These are the same people who think the Hurricanes should trade Jeff Skinner. Why the hell would a person do that? You can teach someone to play defense. That kind of offensive instinct is very hard to find.

Conversely there are about 100 guys in the AHL and NHL who can do what Zach Smith does.
- BINGO!

People don't get it. People think Curtis Lazar's scoring touch "will come". A great shot is just inherited ability. You can't teach how players like Hoffman and Skinner shoot pucks. Some people just do it better. Just the way humans are made up. If it was all teachable, the league would be filled with Patty Kanes. It would be a glorious league actually. But that just doesn't happen.

Nobody expects Zack Smith to be a 20 goal scorer in the future, do they? I mean, the guy had 3 points last year. THREE.
- BINGO!

I don't know how any player who has almost 5 times as many penalty minutes than he has points in his NHL career is considered anything but a 4th liner. He's having a career year, and great for him - he'll be getting another NHL contract at the end of this one, and maybe a decent one if he doesn't drop off too much. But how quickly we forget all the time he has been a plug/liability for this team.

Seriously, man? :|

you do understand how RFA status works, right?

He can be offer sheeted. We then have a right to match ANY OFFER.

There is no walking possible for Hoffman, unless we fail to qualify him.
- Mr_Clean

Yes I understand how RFA works. However you don't think teams will have big offers for Hoffman? if a team offers him $6.5 for 5 years... do you really think Ottawa would match it.... I doubt it

Yes I understand how RFA works. However you don't think teams will have big offers for Hoffman? if a team offers him $6.5 for 5 years... do you really think Ottawa would match it.... I doubt it
- Maverick1818

A team is offering him 6.5 million for 5 years? Really? I think Ottawa would almost definitely match that. Also, how many players have been offer-sheeted in recent years?

Here is a shot of the zone on the tying goal:


As you can see, Phaneuf rotated down and over to the side boards to attempt to block the pass. Karlsson shifted over to the centre of the ice to move the man in front out from the crease. Pageau got the far post to take out the other man in front.

You have Hoffman and Smith BOTH not covering anyone. You could blame both.

I think it was a mistake to have Hoffman out to defend in the dying seconds, but really both he and Stone should have sealed it with the open net.

Hoffman would require an offer sheet from another team, and Ottawa not to match it. He cannot demand an offer sheet or walk. He has no leverage to just walk. It's possible there is an offer sheet, and the Sens don't match. It's possible the Sens low ball him and wait out the situation. It's possible his rights are traded. We will have to wait and see. I think Hoffman is effective when he has a good playmaking C and opposite winger who can feed him. He isn't a play controlling player. He's a straight up sniper. If someone can find him, and he can get open, he can often beat a goalie. He's not a defensive specialist, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have value. He's not a huge play maker, or puck retriever. He's fast with a good shot. That's what he does and should be looked on as useful in THAT way.

A team is offering him 6.5 million for 5 years? Really? I think Ottawa would almost definitely match that. Also, how many players have been offer-sheeted in recent years?
- Mr_Clean

I would hope they would although I don't exactly trust Bryan Murray right now.
Since 2006
Ryan Kesler
David Backes
Steve Bernier
Niklas Hjalmarsson
Shea Weber
Ryan O'Reilly

I would hope they would although I don't exactly trust Bryan Murray right now.
Since 2006
Ryan Kesler
David Backes
Steve Bernier
Niklas Hjalmarsson
Shea Weber
Ryan O'Reilly
- Maverick1818

Now do the ones that weren't matched.

Now do the ones that weren't matched.


- Mr_Clean

out of that list, just Dustin Penner. My point was more that it could happen and if then Sens are trying to get him for $4-$5 million and a team comes in and offers in $6.5. is Em and BM to cheap to pay it.... it's a possibility

Here is a shot of the zone on the tying goal:


As you can see, Phaneuf rotated down and over to the side boards to attempt to block the pass. Karlsson shifted over to the centre of the ice to move the man in front out from the crease. Pageau got the far post to take out the other man in front.

You have Hoffman and Smith BOTH not covering anyone. You could blame both.

I think it was a mistake to have Hoffman out to defend in the dying seconds, but really both he and Stone should have sealed it with the open net.

Hoffman would require an offer sheet from another team, and Ottawa not to match it. He cannot demand an offer sheet or walk. He has no leverage to just walk. It's possible there is an offer sheet, and the Sens don't match. It's possible the Sens low ball him and wait out the situation. It's possible his rights are traded. We will have to wait and see. I think Hoffman is effective when he has a good playmaking C and opposite winger who can feed him. He isn't a play controlling player. He's a straight up sniper. If someone can find him, and he can get open, he can often beat a goalie. He's not a defensive specialist, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have value. He's not a huge play maker, or puck retriever. He's fast with a good shot. That's what he does and should be looked on as useful in THAT way.
- MaxTLimit

At least the puck MIGHT hit Hoffman there. Smith is doing literally nothing.

Now you know how I feel. I swear most fans would be more satisfied with an entire team of Zach Smiths and JG Pageaus running around. Screw actual talent.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Don't forget 6 Boro's on D

out of that list, just Dustin Penner. My point was more that it could happen and if then Sens are trying to get him for $4-$5 million and a team comes in and offers in $6.5. is Em and BM to cheap to pay it.... it's a possibility
- Maverick1818

Well, my point was that he can hardly walk away from the Senators... The Senators can walk away from him, but not vice-versa.

It honestly seems like most Sens fans need a scapegoat when things are rocky. Cowen took the brunt of that over the last few years, but now that he is gone attention has turned to Hoffman.

I would say that comparing Cowen to Hoff is very appropriate actually, both of them were (in Hoff's case still is) projected to be essential pieces for this team. The problem is both of them have absolutely zero work ethic and I mean zero, top that off with the attitude of a spoiled 3 year old and you get these clowns.

People are going on and on about Hoff being some stud and essential to out team. These people, and you know who you are, need to get your head out of your . . .anyway. So what, so he scores some goals with significant irregularity, that's it, that's all there is to Mike Hoffman. Ya, fans what to see more from him. I don't expect him to be some defensive stalwart but a little regular back checking would be nice, if it's not too inconvenient for him. He is by no means irreplaceable and he seems to be showing more and more he's a detriment to the team more than anything.

I think he had moments of better all around play last night, he seemed to be doing more than taking some laps around the ice but I think he got caught up in himself and his actions contributed to a loss. It's not personal, I don't know the man and I don't hate him, it's just simple numbers and the ones he's putting up aren't outweighing his drawbacks.

I would say that comparing Cowen to Hoff is very appropriate actually, both of them were (in Hoff's case still is) projected to be essential pieces for this team. The problem is both of them have absolutely zero work ethic and I mean zero, top that off with the attitude of a spoiled 3 year old and you get these clowns.

People are going on and on about Hoff being some stud and essential to out team. These people, and you know who you are, need to get your head out of your . . .anyway. So what, so he scores some goals with significant irregularity, that's it, that's all there is to Mike Hoffman. Ya, fans what to see more from him. I don't expect him to be some defensive stalwart but a little regular back checking would be nice, if it's not too inconvenient for him. He is by no means irreplaceable and he seems to be showing more and more he's a detriment to the team more than anything.

I think he had moments of better all around play last night, he seemed to be doing more than taking some laps around the ice but I think he got caught up in himself and his actions contributed to a loss. It's not personal, I don't know the man and I don't hate him, it's just simple numbers and the ones he's putting up aren't outweighing his drawbacks.
- Sens.sational

Except Hoffman is actually good and Cowen can't make the (frank)ing Maple Leafs.

Yes I understand how RFA works. However you don't think teams will have big offers for Hoffman? if a team offers him $6.5 for 5 years... do you really think Ottawa would match it.... I doubt it
- Maverick1818

But then they give up a first for him. Look you like Hoffman we all get it. I like him too but if he is not pulling his weight then a message does need to be sent. No one in my opinion should get a free pass even star players. And he was on the ice longer than he needed to be for the equalizing goal so it was partially his fault even if you think he did make his coverage. I am not convinced that he is a team player and that aspect is way, way more important than ability.

Here is a shot of the zone on the tying goal:


As you can see, Phaneuf rotated down and over to the side boards to attempt to block the pass. Karlsson shifted over to the centre of the ice to move the man in front out from the crease. Pageau got the far post to take out the other man in front.

You have Hoffman and Smith BOTH not covering anyone. You could blame both.

I think it was a mistake to have Hoffman out to defend in the dying seconds, but really both he and Stone should have sealed it with the open net.

Hoffman would require an offer sheet from another team, and Ottawa not to match it. He cannot demand an offer sheet or walk. He has no leverage to just walk. It's possible there is an offer sheet, and the Sens don't match. It's possible the Sens low ball him and wait out the situation. It's possible his rights are traded. We will have to wait and see. I think Hoffman is effective when he has a good playmaking C and opposite winger who can feed him. He isn't a play controlling player. He's a straight up sniper. If someone can find him, and he can get open, he can often beat a goalie. He's not a defensive specialist, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have value. He's not a huge play maker, or puck retriever. He's fast with a good shot. That's what he does and should be looked on as useful in THAT way.
- MaxTLimit

Wow like, were you even watching the game?

Sens tried to crowd up the middle and prevent a shot from being taken

The puck took a funny bounce off the post and landed on skinners stick perfectly

Half the players didn't even see where the puck went

Hoffman, after realizing the puck was on Skinners stick rushed to the middle to try and block it.

Like you peops are ridiculous if you think Hoffman was the cause of that goal

But then they give up a first for him. Look you like Hoffman we all get it. I like him too but if he is not pulling his weight then a message does need to be sent. No one in my opinion should get a free pass even star players. And he was on the ice longer than he needed to be for the equalizing goal so it was partially his fault even if you think he did make his coverage. I am not convinced that he is a team player and that aspect is way, way more important than ability.
- kratosmr

I'm not saying he should get a free pass. I'm saying he did what he was asked to do this year and should be signed long term. and I am saying he should be put in a position to add to his goal total not down to the 4th line

Wow like, were you even watching the game?

Sens tried to crowd up the middle and prevent a shot from being taken

The puck took a funny bounce off the post and landed on skinners stick perfectly

Half the players didn't even see where the puck went

Hoffman, after realizing the puck was on Skinners stick rushed to the middle to try and block it.

Like you peops are ridiculous if you think Hoffman was the cause of that goal
- Trilla

He still didn't leave the ice when his line mates did. That is not the sign of a team player. Feel free to try and argue that point.

He still didn't leave the ice when his line mates did. That is not the sign of a team player. Feel free to try and argue that point.
- kratosmr

Who knows

Maybe Cameron told him to stay on

Maybe he wanted to prove Cameron wrong

Maybe he felt by making the change it would give Carolina a better opportunity to enter the zone so he stayed.

We can only speculate.

What does that have to do with being a team player? There are so many reasons as to why a player may not get off the ice during a line change.

Hoffman is the best pure goal scorer on the team. For what he brings, I think that $5M-$5.5M on a 4 year deal is fair. To be worth more, he'd have to be more consistent both offensively and defensively. It would also be great if he didn't finish the regular season so poorly. I don't think that a Bobby Ryan level pay day for Mike Hoffman is in the best interests of the team.

Mark Stone is the best forward for Ottawa by a significant margin. Kyle Turris is next. These are the players that I would prefer to pay the big money to.

Who knows

Maybe Cameron told him to stay on

Maybe he wanted to prove Cameron wrong

Maybe he felt by making the change it would give Carolina a better opportunity to enter the zone so he stayed.

We can only speculate.

What does that have to do with being a team player? There are so many reasons as to why a player may not get off the ice during a line change.
- Trilla

It may have nothing to do with it but it may also have everything to do with it. Fact is all of the people here who are both defending him and attacking him do not know all that is going in. Appearances can be deceptive.

Wow like, were you even watching the game?
Sens tried to crowd up the middle and prevent a shot from being taken
The puck took a funny bounce off the post and landed on skinners stick perfectly
Half the players didn't even see where the puck went
Hoffman, after realizing the puck was on Skinners stick rushed to the middle to try and block it.
Like you peops are ridiculous if you think Hoffman was the cause of that goal
- Trilla

That is a screen capture from a video of the goal, so YES I DID WATCH IT.

Also, defensive zone coverage is about positioning. Man coverage. Puck bounces don't matter if you have inside positioning like you are supposed to. Neither Smith, n'or Hoffman had that. That is why Skinner was ably to shift laterally into open ice.

Here is a shot just before:


Really it was more Smith than anything, as he was puck watching. Hoffman was softly covering Murphy, because he was the high man, but pulled away to make a move for the puck. Hoffman was a bit too puck focused, but he did start out covering a guy and made the mistake a lot of forwards do by trying to play the puck when there is weak surrounding support. Hoffman was more unlucky on this play than anything. If he was able to hold the puck and fire it away instead of bouncing through him, it never wouldn't have gotten to Skinner, who Smith should have had covered.

EDIT - I also typed Stone instead of Smith in my original post. That was a mistake. Sorry.

Except Hoffman is actually good and Cowen can't make the (frank)ing Maple Leafs.
- BINGO!

Semantics.

Guys stop it was just a combination of two flukes in a row. It's not the result of somebody not having enough heart.

Semantics.
- Mr_Clean

Here is a shot of the zone on the tying goal:


As you can see, Phaneuf rotated down and over to the side boards to attempt to block the pass. Karlsson shifted over to the centre of the ice to move the man in front out from the crease. Pageau got the far post to take out the other man in front.

You have Hoffman and Smith BOTH not covering anyone. You could blame both.

I think it was a mistake to have Hoffman out to defend in the dying seconds, but really both he and Stone should have sealed it with the open net.

Hoffman would require an offer sheet from another team, and Ottawa not to match it. He cannot demand an offer sheet or walk. He has no leverage to just walk. It's possible there is an offer sheet, and the Sens don't match. It's possible the Sens low ball him and wait out the situation. It's possible his rights are traded. We will have to wait and see. I think Hoffman is effective when he has a good playmaking C and opposite winger who can feed him. He isn't a play controlling player. He's a straight up sniper. If someone can find him, and he can get open, he can often beat a goalie. He's not a defensive specialist, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have value. He's not a huge play maker, or puck retriever. He's fast with a good shot. That's what he does and should be looked on as useful in THAT way.
- MaxTLimit

Ive said this a thousand times now and only Terror and Sens_Army are the only others that see this... Its NO JUST ABOUT HIS DEFENSIVE GAME. Sure, it sucks, but thats forgiven given his goal scoring ability. Its that he repeatedly makes minor hockey mistakes. He wasn't put out there in the final minute. He has a one minute and 23 second shift when the rest of his line had a 40 second shift. When you're out in the last little bit you change the second you get a chance, even if its ten seconds, because you never know when your next chance might come and you don't want to get stuck out there tired, which he did. Hoff had a big hard on to score an empty netter and in turn cost the sens the game. He is always making selfish minor hockey plays like that. Stick handling at the blue line, throwing in front instead of cycling, taking two minute shifts, clearing the zone long before the puck. All of these are not even related to talent, its just a matter of doing, which he refuses, and thats why he gets poop on by the coach. And then he's given a chance and he (frank)s up and costs his team the game.