How many points are we out now?
U gotta figure that McCabe & Pysyk will continue to get better
And Lehner is looking good (Ullmark did too)
Plus, I expect us to be better offensively as well.
Not only do I see more from Sam & Jack, I think Kane, Ennis & Girgensons will all score more.

I don't really see how we can't be better
Minimum just miss the playoffs
Most likely, a wild card team
- jdfitz77

This is not a knock on Lehner, but unless you have a top 5 goalie in the league you just never know what you are going to get day in and day out. Lehner has looked great, but it is still too early to tell just how great he can be.

I'd rather have Girgensons than Larsson and it's not even close.

Besides, I think you're overvaluing what Girgensons would get back in a trade. I love the guy, you all know that, but it's already been said here multiple times, he's much more valuable on the team than he is in a a trade.
- HonkFortheGoose

wait i remember us getting a first rounder for a 3rd line C not all that long ago...


Edit: to be fair it was him and a 4th

This is not a knock on Lehner, but unless you have a top 5 goalie in the league you just never know what you are going to get day in and day out. Lehner has looked great, but it is still too early to tell just how great he can be.
- ImThatGuy

If it's true that he's still fighting through pain in that ankle, he's looked really good (save for the Florida game Tuesday). Especially since it was said that he's in a ton of pain by the end of each game. In some of those games, he had to come up BIG in the 3rd period. The guy is a battler. I like what I've seen so far. But even with top goalies you never know.

Thats exactly why I can't even understand why people are already talking about trading guys like Ennis, Girgs, etc.

They've both had tough years but are usually very consistent/reliable guys.

I say, have a little patience, we'll get one last good pick this draft, and everyone will enter next season not needing to redevelop the chemistry it's taken half a season to develop. If we're at this same point next season come this time, maybe it time to start the trade talk, but it's not like we've lost anything, they're definitely not going to have LESS value then since they don't have much now, which reflects a season fraught with injury.
- nikel

Exactly. This couldn't be a worse time to trade Ennis or girgensons. Both of their values are at an all time low. I want them both on this team next season. Im just hoping we sneak away with another top pick like you said and look forward to next season.

I really don't think the return you get for Girgensons is all that much better than what you'd get for Larsson. From an outsiders perspective, their values aren't all that different, IMO.
- HonkFortheGoose

I never bought into that outsiders perspective thing. You are what you are worth.

What you said would lead me to believe that he is being slightly overrated here. Which is common among all fan bases.


I also want to clear up that I do not hate nor need Z traded. I just think that exploring that option for a top 4 d-man would help this team more in the long run.

wait i remember us getting a first rounder for a 3rd line C not all that long ago...


Edit: to be fair it was him and a 4th
- Havic3814

That kind of trade wouldn't help us right now. At the time, it made sense. But we're not at that point in the rebuild anymore. If you're moving a guy like Girgensons it's to bring in a guy that's an improvement over him that can help now.

And in case you didn't realize it, Girgensons is the guy we got in the draft because of that trade.

I never bought into that outsiders perspective thing. You are what you are worth.

What you said would lead me to believe that he is being slightly overrated here. Which is common among all fan bases.


I also want to clear up that I do not hate nor need Z traded. I just think that exploring that option for a top 4 d-man would help this team more in the long run.
- ImThatGuy

As a fan of the team, you're opinion isn't as subjective as you'd like it to be. What you'd want for Girgensons is much different than what a fan from say, Anaheim, would be willing to give up for him.

Exactly. This couldn't be a worse time to trade Ennis or girgensons. Both of their values are at an all time low. I want them both on this team next season. Im just hoping we sneak away with another top pick like you said and look forward to next season.
- MCGUIZZY

Someone has to go on the forward ranks.

We will have a log jam at Forward.
We have gaping holes on defense.

That someone has to have value to get back what we need. That leads me to believe it is Ennis or Girgensons.

Exactly. This couldn't be a worse time to trade Ennis or girgensons. Both of their values are at an all time low. I want them both on this team next season. Im just hoping we sneak away with another top pick like you said and look forward to next season.
- MCGUIZZY

I really feel it's our draft year (hell the draft is in Buffalo), I'd like nothing more than have us finish like 26th.....have Leafs finish 30th, yet watch us win the draft.

.....oh, and have the Oil win the #2 spot!!! Haha

That kind of trade wouldn't help us right now. At the time, it made sense. But we're not at that point in the rebuild anymore. If you're moving a guy like Girgensons it's to bring in a guy that's an improvement over him that can help now.

And in case you didn't realize it, Girgensons is the guy we got in the draft because of that trade.
- HonkFortheGoose

how would a 1st rounder not help us? I understand they are not all NHL ready out of the box but if you get a RW that only needs a year or so in the minors or use that first in combination with other picks to get someone elses 1st to grab an NHL ready player i say it helps over having an extra center that we can't properly utilize with our current make up

As a fan of the team, you're opinion isn't as subjective as you'd like it to be. What you'd want for Girgensons is much different than what a fan from say, Anaheim, would be willing to give up for him.
- HonkFortheGoose

That happens across every fan base. Heck just the other day an Edmonton fan posed a trade that involved Eberle+ for Risto.


I also think that it happens with every GM as well. They want to get the most out of every player in a trade. The GM's perceived value of their player probably differs a lot from the other 29 GM's

Anyone have the lines for tonights game?

Anyone have the lines for tonights game?
- Buffalo--Sabres

Dealer won't be around till after 5.

Gathering hookers

how would a 1st rounder not help us? I understand they are not all NHL ready out of the box but if you get a RW that only needs a year or so in the minors or use that first in combination with other picks to get someone elses 1st to grab an NHL ready player i say it helps over having an extra center that we can't properly utilize with our current make up
- Havic3814

You're not getting a 1st rounder that's going to be in the top half of the draft. Any of the guys that go in the bottom half are guys that typically still need the rest of their Jr career and most likely a bit of AHL time. They're years away from making an impact.

If I'm trading Girgensons, it has to be a guy that plugs a hole for us NOW, not in 3-4 years.

Dealer won't be around till after 5
- cabin

I can't wait. I guess this rat poison will have to do.

how would a 1st rounder not help us? I understand they are not all NHL ready out of the box but if you get a RW that only needs a year or so in the minors or use that first in combination with other picks to get someone elses 1st to grab an NHL ready player i say it helps over having an extra center that we can't properly utilize with our current make up
- Havic3814

Sabres are in a weird spot where they have to build for now and they have to re-stock the cupboards.

A first round pick helps us with one, but not the other.

I guess it all depends on what you are looking to accomplish.

You're not getting a 1st rounder that's going to be in the top half of the draft. Any of the guys that go in the bottom half are guys that typically still need the rest of their Jr career and most likely a bit of AHL time. They're years away from making an impact.

If I'm trading Girgensons, it has to be a guy that plugs a hole for us NOW, not in 3-4 years.
- HonkFortheGoose

girgens, mcginn and 2 thirds for fowler


would you do it?

That happens across every fan base. Heck just the other day an Edmonton fan posed a trade that involved Eberle+ for Risto.


I also think that it happens with every GM as well. They want to get the most out of every player in a trade. The GM's perceived value of their player probably differs a lot from the other 29 GM's
- ImThatGuy

This was my exact point. One GMs perceived value of a guy is probably much different than another's. I can bet that Murray would have to be pretty blown away by an offer to consider moving Girgensons, where I think he'd be much more open to moving Larsson for a much lesser return. If you look at it from the other GMs perspective, they'd probaby give up a small bit more for Girgs than Larsson, but I don't think there's as big of a gap between what the other 29 GMs perceive the values of Girgensons and Larsson to be.

girgens, mcginn and 2 thirds for fowler


would you do it?
- homiedclown

I think it is a bit steep. I would try to do without the picks, but understand the process.

That said I would have to think long and hard about saying no.

girgens, mcginn and 2 thirds for fowler


would you do it?
- homiedclown

No.

I think that's an over payment.

You're not getting a 1st rounder that's going to be in the top half of the draft. Any of the guys that go in the bottom half are guys that typically still need the rest of their Jr career and most likely a bit of AHL time. They're years away from making an impact.

If I'm trading Girgensons, it has to be a guy that plugs a hole for us NOW, not in 3-4 years.
- HonkFortheGoose

One idea that really piqued my interest is Burakvosky. This was a while ago when he too was stuck in the bottom 6. The idea being that they'd keep Johansson and move Burakovsky for someone like Girgensons (offensive upside, great defensively). With Burakovsky in the top 6 now I can't see it happening but that's the kind of deal I think Girgensons could get. Otherwise his value in terms of trading him for established NHL talent is probably a lot lower than most people think.

I really feel it's our draft year (hell the draft is in Buffalo), I'd like nothing more than have us finish like 26th.....have Leafs finish 30th, yet watch us win the draft.

.....oh, and have the Oil win the #2 spot!!! Haha
- nikel

I want to see the Oil finish as far back as possible even if that means Toronto gets a better player. Their refusal to address their defense issue has gone far too long and should not be rewarded yet again.

I think it is a bit steep. I would try to do without the picks, but understand the process.

That said I would have to think long and hard about saying no.
- ImThatGuy

I haven't seen Fowler too much recently, but he's always been a guy I've liked. I just feel like that's an awfully big package for him. I wouldn't just initially say no, but I think that's eventually where I'd end up.

You're not getting a 1st rounder that's going to be in the top half of the draft. Any of the guys that go in the bottom half are guys that typically still need the rest of their Jr career and most likely a bit of AHL time. They're years away from making an impact.

If I'm trading Girgensons, it has to be a guy that plugs a hole for us NOW, not in 3-4 years.
- HonkFortheGoose

I like Z a lot and last year was amazing... but noted that was on top line playing top minutes all the time with this roster currently hes never going to play there again... he may not mind playing the grinder line but thats going to keep production down and having him on the injury list often... I say get what you can for him before he walks away

One idea that really piqued my interest is Burakvosky. This was a while ago when he too was stuck in the bottom 6. The idea being that they'd keep Johansson and move Burakovsky for someone like Girgensons (offensive upside, great defensively). With Burakovsky in the top 6 now I can't see it happening but that's the kind of deal I think Girgensons could get. Otherwise his value in terms of trading him for established NHL talent is probably a lot lower than most people think.
- Sabresfan-365

I agree. I have to say, this whole thing kind of amuses me. I'm a huge Girgensons fan, yet I'm one of the ones on here saying his value isn't as high in a trade as others around here think it is.