they had a few in the era of ted Nolan, but not even close to the long line of cheapshot artists dating back to the broadstreet bullies...just recently gudas was heir to rinaldo who took over for carcillo...

and the band played on
- Michael Pachla

To me, the Flyers always had fighters, but aside from Ken Linsman in the 80s, I don't know how many Rinaldo-type players they had throughout the 90s and early 00's. For the record, I never liked Rinaldo or Carcillo, and am souring on Gudas quickly.

Edit: Not saying they didn't have them, just can't think of any.

agreed but need to edit a bit: Scott wasn't a goon, just a pretty big and farily dominant pugilist and andre peters wasn't a goon either...he dreamed of being a fighter and played the part fairly well

appreciate the post
- Michael Pachla

Im not debating that. I have a totally different opinion on that.

Games are 60 minutes (at least) long regardless of the score. A few years ago I was pretty much the only Flyers fan that wasnt fuming when Briere got trucked with under a minute to go in the last game of the season vs the Pens.

You dont want Briere getting hit in that situation... dont put him on the ice. That was a multi-goal differential as well. Either hit or dont.

Another hit that I always go back to is the Campbell-Umberger hit. You guys replayed that hit on the jumbotron OVER AND OVER while he layed on the ice.

Great hit. Unfortunate that he had his head down, but Campbell stepped up and crushed him. poop happens.
- jak521

Difference between that hit and this one.

One was a suicide pass. The other was a player battling with another and being picked off by a third man in.

IF Voracek is battling one of our d-men and gets put in a vulnerable position then Foligno comes in and crushes him. Flyers fans would rightfully so be in a rage.

He could have just stood him up, he chose to go for the knockout.

They had some wild games in the mid 90s.
- jmatchett383

The playoff series in what... 08?? or 09?? That was BRUTAL.

It was late hit after late it.. and cheap shot.. after cheap shot.

If I remember right we lost Pommer, Connolly, and Roy in that series due to jack wagon hits.

Myers even pulled up his skirt and laid some big hits that series too.

To me, the Flyers always had fighters, but aside from Ken Linsman in the 80s, I don't know how many Rinaldo-type players they had throughout the 90s and early 00's. For the record, I never liked Rinaldo or Carcillo, and am souring on Gudas quickly.

Edit: Not saying they didn't have them, just can't think of any.
- jmatchett383

dude, the flyboys spanked the sabres last night, plain and simple...too bad that hit was a part of it

true...but the fact that vandevelde was engaged with, and leaning on, a hunched over and reaching catenacci makes it basically a third man in...he didn't need to do any of the things you mentioned to snap blast catenacci's head with brute force...it was bushleague, plain and simple
- Michael Pachla

There is no such thing as a third man in on a hit.

Let me just play devils advocate for a second. I will also preface this by saying I am not a Gudas fan. He is literally a cave man.

However, Gudas excels in one aspect.. hitting. He is a game changing hitter, seriously. So say he doesnt hit Catenacci there, and Catenacci manages to fight of VDV and goes on to score (unlikely but who knows)... We (flyers fans) would be screaming that he didnt take the body.

Catenacci needs to know that you cant drop your head in the middle of the neutral zone with the puck on his stick. Its literally the biggest no-no in hockey. I watched -furiously- as Lindros did it time and again. Guy step up and hit.. especially certain players. Gudas crushed him. It was brutal, but Catenacci put himself in that spot by reaching back for the puck.

Gudas didnt leap like most players do. He didnt pick his head ala Cooke. He didnt elbow or even follow through. He went body through the body (and head) of Catenacci. Its brutal but those hits happen. See: Umberger

I consider scott and peters in the "enforcer" role as they're on the ice for a limited time...if I recall correctly, they never laid out a dirty hit on an unsuspecting player...the people they hit (or were hit by in the case of peters) were fully expecting what was coming
- Michael Pachla

Eriksson disagrees

The playoff series in what... 08?? or 09?? That was BRUTAL.

It was late hit after late it.. and cheap shot.. after cheap shot.

If I remember right we lost Pommer, Connolly, and Roy in that series due to jack wagon hits.

Myers even pulled up his skirt and laid some big hits that series too.
- JVince11

It was 10/11, I believe. I think that had Richard's blatant elbow on Kaleta that should have been a suspension.

- sbroads24

yeah...semantics...plain and simple he only fought those in his weightclass (or those who foolishly dropped the gloves) and to my knowledge he never hit an unsuspecting player with a cheap shot

dude, the flyboys spanked the sabres last night, plain and simple...too bad that hit was a part of it
- Michael Pachla

They did, and I agree it sucks the hit was a part of it. But really, I'm curious to who these "goons" (not enforcers) were that you speak of from, let's say, 1991-2005, a 15-year span.

There is no such thing as a third man in on a hit.

Let me just play devils advocate for a second. I will also preface this by saying I am not a Gudas fan. He is literally a cave man.

However, Gudas excels in one aspect.. hitting. He is a game changing hitter, seriously. So say he doesnt hit Catenacci there, and Catenacci manages to fight of VDV and goes on to score (unlikely but who knows)... We (flyers fans) would be screaming that he didnt take the body.

Catenacci needs to know that you cant drop your head in the middle of the neutral zone with the puck on his stick. Its literally the biggest no-no in hockey. I watched -furiously- as Lindros did it time and again. Guy step up and hit.. especially certain players. Gudas crushed him. It was brutal, but Catenacci put himself in that spot by reaching back for the puck.

Gudas didnt leap like most players do. He didnt pick his head ala Cooke. He didnt elbow or even follow through. He went body through the body (and head) of Catenacci. Its brutal but those hits happen. See: Umberger
- jak521

Cat didn't lower his head though. he got knocked off balance in a battle and was in a vulnerable position.

Again, Umberger was a suicide pass that he was basically skating forward with his head turned backwards.

It was not dirty, but it was unnecessary.

Again, swith the roles and put Ghost in that scenario, where he is the one getting drilled. its not a great feeling.

There was nothing to prove from Gudas. He didnt have to truck through him either. He chose to do that.

yeah...semantics...plain and simple he only fought those in his weightclass (or those who foolishly dropped the gloves) and to my knowledge he never hit an unsuspecting player with a cheap shot
- Michael Pachla

I think Loui Eriksson may disagree with you.

Wow, just wow. This was going to be exactly my post. Add John Scott. I would say Buffalo is known for goons too, but honestly they are more known for having the dirtiest of the dirty players in the league.

Hopefully Gudas gets suspended. Serious hack writing skills.
- Glak18

My God, Philly and Boston are the Kings of Goons and dirty players. Calling any other team to be in the same league with these to franchises is just delusional.

There is no such thing as a third man in on a hit.

Let me just play devils advocate for a second. I will also preface this by saying I am not a Gudas fan. He is literally a cave man.

However, Gudas excels in one aspect.. hitting. He is a game changing hitter, seriously. So say he doesnt hit Catenacci there, and Catenacci manages to fight of VDV and goes on to score (unlikely but who knows)... We (flyers fans) would be screaming that he didnt take the body.

Catenacci needs to know that you cant drop your head in the middle of the neutral zone with the puck on his stick. Its literally the biggest no-no in hockey. I watched -furiously- as Lindros did it time and again. Guy step up and hit.. especially certain players. Gudas crushed him. It was brutal, but Catenacci put himself in that spot by reaching back for the puck.

Gudas didnt leap like most players do. He didnt pick his head ala Cooke. He didnt elbow or even follow through. He went body through the body (and head) of Catenacci. Its brutal but those hits happen. See: Umberger
- jak521

the third man in is in reference to catenacci being already engaged with vdv...and as to your devils advocate point?

imo, most flyers fans, if they were still watching with any interest would've said, "meh, doesn't matter anyway"

Difference between that hit and this one.

One was a suicide pass. The other was a player battling with another and being picked off by a third man in.

IF Voracek is battling one of our d-men and gets put in a vulnerable position then Foligno comes in and crushes him. Flyers fans would rightfully so be in a rage.

He could have just stood him up, he chose to go for the knockout.
- ImThatGuy

I dont know how you just stand a guy up there. You either hit him or dont. Its not illegal to hit a guy who is entwined with another guy. Hell, if Catenacci doesnt put his head down there, guess what, he still gets friggin creamed. Or say Gudas does see at the last second that Catenacci is in a bad spot.. goes to slide by and clips his head.. That is even worse. The glancing shots strictly to the head are the worst in the sport.

PS: How is Catenacci? Hadnt heard an update.

To me, the Flyers always had fighters, but aside from Ken Linsman in the 80s, I don't know how many Rinaldo-type players they had throughout the 90s and early 00's. For the record, I never liked Rinaldo or Carcillo, and am souring on Gudas quickly.

Edit: Not saying they didn't have them, just can't think of any.
- jmatchett383

Rinaldo and Carcillo for sure.

Steve Downie, Jody Shelley, Sestito, Asham, Cote, Gratton, and Eager come to mind too.

the third man in is in reference to catenacci being already engaged with vdv...and as to your devils advocate point?

imo, most flyers fans, if they were still watching with any interest would've said, "meh, doesn't matter anyway"
- Michael Pachla

Youre right... it might not matter to a fan, but as a player it would matter to me if I passed up on a checking opportunity and the guy went on to score. It might matter to my coach.

Just because he was engaged with VDV doesnt mean he is not legally eligible to be hit. Third man in is only a fighting rule.

They did, and I agree it sucks the hit was a part of it. But really, I'm curious to who these "goons" (not enforcers) were that you speak of from, let's say, 1991-2005, a 15-year span.
- jmatchett383

I looked back to 2006 and posted.

I dont know how you just stand a guy up there. You either hit him or dont. Its not illegal to hit a guy who is entwined with another guy. Hell, if Catenacci doesnt put his head down there, guess what, he still gets friggin creamed. Or say Gudas does see at the last second that Catenacci is in a bad spot.. goes to slide by and clips his head.. That is even worse. The glancing shots strictly to the head are the worst in the sport.

PS: How is Catenacci? Hadnt heard an update.
- jak521

You hold position and dont line him up and take several strides to gain speed. That is the difference between standing him up and running through him.

No update yet.

I will say that Gudas is going to earn a reputation, and Flyers fans wont like it because it will be an eye for an eye scenario. That is just how hockey is.

Rinaldo and Carcillo for sure.

Steve Downie, Jordan Shelley, Sestito, Asham, Cote, Gratton, and Eager come to mine too.
- JVince11

Yes....they had a few in the latter parts of the 00s for sure, and I'm happy they're gone. But Jody Shelley, Sestito, Asham, Cote, and Eager were all fighters more than cheap shot artists like Rinaldo and Carcillo. Not sure about Chris Gratton, he was kind of a nothing here.

I looked back to 2006 and posted.
- JVince11

None of Downie, Shelley, Sestito, Asham, or Cote were on the team prior to 2006. And again, they were more fighters than cheap-shot artists, at least during their times here.

Youre right... it might not matter to a fan, but as a player it would matter to me if I passed up on a checking opportunity and the guy went on to score. It might matter to my coach.

Just because he was engaged with VDV doesnt mean he is not legally eligible to be hit. Third man in is only a fighting rule.
- jak521

It is just multiplied to a team like Buffalo this year and right now..

We don't have Girgensons or Ennis in our top 6. Moulson is a clown on our 4th line.

Losing ANOTHER guy... it just makes it worse. Magnifies it all.

None of Downie, Shelley, Sestito, Asham, or Cote were on the team prior to 2006.
- jmatchett383

I didn't say he was.... I said I looked back to 2006. Meaning from then to now.

They were all complete bumholes on the ice and that was the reason why they got their paychecks... it was to be bumholes on the ice.

that is a useless cheap shot artist. Play minimal minutes but racks up over 200 PIMs.

Rinaldo and Carcillo for sure.

Steve Downie, Jordan Shelley, Sestito, Asham, Cote, Gratton, and Eager come to mine too.
- JVince11

We could play this game all day.

Shelley, Cote were strictly fighters.

Downie was a head case.

Asham was actually a very solid player.


Every org has guys who tip toe the line. Every org has guys that fight.

Rob Ray, Barnaby, Peeters, Playfair, the garden gnome.

None of Downie, Shelley, Sestito, Asham, or Cote were on the team prior to 2006. And again, they were more fighters than cheap-shot artists, at least during their times here.
- jmatchett383

All you need to do is google Sabres Flyers brawl and you will hear names and go yup. we had that guy on the team.