How did the Bennett thing work then? He took a one year contract pay cut. I don't doubt you guys are right, I'm just trying to figure out the Bennett situation now. Did he go up to JR and say "Listen. I can't stay healthy. Dock me 100k?" I don't care how good of a guy or how self aware/self deprecating you are, no one would do that.
- Victoro311

It might have been a case where they weren't going to qualify him at all & his agent said "look kid, nobody's gonna pay you even this much on the open market with your track record. So sign for less"

teams & players discuss this ahead of time & have an understanding of "we will give you a multi-year deal for less than your current deal, but we will extend the QO in the meantime to maintain our RFA control. If you sign it, we'll honor it but deal you at the first opportunity or not qualify you again. You'll be looking for work on the street & probably get low-balled by just about everyone after teams find out you pulled that crap with us with signing a deal that you knew was only made for RFA control reasons". It's an unspoken part of the negotiating process. Teams tender qualifying offers with regularity that are only for the purpose of maintaining RFA control only, with absolutely no chance of that offer being what is actually signed at the end of the day.

Most pllayers want years on their deal. They want certainty down the line. Sure, they'll take 3.9 now, but if they can get 9 for the next 3, they'll take that instead because it gives them more certainty. They realize how fragile their careers are. Especially guys that don't have a solid track record that'll give teams confidence in taking a chance if they have a bad year. They want to know that they'll still be getting paid 3 or 4 or 6 years from now. Even if they get hurt & can't play anymore. So they trade years for AAV all the time. (this obviously excludes the superstars that have made probably more than 20 ore 30M or so over their careers. Their priorities change)
- ScienceJesus

do you have some examples of players who turned down a high QO in order to sign a longer deal with lower AAV? Not trying to call you out but I just don't remember any.

Alts are against the rules so...no
- RAGSareDANGERus

And here I thought you were hiding from us

do you have some examples of players who turned down a high QO in order to sign a longer deal with lower AAV? Not trying to call you out but I just don't remember any.
- RAGSareDANGERus

Schultz would sign a 3.9 QO in 10 seconds. We can not QO him to work out a long-term deal. What we can do is work out a lower offer before he's UFA. If he signs a QO then Schultz would be untradable until the middle of next season and that is only if he significantly improves his value.

The high QO essentially makes him a UFA. On the open market I don't think anyone would offer him a 3 year $9 deal at this point. I mean some teams might see him as a rehabilitation candidate and want to take that bet, but his current performance level is sub 2 per year. I would consider offering him a 3 year $6 deal, but I doubt he would accept that. Its better for him to take a 1 year prove it contract outside of Edmonton and see if he can turn himself into a top 4 d and get paid like that.

Schultz would sign a 3.9 QO in 10 seconds. We can not QO him to work out a long-term deal. What we can do is work out a lower offer before he's UFA. If he signs a QO then Schultz would be untradable until the middle of next season and that is only if he significantly improves his value.

The high QO essentially makes him a UFA. On the open market I don't think anyone would offer him a 3 year $9 deal at this point. I mean some teams might see him as a rehabilitation candidate and want to take that bet, but his current performance level is sub 2 per year. I would consider offering him a 3 year $6 deal, but I doubt he would accept that. Its better for him to take a 1 year prove it contract outside of Edmonton and see if he can turn himself into a top 4 d and get paid like that.
- sditulli

Furthermore Schultz has already made a ton of money because Edmonton overpaid him. So locking in a 3 year 6 contract doesn't make sense for him. Better to try and rehabilitate and then sign a much higher contract.

do you have some examples of players who turned down a high QO in order to sign a longer deal with lower AAV? Not trying to call you out but I just don't remember any.
- RAGSareDANGERus

I can't for certain. I have vague recollections of it happening, but I can't for certain cite a specific example.

I remember the Pens not qualifying TK & letting him go to UFA but then signing him as an RFA to avoid arbitration back in 2011. But that was because of the arbitration. Not because his RFA offer was so high.

But I can't cite a specific example off the top of my head of a team giving a player a QO that was only for RFA rights purposes while working out a multi-year contract that had a lower AAV.

do you have some examples of players who turned down a high QO in order to sign a longer deal with lower AAV? Not trying to call you out but I just don't remember any.
- RAGSareDANGERus

It just makes no sense for Schultz to turn down a high QO when his value is so low right now. I mean a good team contract that offers a ton of upside is like a 3 year $6 contract. Why would you turn down a 1 year 3.9 if your long-term is 3/6. He could fail this year and still probably find someone will to pay him $1 a year for the next 2 years. So he would sign the QO and then hope his value improves since the downside is the same thing as getting vet minimum levels the following years.

And here I thought you were hiding from us
- Victoro311

I don't hide yo

It just makes no sense for Schultz to turn down a high QO when his value is so low right now. I mean a good team contract that offers a ton of upside is like a 3 year $6 contract. Why would you turn down a 1 year 3.9 if your long-term is 3/6. He could fail this year and still probably find someone will to pay him $1 a year for the next 2 years. So he would sign the QO and then hope his value improves since the downside is the same thing as getting vet minimum levels the following years.
- sditulli

cuz money ain't everything. he don't want to play for a poop team like edmonton again so he will take a pay cut and sign with pen or any other contender and prove himself.

I can't for certain. I have vague recollections of it happening, but I can't for certain cite a specific example.

I remember the Pens not qualifying TK & letting him go to UFA but then signing him as an RFA to avoid arbitration back in 2011. But that was because of the arbitration. Not because his RFA offer was so high.

But I can't cite a specific example off the top of my head of a team giving a player a QO that was only for RFA rights purposes while working out a multi-year contract that had a lower AAV.
- ScienceJesus

I just don't think it's happened before where a player turns down a high QO to sign a deal with a significantly lower AAV

It just makes no sense for Schultz to turn down a high QO when his value is so low right now. I mean a good team contract that offers a ton of upside is like a 3 year $6 contract. Why would you turn down a 1 year 3.9 if your long-term is 3/6. He could fail this year and still probably find someone will to pay him $1 a year for the next 2 years. So he would sign the QO and then hope his value improves since the downside is the same thing as getting vet minimum levels the following years.
- sditulli

Agreed. He will sign his QO if tendered.

Furthermore Schultz has already made a ton of money because Edmonton overpaid him. So locking in a 3 year 6 contract doesn't make sense for him. Better to try and rehabilitate and then sign a much higher contract.
- sditulli

With a significantly higher tax rate & a almost worthless Canadian dollar. He's made about $15M. Players are paid based on USD exchange rates but Canadians have to convert that. Between the downturn in the exchange rate & the taxes, even if he only paid normal Canadian taxes for his income level & saved all of his money, he's probably only got about 5M USD today. That's without any cost of living or expenses removed for the last 4 years. If he lived modestly & didn't make any poor investments, he's probably got a net value of about $1-2M. Not exactly "a ton of money". He's definitely still looking for years. Especially without the volatility of the exchange rate on his bank account balance.

My opinion is he was being asked to do a lot on a bad team. Now he's being asked to do what he does best with a good team in a less stressful scenario. Could pay off big time for us.
- dbell646

I read an interesting article on him. It basically said Edmonton did everything to a young player that you shouldn't do. They rushed him and made him "the guy" the minute he pulled on a jersey. They gave him 6 coaches in 4 years. On top of that, apparently Eakins had a completely moronic defensive system that crushed their D.

I do wonder if it's a good risk considering he might be too damaged to fix quickly and I sure as hell don't see him as a 4 mil player for us next year. It's an interesting situation for the Pens.

cuz money ain't everything. he don't want to play for a poop team like edmonton again so he will take a pay cut and sign with pen or any other contender and prove himself.
- martox

If you don't tender him a QO, he can be free to sign with any team. If Pitt offers him closer to the 1.5M he's likely worth and winning is important to him, why wouldn't he take an additional cut down to like 1.1M to sign with Chicago or LA?

You don't tender him a QO and he walks... That simple imo.

cuz money ain't everything. he don't want to play for a poop team like edmonton again so he will take a pay cut and sign with pen or any other contender and prove himself.
- martox

I agree with this. Its why he would sign the QO extremely fast because its a 1 year contract at a high pay rate on a team that is a good fit for his skill set.

My guess if there is mutual interest in Schultz we either have to offer him term like 3 years $9 or we offer him a 1 year $1 deal. He might accept a 1 year deal with Pittsburgh if he thinks its the right team to rehabilitate his value. The problem with a 1 year deal for Pitt is if he has a good year his value is suddenly 5 years 25/30 so we wouldn't get any of the upside after a 1 year deal.

I wouldn't lock us into a 3/9 deal with Schultz and I don't think he would sign a Cole type contract of 3/6.

With a significantly higher tax rate & a almost worthless Canadian dollar. He's made about $15M. Players are paid based on USD exchange rates but Canadians have to convert that. Between the downturn in the exchange rate & the taxes, even if he only paid normal Canadian taxes for his income level & saved all of his money, he's probably only got about 5M USD today. That's without any cost of living or expenses removed for the last 4 years. Not exactly "a ton of money". He's definitely still looking for years. Especially without the volatility of the exchange rate on his bank account balance.
- ScienceJesus

All players get paid in USD. Even the ones on Canadian teams. Also, players earn their salary on a per-game basis so the money they make on a night they play is taxed at the local tax rate of whatever city/state they're playing in. So even though Canada has higher tax rates, only half of Schultz's salary is taxed that highly. The road games, particularly the ones in America, are taxed lower.

All players get paid in USD. Even the ones on Canadian teams. Also, players earn their salary on a per-game basis so the money they make on a night they play is taxed at the local tax rate of whatever city/state they're playing in. So even though Canada has higher tax rates, only half of Schultz's salary is taxed that highly. The road games, particularly the ones in America, are taxed lower.
- RAGSareDANGERus

They get paid in USD but their bank accounts in Canada are in CAD. So that means that once it got converted from USD to CAD, and the exchange rate tanked (last year) to about 60% of the old 1:1 ratio of about 2012, his bank account lost about 40% of its value. The past year of earnings is the only part that's maintained some of his value (it's still been dropping through that year). In the past year, he's lost 40% of his existing worth.

And that's for the state/prov/local taxes. His federal taxes are still taxed as a citizen of Canada.

Alts are against the rules so...no
- RAGSareDANGERus

All players get paid in USD. Even the ones on Canadian teams. Also, players earn their salary on a per-game basis so the money they make on a night they play is taxed at the local tax rate of whatever city/state they're playing in. So even though Canada has higher tax rates, only half of Schultz's salary is taxed that highly. The road games, particularly the ones in America, are taxed lower.
- RAGSareDANGERus

Even assuming he's taxed at a 50% rate overall he's made 7.5. Exchange rate doesn't matter for the calculations. I don't know if he's paid in CAD or Dollars it doesn't matter. His bank would immediately convert his paycheck to the currency he wants to save in. Stock market has been up so I would assume the bulk of his earnings have ended up in real estate or equities with a bit in bonds. His currency decision for his fixed income portfolio is any ones guess.

If you don't tender him a QO, he can be free to sign with any team. If Pitt offers him closer to the 1.5M he's likely worth and winning is important to him, why wouldn't he take an additional cut down to like 1.1M to sign with Chicago or LA?

You don't tender him a QO and he walks... That simple imo.
- RAGSareDANGERus

$1.5M goes a hell of a lot further in Pittsburgh than $1.1M in LA. Chicago I can see, as with quite a few other teams. Unless he lights it up in Pittsburgh, there really shouldn't be a bidding war for him. I doubt he gets the opportunity to really shine playing third pair, but you never know.

I guess the bottom line is Pittsburgh is going to give him a chance. Also the Pens are in a situation that they are not depending on him to develop to improve their D.

why we talking Math... I'd rather talk Meth

They get paid in USD but their bank accounts in Canada are in CAD. So that means that once it got converted from USD to CAD, and the exchange rate tanked (last year) to about 60% of the old 1:1 ratio of about 2012, his bank account lost about 40% of its value. The past year of earnings is the only part that's maintained some of his value (it's still been dropping through that year). In the past year, he's lost 40% of his existing worth.

And that's for the state/prov/local taxes. His federal taxes are still taxed as a citizen of Canada.
- ScienceJesus

Your a pure troll. You really think he's putting his money in a savings account? Or he even has a Canadian bank account outside of for daily spending. Anyone can open up a bank account with JPM and tell their employer to deposit their paycheck with them and have it in dollar turns. Even major Canadian banks would gladly give you dollar accounts.

In regards to our Schultz debate last evening, Yohe had something really interesting to say.

So Schultz is essentially insurance this season. He'll get spot games down the stretch, but he'll be our 8D once the playoffs start. That said, the FO doesn't see the 3rd they gave up for him as peanuts and acquired him for a reason. They have faith that Gonchar can improve his game and the Pens can sign him to a team friendly contract. If anyone can get through to Justin Schultz, I guess it's Gonchar. I don't have too much faith, but this is probably the best scenario Schultz could find himself in. Sit out the remainder of the season and collect yourself and learn under one of the game's best. Regain your confidence and come out swingin next year
- Victoro311

I dont know if it's Gonchar's coaching ability or Schultz pushing the competition, but Pouliot and Cole have been playing like different players. If Schultz does nothing but merely light a fire under Pouliot (plus provide injury insurance), it could be worth the 3rd rounder.

They get paid in USD but their bank accounts in Canada are in CAD. So that means that once it got converted from USD to CAD, and the exchange rate tanked (last year) to about 60% of the old 1:1 ratio of about 2012, his bank account lost about 40% of its value. The past year of earnings is the only part that's maintained some of his value (it's still been dropping through that year). In the past year, he's lost 40% of his existing worth.

And that's for the state/prov/local taxes. His federal taxes are still taxed as a citizen of Canada.
- ScienceJesus

http://www.scribd.com/mob...72514308/2013-Single-2-5M

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/172514308/2013-Single-2-5M
- RAGSareDANGERus

So edmonton actually the lowest taxed NHL city. He keeps over 60% which is pretty good. So he's been paid $9 million.