I think we're having two different conversations.

Convo #1: Bo has been better in the last 20 games and he will continue to improve.

I agree.

Convo #2: Bo's season has been a disaster. He's been on the ice for 50 goals at even strength so far, and has the worst +/- in the entire league.

Still not sure what's debatable about that, but maybe, like your 2 top-5 picks formula, this is one of those things that we can agree to disagree on
- Ronning4ever

I'm not sure the hysterics crowd or the circle jerk gang will agree with you. I'm afraid you are all alone on this one

I'm not sure the hysterics crowd or the circle jerk gang will agree with you. I'm afraid you are all alone on this one
- CanuckDon

To be fair, phucker would probably agree with him.

Yup, agreed he could turn out well. But in terms of his year not being a disaster: point out another 20 year old with a -30 this year and I'll concede the point (hint - there aren't any).
- Ronning4ever

Compare his minutes played to other 20 yr olds.

The kid is the future leader. Anyone who doesn't see how good h is well no comment

- VANTEL

Anyone who thinks Horvat's season has been a disaster doesn't know how to fully decipher stats and doesn't understand his role within the organization from last year to this year.

Last season he averaged 12 minutes of ice as a fourth line guy, no PP time and no PK time. This season he's averaged over 17 minutes as their primary second line center, due to injury to Sutter.

He's now on the PP & PK, his shot totals are way up, he has 11 PP points as opposed to none, his faceoff % dipped slightly but is still above 50% playing against the other teams best players.

5 on 5 his minutes are way harder than last year, again, if you can't see his growth you're either not looking, you don't know how to see it or you don't want to.

Agree to disagree.
I would not call this season a disaster for Bo. For the team on the whole....well....you have a point.
- dbot

It's funny cause I have the exact opposite take. I think the team has done a lot better than I figured they would at the start, especially given the injuries. If we can stop surrendering 3rd period leads, we'd be in the playoffs. Haven't dug into the stats to see who the biggest culprits for that have been though.

I had hoped that Weber and Bo would improve, that Bartowski would be good and that Vrbata would put up OK numbers.

I worried that Hutton and the D overall would struggle, and that a lot of the rookies and new players like Baertschi would be busts and that the core would keep aging.

D has sucked, core has aged, centre depth is bad, but the young players seem to be developing well. Best yet, If you look at the players letting in goals en masse, more than half of them probably ain't coming back next year, which is a good sign.

#Canucks confirm Edler went on LTI this week. Lots of cap space for Tryamkin. Deal close. Team working on KHL release and visa.
- LeftCoaster

To late lefty, he's been released from his khl contact with an AHL out clause

Anyone who thinks Horvat's season has been a disaster doesn't know how to fully decipher stats and doesn't understand his role within the organization from last year to this year.

Last season he averaged 12 minutes of ice as a fourth line guy, no PP time and no PK time. This season he's averaged over 17 minutes as their primary second line center, due to injury to Sutter.

He's now on the PP & PK, his shot totals are way up, he has 11 PP points as opposed to none, his faceoff % dipped slightly but is still above 50% playing against the other teams best players.

5 on 5 his minutes are way harder than last year, again, if you can't see his growth you're either not looking, you don't know how to see it or you don't want to.
- LeftCoaster

Yeah Bo is abig part of this team and his importance will grow as years go on. He is by far our best rookie

To be fair, phucker would probably agree with him.

- dbot

Phucker won't be back until something bad happens to the team!

It's funny cause I have the exact opposite take. I think the team has done a lot better than I figured they would at the start, especially given the injuries. If we can stop surrendering 3rd period leads, we'd be in the playoffs. Haven't dug into the stats to see who the biggest culprits for that have been though.

I had hoped that Weber and Bo would improve, that Bartowski would be good and that Vrbata would put up OK numbers.

I worried that Hutton and the D overall would struggle, and that a lot of the rookies and new players like Baertschi would be busts and that the core would keep aging.

D has sucked, core has aged, centre depth is bad, but the young players seem to be developing well. Best yet, If you look at the players letting in goals en masse, more than half of them probably ain't coming back next year, which is a good sign.
- Ronning4ever

This reads more like you agree with me.
You hoped key players would do well and they didn't.
You worried that some young kids would struggle and they exceeded expectations.

Yeah Bo is abig part of this team and his importance will grow as years go on. He is by far our best rookie
- VANTEL

I guess it really depends on what a persons definition of disaster is? Do you cherry pick one stat, which is bad no question, and base your opinion on that or do you look at the bigger picture and look at his growth as a player?

Patrice Bergeron was -28 as a 21 year old and he scored 70 points that year....three Selke Trophies later says that doesn't define your path forward.

Getting away from Vrbata and the experience this year will serve him well next year.

I think we're having two different conversations.

Convo #1: Bo has been better in the last 20 games and he will continue to improve.

I agree.

Convo #2: Bo's season has been a disaster. He's been on the ice for 50 goals at even strength so far, and has the worst +/- in the entire league.

Still not sure what's debatable about that, but maybe, like your 2 top-5 picks formula, this is one of those things that we can agree to disagree on
- Ronning4ever

fair enough. I guess I think of disaster meaning "all bad" and "terrible" when 2/3's are bad/terrible and 1/3 is good I think the season is ok. But hey, agree to disagree is fine by me. Again I think the only thing you are hanging onto is +/-, it is not a good metric if you want to use stats use ones that sports analysts don't dismiss as deeply flawed and irrelevant.

Brad Ziemer @BradZiemer · 52m .
RT @JustinRayGC: Not saying there's a correlation there, but the 2 players to shake Trump's hand on the range today (Rory, Dustin) are a combined +7.

Brad Ziemer @BradZiemer · 52m .
RT @JustinRayGC: Not saying there's a correlation there, but the 2 players to shake Trump's hand on the range today (Rory, Dustin) are a combined +7.
- hillbillydeluxe

I guess it really depends on what a persons definition of disaster is? Do you cherry pick one stat, which is bad no question, and base your opinion on that or do you look at the bigger picture and look at his growth as a player?

Patrice Bergeron was -28 as a 21 year old and he scored 70 points that year....three Selke Trophies later says that doesn't define your path forward.

Getting away from Vrbata and the experience this year will serve him well be next year.
- LeftCoaster

Building off what you're saying I'd like to point out that Edler had the worst plus minus 2 years ago and bounced back with a great caphit/points season last year as well as putting up points at the level of a top two defenceman per game this year.

Compare his minutes played to other 20 yr olds.
- A_SteamingLombardi

K. I can only look at the last 5 games for TOI averages on NHL.com when I search by age.

19yo
Larkin +19 14 mins
Bennet -5 15 mins
Fabbri -3 14 mins

20yo
Reinhart - 5 19 mins
Barkov +14 20 mins
Mackinnon -5 18 mins
Horvat - 31 17 mins
Lindholm -14 20 mins

Building off what you're saying I'd like to point out that Edler had the worst plus minus 2 years ago and bounced back with a great caphit/points season last year as well as putting up points at the level of a top two defenceman per game this year.
- Pres.cup

Yes. I also called his season that year 'a disaster'.

- A_SteamingLombardi

Utica beat the Leafs 5-4 today...

With the win, the Comets record improves to 30-19-5-3.

Yes. I also called his season that year 'a disaster'.
- Ronning4ever

You need another word other than disaster if you want to have a conversation around here.

Yes. I also called his season that year 'a disaster'.
- Ronning4ever

Bo was thrown into the deep end and struggled for 3 months, Oct to Dec.

Jan and Feb I think he turned it around, he was more aggressive with the puck, driving to the net.

I would venture to guess his minuses were mostly seen from Oct to Dec and has been more even since.

Can he still turn the season around in your eyes? i'm willing to forget the rough stretch to start the season. Most on here are pleased with how he has gained confidence and is holding onto the puck to make plays. He looks like a different player than what we saw in November.

Any predictions on his play next season?

(yes, his +/- is horrible this season)

This reads more like you agree with me.
You hoped key players would do well and they didn't.
You worried that some young kids would struggle and they exceeded expectations.
- dbot

Mayhaps?

I felt like Bo's season has been very bad, but not the Canucks overall.

You need another word other than disaster if you want to have a conversation around here.
- A_SteamingLombardi

Jim Benning is more of a disaster than Bo Horvat

he just goes with the flow... and tries to work in a silly pun. Can't take him serious.
- hillbillydeluxe

Sorry not Ron McLean, Doug Maclean, the former Columbus and Florida GM

Sorry not Ron McLean, Doug Maclean, the former Columbus and Florida GM
- allsports

, I don't mind the potato head, he's okay. don't agree with everything he says, but usually enjoy his perspective.

Jim Benning is more of a disaster than Bo Horvat
- LeftCoaster

K. I can only look at the last 5 games for TOI averages on NHL.com when I search by age.

19yo
Larkin +19 14 mins
Bennet -5 15 mins
Fabbri -3 14 mins

20yo
Reinhart - 5 19 mins
Barkov +14 20 mins
Mackinnon -5 18 mins
Horvat - 31 17 mins
Lindholm -14 20 mins
- Ronning4ever

And once again if you're only looking at +- you'll only see that. Have you actually watched him play in person and seeing how he does against other players. Those players, with the exception of Barkov, Mackinnon, Larkin are going to bed superstars in the league.

Look at your list none of those guys penalty kill. Your stats argument doesn't hold water when you look at the teams and how they have older centers protecting them or. Datsuk, Zetterberg, O'Reilly, Backes, etc