I guess i just dont see his fit anymore, hes already lost all that time to gel with any team mates. Kane obv comes back so there is 1 top six lw left...... do we bump Gus to the 3rd line? Id rather not..... get what you can for him and move on imo
- hubie

Well, yes, but not because of Ennis. We bump him to the 3rd because he's a 3rd liner. And since 82-12-22 are occupying the 3rd that puts Girgs likely on the 4th. Ennis can fit if he can mesh with this team. If he can do that, great. If not, thanks for 2011

Well, yes, but not because of Ennis. We bump him to the 3rd because he's a 3rd liner. And since 82-12-22 are occupying the 3rd that puts Girgs likely on the 4th. Ennis can fit if he can mesh with this team. If he can do that, great. If not, thanks for 2011
- Zschalberg

that wont ever happen

Ennis to Vancouver for Jordan Suban and Chris Higgins(I love that guy)
but yes i know thats prob not enough coming back to us

that wont ever happen
- hubie

It's better than him being in the top 6 imo. He's taken such a step backwards. Sure, he can be a 3rd line checking center. But right now that position is filled with a 3rd line scoring center in Gionta who has turned it on. He can't play top 6 (6-11-17). He has 3 points in his last 16 games and that's with a few of those games getting top 6 minutes.

Well... that escalated quickly
- Havic3814

That was very poor joke, for which I apologize, that riffed, stupidly, off a long rant posted in the Leaf thread last time we played the Leafs. The rant was by - if I recall correctly - a certain "QuickSCF."

It's better than him being in the top 6 imo. He's taken such a step backwards. Sure, he can be a 3rd line checking center. But right now that position is filled with a 3rd line scoring center in Gionta who has turned it on. He can't play top 6 (6-11-17). He has 3 points in his last 16 games and that's with a few of those games getting top 6 minutes.
- Zschalberg

I agree, but being around here long enough wed get yelled at for calling him a 3c. BUt that is what he is, thats where hes best suited. Id like him with Larsson as a good shut down line. Paired with my Higgins trade idea would be quite a lock down unit

I agree, but being around here long enough wed get yelled at for calling him a 3c. BUt that is what he is, thats where hes best suited. Id like him with Larsson as a good shut down line. Paired with my Higgins trade idea would be quite a lock down unit
- hubie

Why have a shut down 3rd line though when you can have a 3rd line that can score? I like what we have right now in 3 lines that are all producing. If Girgs can center that line and they still produce points then great. But I don't see that he can. If anything I think Ennis is more suited to take that spot from Gionta.

Now, if Girgs turns it around next year then that's great, put him in as 3C. If he doesn't then he either plays as a Dan Paille or he gets traded.

That was very poor joke, for which I apologize, that riffed, stupidly, off a long rant posted in the Leaf thread last time we played the Leafs. The rant was by - if I recall correctly - a certain "QuickSCF."
- Der Kaiser

I dissected your statement and the bold words are all i caught

Why have a shut down 3rd line though when you can have a 3rd line that can score? I like what we have right now in 3 lines that are all producing. If Girgs can center that line and they still produce points then great. But I don't see that he can. If anything I think Ennis is more suited to take that spot from Gionta.

Now, if Girgs turns it around next year then that's great, put him in as 3C. If he doesn't then he either plays as a Dan Paille or he gets traded.
- Zschalberg

Call me ole fashioned but a 2-1 win is better than a 4-3 loss. You have a shut down line so the Pens and Caps et al dont put up 5 every time

Why have a shut down 3rd line though when you can have a 3rd line that can score? I like what we have right now in 3 lines that are all producing. If Girgs can center that line and they still produce points then great. But I don't see that he can. If anything I think Ennis is more suited to take that spot from Gionta.

Now, if Girgs turns it around next year then that's great, put him in as 3C. If he doesn't then he either plays as a Dan Paille or he gets traded.
- Zschalberg

You think Ennis will fit better with Foligno and Larsson than Girgensons will?

I know Girgensons didn't play well this year, but he played. And when he plays, he plays like Larsson and Foligno, not like Ennis.

Ennis didn't play at all, and has never played like Foligno and Larsson.

You think Ennis will fit better with Foligno and Larsson than Girgensons will?

I know Girgensons didn't play well this year, but he played. And when he plays, he plays like Larsson and Foligno, not like Ennis.

Ennis didn't play at all, and has never played like Foligno and Larsson.
- Der Kaiser

+1

Call me ole fashioned but a 2-1 win is better than a 4-3 loss. You have a shut down line so the Pens and Caps et al dont put up 5 every time
- hubie

I'm not saying don't have a shut down line, I just don't think you need 2 scoring lines, a shut down line, and a line that doesn't play. 3 scoring lines and a checking line. If your 3rd line can help score as well as play defense obviously that's the dream and right now that's what they're doing. Girgs can do the defense part, but can he do the scoring part in a real NHL system? So far he's shown he can't even with all the opportunities in the world.

You think Ennis will fit better with Foligno and Larsson than Girgensons will?

I know Girgensons didn't play well this year, but he played. And when he plays, he plays like Larsson and Foligno, not like Ennis.

Ennis didn't play at all, and has never played like Foligno and Larsson.
- Der Kaiser

And Gionta plays like Larsson and Foligno? Ennis can be the speed and distributor on the line like Gionta is. Gionta has more defensive experience as well as forechecking prowess, of course.

Basically it comes down to Ennis has 11 points in 23 games and Girgensons has 17 in 67. If I'm trying to score goals I'm putting it on Ennis more than I am on Girgensons. The 3rd line we have out there now is not a checking line. It isn't designed to match up with Crosby's line and shut them down. It's designed for secondary scoring while being responsible. Ennis has the secondary scoring. Girgs has the responsibility part. Neither of them have both.

I'm not saying don't have a shut down line, I just don't think you need 2 scoring lines, a shut down line, and a line that doesn't play. 3 scoring lines and a checking line. If your 3rd line can help score as well as play defense obviously that's the dream and right now that's what they're doing. Girgs can do the defense part, but can he do the scoring part in a real NHL system? So far he's shown he can't even with all the opportunities in the world.
- Zschalberg

I dont believe that Ennis defensive play makes up for his better offensive production. HOwever, Gus's defensive production makes up more for his lack of offense. Which im just chalking up to one off year

I dont believe that Ennis defensive play makes up for his better offensive production. HOwever, Gus's defensive production makes up more for his lack of offense. Which im just chalking up to one off year
- hubie

And that's fine, and I bet Bylsma would even agree with you. To me Girgensons has had the opportunity and has failed to do anything with it. Ennis had the opportunity and even playing terribly had almost .5 p/g which is right around his average. If Girgensons can't score or assist on a line with Eichel and Sam I don't see him doing it on one with Foligno and Larsson.

I could easily be wrong though. Back in Rochester, Larsson was a big driving factor in pushing Girgensons to become better. Maybe putting them together would help reignite that. Similarly, maybe a line of 26-28-63 would be good for them. That line was the top line from either last year or 2 years ago and did well.

Unless this isn't his low point...

Think about this, what if he comes back and is as bad or worse than he was this season? At least right now he has the excuse of the injury and the thought that he had a bad season. He comes back and doesn't look better it could look like he's either not the same player or he was a product of the freedom of not having a system.

That said, if he comes back and is a top 6 player or can even do Gionta's role between 82 and 22 it's be a big help. Biggest question is does his East/West game translate to the North/South system that Bylsma runs? Does he fit on this team or with those line mates? I wish he could have played the last few games so we could have found out.
- Zschalberg

Right now his real value is part of a package, by himself will be offered a second round pick, everyone will be low-balling us for him. If, he comes back and he still stinks, than so be it, will still get virtually nothing for him. But if he comes back and nets 25-30 goals now that he'll be playing with real NHLers than we just solved our top six hole on the wing and we had the guy we needed the entire time.

Right now his real value is part of a package, by himself will be offered a second round pick, everyone will be low-balling us for him. If, he comes back and he still stinks, than so be it, will still get virtually nothing for him. But if he comes back and nets 25-30 goals now that he'll be playing with real NHLers than we just solved our top six hole on the wing and we had the guy we needed the entire time.
- sskkoo1

20 is more realistic but I agree. It does just depend on what can he do with what we have now. If he can play and play well then keep him and we filled a big hole. That's why I feel they really want to get him in games before the season ends

Why have a shut down 3rd line though when you can have a 3rd line that can score? I like what we have right now in 3 lines that are all producing. If Girgs can center that line and they still produce points then great. But I don't see that he can. If anything I think Ennis is more suited to take that spot from Gionta.

Now, if Girgs turns it around next year then that's great, put him in as 3C. If he doesn't then he either plays as a Dan Paille or he gets traded.
- Zschalberg

We have enough skilled and almost skilled players we can use the 4th line as a shut down line.

3 scoring lines and a shut down line .

We have enough skilled and almost skilled players we can use the 4th line as a shut down line.

3 scoring lines and a shut down line .
- cabin

+1

4th line isn't a derogatory term. I wouldn't even number the lines. Just say the checking line. Girgensons should be on the checking line as should D-lo. Because their defense is more valuable than their offense and instead of trying to squeeze water from rocks by trying to get them to get goals let's allow the goal scorers to do their jobs and the defensive guys do theirs.

When Boston won the cup their shut down line was a huge part of it.

We have enough skilled and almost skilled players we can use the 4th line as a shut down line.

3 scoring lines and a shut down line .
- cabin

For what 1 maybe 2 seasons, in a salary cap era rolling lines like that are dam near impossible. People need to get paid after this year and next

For what 1 maybe 2 seasons, in a salary cap era rolling lines like that are dam near impossible. People need to get paid after this year and next
- hubie

So we deal with that then? Why hurt your team for those 1 or 2 years because you think we're going to have to then? Not sure why you're bringing up the cap. We're not saying pay anyone differently.

So we deal with that then? Why hurt your team for those 1 or 2 years because you think we're going to have to then? Not sure why you're bringing up the cap. We're not saying pay anyone differently.
- Zschalberg

Rather have a plan, build to be a winner, I don think Ennis is a major contributing factor to our long term goal

Rather have a plan, build to be a winner, I don think Ennis is a major contributing factor to our long term goal
- hubie

Wouldn't surprise me if Ennis and Girgs are both gone by this time next year. Wouldn't surprise me if they were both gone by the start of camp actually.

Wouldn't surprise me if Ennis and Girgs are both gone by this time next year. Wouldn't surprise me if they were both gone by the start of camp actually.
- BigStew

Id agree with one or both. Both would be part of a larger package for a impact player i could see.

Wouldn't surprise me if Ennis and Girgs are both gone by this time next year. Wouldn't surprise me if they were both gone by the start of camp actually.
- BigStew

It says something about the quality and quantity of our upgrades - and about today's NHL - that two guys who were the team's best producers last year are getting squeezed out. They're both probably too good to be low paid bottom six guys, but not enough of a "sure thing" to be part of what we expect the core will look like by opening day next year.

So perfectly respectable even talented NHLers get sent packing.

It says something about the quality and quantity of our upgrades - and about today's NHL - that two guys who were the team's best producers last year are getting squeezed out. They're both probably too good to be low paid bottom six guys, but not enough of a "sure thing" to be part of what we expect the core will look like by opening day next year.

So perfectly respectable even talented NHLers get sent packing.
- Der Kaiser

I think they are 2 guys who(will) price themselves out of their situation. Ennis 4m as a 3rd liner case in point