Zadorov is a headache
Kane is misunderstood
- sbroads24

Maybe im wrong, but who says that?

No, im not dreaming. A player with top line offensive talent would be a wondrous thing to be able to ride shotgun with eichel. Which is why i want to get the highest pick possible again this year.

He is what 21? Lots of time for him to develop still but because there has been a mass influx of 18 and 19 year olds who have come in and been very good over the last few years i guess he is out of time right?

Reinhart is a mediocre skater and i would say pure hockey skill wise they are on the same page. Grigo probably has a better shot.
- ieetbred

They aren't even I'm the same universe. You can't think they are. I had high hopes for Grigs as well. He isn't who we wanted him to be and I don't thinke ever will be.

No, im not dreaming. A player with top line offensive talent would be a wondrous thing to be able to ride shotgun with eichel. Which is why i want to get the highest pick possible again this year.

He is what 21? Lots of time for him to develop still but because there has been a mass influx of 18 and 19 year olds who have come in and been very good over the last few years i guess he is out of time right?

Reinhart is a mediocre skater and i would say pure hockey skill wise they are on the same page. Grigo probably has a better shot.
- ieetbred

as much as it sucks for you guys, Honestly I don't think Grigs would have ever gave a full effort being part of the Sabres Org, I think he got tired of the jerking around up and down treatment to start his career.

As soon as he was traded, everything that was said about him about attitude, effort, etc didn't seem to be true. Roy didn't like his skating, told him to get a power skating coach this summer, he did that. He signed a 600k deal to do whatever he could to help the team, he did that. Healthy scratches, 4th line minutes, he said he believed in Patrick and his plan for him to develop his 2 way play.

Not sure if he ever lives up to his draft potential, but he seems to want to give it more an effort with the Avs, working with Roy, kid seems happy to know hes part of a plan here

I was upset they traded both, same with armia/lemieux in the kane deal. Ideally would have liked to keep 1 (to be fair i thought less of O'Reilly at the time).
- Sabresfan-365

Armia and Grigs are the same guy to me. Some talent, not a top 6 guy on a good team.

They aren't even I'm the same universe. You can't think they are. I had high hopes for Grigs as well. He isn't who we wanted him to be and I don't thinke ever will be.
- Slump Buster

Overall hockey players, no.

Pure hockey ability with the puck. Absolutely.

They aren't even I'm the same universe. You can't think they are. I had high hopes for Grigs as well. He isn't who we wanted him to be and I don't thinke ever will be.
- Slump Buster

You seem to think Reinhart is better than he actually is. He's gotten some very fortunate bounces this year. He has a long way to go to be considered elite

He is 2 years away from khl
- Slump Buster

There's not even going to be a KHL in 2 years.

as much as it sucks for you guys, Honestly I don't think Grigs would have ever gave a full effort being part of the Sabres Org, I think he got tired of the jerking around up and down treatment to start his career.

As soon as he was traded, everything that was said about him about attitude, effort, etc didn't seem to be true. Roy didn't like his skating, told him to get a power skating coach this summer, he did that. He signed a 600k deal to do whatever he could to help the team, he did that. Healthy scratches, 4th line minutes, he said he believed in Patrick and his plan for him to develop his 2 way play.

Not sure if he ever lives up to his draft potential, but he seems to want to give it more an effort with the Avs, working with Roy, kid seems happy to know hes part of a plan here
- DDM-Coga

His last 3 games in a row he's made very nice plays to set up goals. He's coming along

as much as it sucks for you guys, Honestly I don't think Grigs would have ever gave a full effort being part of the Sabres Org, I think he got tired of the jerking around up and down treatment to start his career.

As soon as he was traded, everything that was said about him about attitude, effort, etc didn't seem to be true. Roy didn't like his skating, told him to get a power skating coach this summer, he did that. He signed a 600k deal to do whatever he could to help the team, he did that. Healthy scratches, 4th line minutes, he said he believed in Patrick and his plan for him to develop his 2 way play.

Not sure if he ever lives up to his draft potential, but he seems to want to give it more an effort with the Avs, working with Roy, kid seems happy to know hes part of a plan here
- DDM-Coga

I think he got a raw deal from the media and fans here too. In his first year there was definitely some issues with attitude and effort. After that he did and said all the right things as far as im aware of and it never got him a decent shot here.

It was absolutely a good thing for him to get a fresh start.

Armia and Grigs are the same guy to me. Some talent, not a top 6 guy on a good team.
- Slump Buster

This is where Advance stats don't really make sense to me, but it was pointed out the other day on twitter that Grigorenko has a better 5v5 p60 than O'Reilly

Maybe im wrong, but who says that?
- ieetbred

Lots of people said that after we dealt him. Said that Murray thought he was a headache

I think he got a raw deal from the media and fans here too. In his first year there was definitely some issues with attitude and effort. After that he did and said all the right things as far as im aware of and it never got him a decent shot here.

It was absolutely a good thing for him to get a fresh start.
- ieetbred

I say the same thing with ROR, he just needed a fresh start and get away from a toxic unhealthy situation bw him and management.

We will never know what Mgmt/Coaches said to Grigo when he entered the league, same thing with ROR when the whole captain thing came up and the contract talks.

Sometimes guys just need to go to a place that they know they are part of a plan and not just a guy on a roster.

This is where Advance stats don't really make sense to me, but it was pointed out the other day on twitter that Grigorenko has a better 5v5 p60 than O'Reilly
- DDM-Coga

The fact that he's played like 350 minutes less probably helps.

Lots of people said that after we dealt him. Said that Murray thought he was a headache
- sbroads24

Well he may have been, who knows. Alot of 19 year olds are

Kane im sure is a headache too but i dont even care. If he is producing he can do whatever he wants so long as he doesnt make a habit of getting suspended for off the ice poop

Well he may have been, who knows. Alot of 19 year olds are

Kane im sure is a headache too but i dont even care. If he is producing he can do whatever he wants so long as he doesnt make a habit of getting suspended for off the ice poop
- ieetbred

My point is that we will defend our player, but slander the guy we moved. Lots of fans do it

The fact that he's played like 350 minutes less probably helps.
- Sabresfan-365

I know its regarding ice time, but just funny that stat nerds can pull that up and have a long battle over it...its just a random number based on some in arena stat takers.

I say the same thing with ROR, he just needed a fresh start and get away from a toxic unhealthy situation bw him and management.

We will never know what Mgmt/Coaches said to Grigo when he entered the league, same thing with ROR when the whole captain thing came up and the contract talks.

Sometimes guys just need to go to a place that they know they are part of a plan and not just a guy on a roster.
- DDM-Coga

I would agree with that to an extent. To be fair here oreilly looks to be someone who has the ability to be part of the plan, whereas im fairly confident in saying grigo will always be a guy on the roster, not that its a bad thing.

Neither here nor there though because the fresh start factor is equal for both.

you should see tonights game winning goal, picks PKs pocket, and sweet pass for the win
- DDM-Coga

Hey, hey, everyone makes good plays every once in a while. Doesn't mean he's any good.

I would agree with that to an extent. To be fair here oreilly looks to be someone who has the ability to be part of the plan, whereas im fairly confident in saying grigo will always be a guy on the roster, not that its a bad thing.

Neither here nor there though because the fresh start factor is equal for both.
- ieetbred

oh I agree, not saying Grigo is part of a long term core or something. In RORs case I think thats what he needed, confidence that he was part of the core and not just the 4th fiddle behind MacK, Dutch, and Landy.

Grigo just needed to know he is part of the team and not just glorified trade bait and that the team has a plan to develop him

Hey, hey, everyone makes good plays every once in a while. Doesn't mean he's any good.
- Wetbandit1

I stand by his new name Sexorenko

My point is that we will defend our player, but slander the guy we moved. Lots of fans do it
- sbroads24

Oh i agree, i see it in here everyday.

Hell it doesnt even have to be someone that was ever on our roster. Mcdavid seems to get alot of undervaluation around these parts. If it isnt undervaluing it just butthurt when people complain about the media hype, knowing just how close we were to having him ourselves.

oh I agree, not saying Grigo is part of a long term core or something. In RORs case I think thats what he needed, confidence that he was part of the core and not just the 4th fiddle behind MacK, Dutch, and Landy.

Grigo just needed to know he is part of the team and not just glorified trade bait and that the team has a plan to develop him
- DDM-Coga

I had always wanted him to succeed here. I want him to succeed period. Its too bad he came into our organization at such a tumultuous time.

A hater? No. You proved my point - he isn't a 1c or 2con a good team. Can he play in the league? Sure, why not. His ceiling is 'serviceable'. Nobody blinked when he was traded. I hope he pans out but I don't see it.
- Slump Buster

Just flat out not true. Or at least extremely skewed. We got ROR. Who I'd rather have over Grigorenko, because A) he's a complete player whereas Grigo is a bit one-dimensional, which is fine, Ovechkin is one-dimensional, but B) we were getting Eichel and already had Reinhart, so it's not like we were hurting at center.

I'm not sure anyone is trying to say he's a "good" player right now. Just that he's extremely skilled, which was the thing I said in response to JVince's post about the guy in Denver who said he believe's Grigo will be a top flight 2C.

How do you draft a guy in the first round,have him stay with the big club and never playhim on the top line. He played on the 4 th line with a long list of sabre junk we put on there. do you know why,because for all these years we had darcy REGIER and lindy ruff. How are the Regier core players doing vanek,roy,pominville,miller and all the other junk they held onto. Now makarov is upset with the organization. We have never developed a great player in this organization
- Buffalo39

That's one of the dumbest things I've heard in a while on here. They're getting old, they were extremely good players in their prime. Vanek still has it. 2 years ago he scored 27G and 68 points for 3 different teams which is a pretty good feat in and of itself, last year he had 21 and 52 and this year he has 15 and 33 which is 3rd for the Wild and would be good for 3rd on the Sabres this year. And he'll probably get 20 again this year. This is a guy who, in his entire career, has never failed to score at least 20 goals a season, even in a shortened season where he only played 38 games.

As for the second main point.

Ok, here goes:

Perrault
Gare
Housley
Turgeon
Martin
Mogilny
Andreychuk
Campbell
Miller
Vanek

That's just what I can think of in about as fast as it takes to type those names, but I think it more than illustrates my point.

I had always wanted him to succeed here. I want him to succeed period. Its too bad he came into our organization at such a tumultuous time.
- ieetbred

It was a tumultuous time for sure, but I think more than anything he was a guy stuck between two leagues when he really belonged in a third, but couldn't because of a stupid transfer agreement.