You don't remember the Mastodon/Hal Gill bit from our fearless leader, PLind?
- PhillySportsGuy

Ah yes. Now I do.

His production is the lowest, but he was asked to be the minute munching #1 dman who faced off against the other teams top lines all season. Which he did an admirable job of, at least when he was paired with the best possession dman on the team in Gudas. So I can accept the huge dip in his point scoring from last season.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/...ggregate=0&teamId=4&pos=D

MacDonald didn't produce enough offensively last season and I was critical of him for it, but so far this season he's gotten back to being a useful offensive contributor. That shouldn't be a controversial statement to make.
- Feanor

The team's on ice shooting percentage is much higher with him on the ice. It's twice as high as MDZ and Medvedev's. That's likely to regress. He also gets to play with Ghost, so his offensive numbers will be helped by a guy who averages 2.22 p/60

Finally, the sample size of 21 games is far too small to start judging p/60. Each point raises his p/60 by .15 points. There's no way the 0.84 is significant.

It didn't help Manning or Medvedev that much. Ghost's PP points haven't helped any dman because the top PP unit is Ghost plus four forwards. Except when Voracek was hurt, and the top unit went in the tank with Ghost and Streit on the points

Guess OT doesnt count as even strength...and I guess we jsut wont discuss the other points I made though

You've made your point...I have made mine...I dont care anymore about nitpicking 5v5, pp ice time, OT points, who was burned by mcdavid the most times...you win if thats what you want to hear

Just please explain the difference in team performance and scoring. Explain how all these stats you are mentioning aren't a result of the team playing better as a whole and AMac not being a part of the terrible stretch that was the beginning of the year because that is all that matters to me at this point
- YuenglingJagr

Seems like you need to explain why the team's performance is better when MacDonald is in the lineup. If he's so bad, it should have at best stayed even.

"Can you imagine if Ghost had pulled a Jimmy Vesey? Watching him do this stuff for another team...it's too horrific to even think about!

Mark Friedman, don't be a Vesey. Though idk if he even stays to graduate. I could see him leaving early; he's probably too good for his team. When do you think he signs, Bill? After next season?"


I really hate this somewhat of a trend lately with college kids not signing with their draft teams. I hope more players don't start following suit whether euros, college or junior players. Imagine if Ghost or Provolov did that? Don't like it.
- nastyflyergirl

Theres an argument to be made that sports leagues shouldn't even have drafts because it's unfair to the kids. Can you imagine the top med student graduating from an ivy league school and being told he or she needs to go work in Flint because they need his or her services the most?

Theres an argument to be made that sports leagues shouldn't even have drafts because it's unfair to the kids. Can you imagine the top med student graduating from an ivy league school and being told he or she needs to go work in Flint because they need his or her services the most?
- PhillySportsGuy

Comparing sports to the real working world is comparing apples to oranges.

Comparing sports to the real working world is comparing apples to oranges.
- Scoob

How so?

Theres an argument to be made that sports leagues shouldn't even have drafts because it's unfair to the kids. Can you imagine the top med student graduating from an ivy league school and being told he or she needs to go work in Flint because they need his or her services the most?
- PhillySportsGuy

To be fair, players make a decision at some point in their life that they want to become a professional athlete. Whether it's the money or the joy of playing the sport as a career, they decide that they want to move forward. They're able to make the money that they want and play the sport they love. And at the end of the day, they just have to be patient if they REALLY want to play in a certain city. It's called paying their dues.

When I graduated college, I was told that I'd be swimming in debt. I didn't want to hear any of that and I didn't hear it until a few months after graduation when my first bill came. I wanted to find a nice, cushy full-time job with benefits and make the salary that all of my professors told me I was going to make. At the end of the day, you make the choices that are in front of you. You pay your dues. At some point in life, I expect that I'll have more flexibility in obtaining the perfect job with the perfect salary in the perfect location.

I'm not saying you or anyone else needs a lesson in life. Some people here had it better than me; some worse. But why do we need to make excuses for players that are ultimately being paid very well to do something they love? Do they need the perfect situation right out of college/minors? What's wrong with paying your dues and having an appreciation of the sport along with its' economy.

How so?
- PhillySportsGuy

Because the real working world sucks Richard

In regards to Flyers defenseman and last night, I think Gudas and Shcultz had some very shaky moments. Jets guys flew past Gudas twice early in the game, and Schultz had his miscues as well. Those two were more noticeable in a negative way than Amac to me at least last night.

In general there is not a D pair on the current team that I am happy to see on the ice late in the game or even late in a period protecting a lead. Hence the problem that Hakstol has with the current line up.

Ghost seems at least comfortable playing with Amac right now.

I think the 5 on 6 problems are systemic. They've been going on all season.

How so?
- PhillySportsGuy

Mainly because the players union have so much more power than most workers, so even if the draft can be seen as unfair, there are all sorts of benefits players get from their labor rules being collectively bargained. Like, if they get caught doing drugs they can't just be fired on the spot.

Ghost seems at least comfortable playing with Amac right now.
- Marc D

I thought he just looked resigned to it.

Flyers win last night officially eliminated Canada from playoff contention.
- PLindbergh31

Saw a crazy stat that the 5 Canadian teams are the worse 5 PP teams in the league.

How so?
- PhillySportsGuy

First of all, even the "worst" working situation is professional sports is excellent.
Second, in the real world you don't get to choose where you want to work (which is what I inferred from your comment). You apply, interview (hopefully), and get hired (hopefully).

I for one am glad Medvedev has been scratched lately. He did show promise and some skills at the beginning of the season, but his weaknesses are too much of a liability, IMO. He gets beat one-on-one way too often, watching the puck instead of playing the body. And his turnovers can be brutal.

I think Hakstol has made this team much more disciplined in its own zone. There have been several periods these last few weeks where the opposition spends very little time in the Flyers' zone and they are held to very few shots. The system is working (and this has led to far fewer penalties as well). I think Manning and AMac have been more successful at playing within that system than Medvedev. That's why I think Hakstol has those guys in instead of Medvedev. If they make the playoffs then they might need Med to fill in. But IMO there's no need to put him in until they clinch a spot.

Regarding last night's game, I thought they played well but it seemed obvious they were running out of gas as the game went on. It's not so much that they didn't play well later on. The Jets just had more energy.

Yeah, there's not much advantage to having a home game the day after flying back from Arizona.

This. Turn on sports radio yesterday thinking they'd talk about Flyers or Nova. Five minutes of discussing Eagles oline before I turned it off
- EducatedOpinion

well not to defend them at all but they talk about what people call about. there has been a little more Flyers talk lately which I love but the calls are still mostly about the Eagles. its maddening but if more Flyers fans called in there would be more Flyers talk. I know the Phils are going to stink again but i'm somewhat looking forward to the season because of the youth. You'd think there would be Phillies calls, right? nope. Still Eagles fans making the calls

It didn't help Manning or Medvedev that much. Ghost's PP points haven't helped any dman because the top PP unit is Ghost plus four forwards. Except when Voracek was hurt, and the top unit went in the tank with Ghost and Streit on the points



Seems like you need to explain why the team's performance is better when MacDonald is in the lineup. If he's so bad, it should have at best stayed even.
- Feanor

Flyers NHL rank in GF since Jan 1st is 6th
Flyers NHL rank in GF since Feb 13th (amac) 8th

GF/G NHL rank by month

Nov - 30th - 1.71
Dec - 13th - 2.75
Jan - 10th - 2.73
Feb - 6th - 3.2
Mar - 7th - 3

You can use these stats to pretend the difference is Andrew MacDonald or you can come to the realization that he is a passenger, not a driver. The team is playing much better than they were in the beginning of the year and posting random stats about MacDonalds P/60 doesn't make him any better. He is playing okay for a team that is playing great....that is all

I for one am glad Medvedev has been scratched lately. He did show promise and some skills at the beginning of the season, but his weaknesses are too much of a liability, IMO. He gets beat one-on-one way too often, watching the puck instead of playing the body. And his turnovers can be brutal.

I think Hakstol has made this team much more disciplined in its own zone. There have been several periods these last few weeks where the opposition spends very little time in the Flyers' zone and they are held to very few shots. The system is working (and this has led to far fewer penalties as well). I think Manning and AMac have been more successful at playing within that system than Medvedev. That's why I think Hakstol has those guys in instead of Medvedev. If they make the playoffs then they might need Med to fill in. But IMO there's no need to put him in until they clinch a spot.

Regarding last night's game, I thought they played well but it seemed obvious they were running out of gas as the game went on. It's not so much that they didn't play well later on. The Jets just had more energy.
- Andrew_21

Good post

And yet he's playing 20+ minutes a game including 2+ minutes on the much improved PK unit, leading the team in +/-, and scoring at a higher rate than any dman on the team but Ghost and Streit.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/...ggregate=0&teamId=4&pos=D

No offense.

MacDonald's been a huge part of the team's success since MDZ got hurt and you're just going to have to deal with that fact.
- Feanor

And this is why I hate the fancy stats. Guys can have all great fancy numbers but man, the guy has some of THE worse turnovers. that damn between the legs back pass to Giroux in front of the net that went between G's legs cannot happen. I want to like AMAC because quite frankly he is a Flyer but plays like that.... When the trade first happened I thought he did a nice job but ever since he got that big extension he just has not been good. no doubt in my mind if contracts weren't guaranteed he would be gone

Because the real working world sucks Richard
- Streit2ThePoint

big, if true

To be fair, players make a decision at some point in their life that they want to become a professional athlete. Whether it's the money or the joy of playing the sport as a career, they decide that they want to move forward. They're able to make the money that they want and play the sport they love. And at the end of the day, they just have to be patient if they REALLY want to play in a certain city. It's called paying their dues.

When I graduated college, I was told that I'd be swimming in debt. I didn't want to hear any of that and I didn't hear it until a few months after graduation when my first bill came. I wanted to find a nice, cushy full-time job with benefits and make the salary that all of my professors told me I was going to make. At the end of the day, you make the choices that are in front of you. You pay your dues. At some point in life, I expect that I'll have more flexibility in obtaining the perfect job with the perfect salary in the perfect location.

I'm not saying you or anyone else needs a lesson in life. Some people here had it better than me; some worse. But why do we need to make excuses for players that are ultimately being paid very well to do something they love? Do they need the perfect situation right out of college/minors? What's wrong with paying your dues and having an appreciation of the sport along with its' economy.


- steelydan

I understand what you're saying, but no other profession forces its elite talent to go to places they don't want to. Kids choose their college and their first jobs.

I admit it would be damn near impossible to implement this type of system in the NHL or any sports league because players would always choose the most desirable markets, but, at the same time, I don't begrudge the players for taking 3 months to make a decision on any team rather than picking the one that drafted him.

Vesey didn't handle the whole thing well, but it's his choice to make. If he wants to be close to friends and family or play for a big market or play with a friend, he has a right to do that.

Flyers NHL rank in GF since Jan 1st is 6th
Flyers NHL rank in GF since Feb 13th (amac) 8th

GF/G NHL rank by month

Nov - 30th - 1.71
Dec - 13th - 2.75
Jan - 10th - 2.73
Feb - 6th - 3.2
Mar - 7th - 3

You can use these stats to pretend the difference is Andrew MacDonald or you can come to the realization that he is a passenger, not a driver. The team is playing much better than they were in the beginning of the year and posting random stats about MacDonalds P/60 doesn't make him any better. He is playing okay for a team that is playing great....that is all
- YuenglingJagr

5 of his 6 points being primary assists points to him being more of a driver than a passenger. But I understand the why you feel the need to pretend otherwise. The narrative that AMac wasn't fit for anything but AHL duty is deeply seated around here, and facts that contradict that make certain people angry and confused. Hence the whole "no offense" BS that started this discussion.

I for one am glad Medvedev has been scratched lately. He did show promise and some skills at the beginning of the season, but his weaknesses are too much of a liability, IMO. He gets beat one-on-one way too often, watching the puck instead of playing the body. And his turnovers can be brutal.

I think Hakstol has made this team much more disciplined in its own zone. There have been several periods these last few weeks where the opposition spends very little time in the Flyers' zone and they are held to very few shots. The system is working (and this has led to far fewer penalties as well). I think Manning and AMac have been more successful at playing within that system than Medvedev. That's why I think Hakstol has those guys in instead of Medvedev. If they make the playoffs then they might need Med to fill in. But IMO there's no need to put him in until they clinch a spot.

Regarding last night's game, I thought they played well but it seemed obvious they were running out of gas as the game went on. It's not so much that they didn't play well later on. The Jets just had more energy.
- Andrew_21

The discipline is the most damning factor in the pro-medvedev argument I think. You are right that Hakstol (and possibly Mason) seems to just trust those two to play more disciplined...either that or Mason just expects them to give up chances and is ready for them vs one coming out of nowhere

I understand what you're saying, but no other profession forces its elite talent to go to places they don't want to. Kids choose their college and their first jobs.

I admit it would be damn near impossible to implement this type of system in the NHL or any sports league because players would always choose the most desirable markets, but, at the same time, I don't begrudge the players for taking 3 months to make a decision on any team rather than picking the one that drafted him.

Vesey didn't handle the whole thing well, but it's his choice to make. If he wants to be close to friends and family or play for a big market or play with a friend, he has a right to do that.
- PhillySportsGuy

False.
You apply where you think you'd like to go/work but the college/employer must choose you.

5/6 of his points being primary assists points to him being more of a driver than a passenger. But I understand the why you feel the need to pretend otherwise.
- Feanor