The trailing skate needs to be down on the ice. It is not...offside.
- Scooby_Doo

I don't think so unless you are actually in the offensive zone.

That changes things.

The trailing skate needs to be down on the ice. It is not...offside.
- Scooby_Doo

Their argument is that neither of his skates had touched down inside the ozone. But it had.

Their argument is that neither of his skates had touched down inside the ozone. But it had.
- Iggysbff

I don't see anything showing the front skate down before the puck crosses.

He was offside. Is in this picture, is in any video you watch (without editing) and the rule is really clear.
- Scooby_Doo

Why, exactly? Please show your work.

The last contact he had with the ice surface before the puck fully entered the zone was with his trailing skate pushing off on the blue line or just outside it. A player is onside until he isn't, and he can't be offside unless his skate or another part of his body or equipment is in contact with the ice surface in the attacking zone before the puck fully arrives in the zone. There is no still or video that proves this conclusively, rather it is more the opposite. The video in the YouTube link slows the frames down at the point his skate first contacts the ice inside the zone and the puck is already across the line and disappearing behind the player. Not offside.

This is actually an unfavorable angle for the player as it is coming from inside the zone. That won't effect the ability to see when his skate hits the ice, but from this angle the puck won't appear to be 100% across the line until it is about and inch or two past that since the lines are under the ice surface.

I don't think so unless you are actually in the offensive zone.

That changes things.
- carcus

Once in the air, he is then in the offensive zone. The puck is trailing him, thus putting him offside.

Their argument is that neither of his skates had touched down inside the ozone. But it had.
- Iggysbff

Oh. I haven't seen any footage that would show he jumped 5 feet keeping both skates in the air.

Once in the air, he is then in the offensive zone. The puck is trailing him, thus putting him offside.
- Scooby_Doo

Wrong.

If you are in full stride 5 feet behind the puck as it crosses the blueline and both feet are off the ice, you are offside?

Because you are not touching the ice as the puck crosses the blueline.

That is literally the same except he is up on the line above it. You don't actually gain the zone until you or your skates make contact with the ice in that zone. It is the same concept for tagging up on a delayed offside. You have to have a skate make contact with the ice in the neutral zone before you have entered the zone and officially tagged up, regardless if other parts of your body are over the line.

Oh. I haven't seen any footage that would show he jumped 5 feet keeping both skates in the air.
- Scooby_Doo

He didn't jump 5 feet in the air.

A normal stride in running and skating has both feet off the ground at times. That is not abnormal.

In summation:

Wrong.

If you are in full stride 5 feet behind the puck as it crosses the blueline and both feet are off the ice, you are offside?

Because you are not touching the ice as the puck crosses the blueline.

That is literally the same except he is up on the line above it. You don't actually gain the zone until you or your skates make contact with the ice in that zone. It is the same concept for tagging up on a delayed offside. You have to have a skate make contact with the ice in the neutral zone before you have entered the zone and officially tagged up, regardless if other parts of your body are over the line.
- carcus

If the front skate comes down first, yes you are offside.
Obviously the NHL agrees with me, just saying...

EK ...stay off Pierre McGuire's monster Kool aid. You don't feel any different, but it makes you say some shi#$.

And that interpretation of the rule should apply equally to both skates. At the time the puck crosses the line, both skates are off the ice, and the last skate to touch (the trailing skate) established him onside when he pushed off. It wasn't until after the puck had completely crossed the line that the lead skate contacted the ice inside the zone. You can see this clearly from any of the bench view angles because the convergence of the skate and its own shadow is not dependent on the angle. If you freeze the frame at the point where Lehtera's skate touches its own shadow, which is when the skate touches the ice inside the zone, on the Blues' feed the puck has disappeared behind Lehtera with white ice visible between his body and the blueline.

Open to interpretation? Certainly. Conclusive? Absolutely not!
- bluenatic411

I think the offside rule is being misinterpreted by a lot of people. As written, the players skates have to be either contacting the blue line, or in the neutral zone to be on side. If the players skate is in the neutral zone (i.e. Not on the blue line) then the players skates do not have to be contacting the ice. That is why if a player jumps in the air in the neural zone, he is still onside.

With that in mind, neither of the players skates are contacting the blue line or in the neutral zone when the puck enters the offensive zone, and he is therefore offside. It is close but pretty clearly offside.

Why? Because it didn't go in their favor?

It's always been this way. That's why you see players stretching back to try to stay on side. It's fine the way it is. Just because it didnt go your way doesn't mean it needs to change.
- Iggysbff

so by your logic we should do away with the review/challenge since it hasnt always been that way. At one point there were 6 teams. Maybe they should've never expanded because it had always been that way. I'm not always for change for the sake of change but when it's necessary and really doesnt change very much in the grand scheme of the game then it's welcomed. I'm not talking about taking away the 2-line pass or making a trapezoid behind the nets.

It doesn't matter whether the front foot is touching the ice, because both feet are not in contact with the blue line or in the neutral zone, the player is offside. That's how the rule is written.

so by your logic we should do away with the review/challenge since it hasnt always been that way. At one point there were 6 teams. Maybe they should've never expanded because it had always been that way. I'm not always for change for the sake of change but when it's necessary and really doesnt change very much in the grand scheme of the game then it's welcomed. I'm not talking about taking away the 2-line pass or making a trapezoid behind the nets.
- Stu17

The rule has always been the same. Enforcing it with new technology has changed. Technology has changed. All sports. Doesn't mean they need to change the rule because of one outcome.

I couldn't agree more! I absoultely hate this rule, and the entire review process. Last year that goal would have stood, and no one would have known any different. This is akin to challenging balls and strikes in baseball, and completely takes away from the game. From a fan's perspective, how sad is it that I can no longer celebrate when my team scores a goal right away, because I have to wait and see if there is a potentially challengable offside?

This needs to change in my opinion!!!!!!!!!!!

It's a harder loss to swallow when it plays out like that no doubt, but I don't think either goal call was wrong. I thought the emblishment call on Fabri in the 3rd was ridiculous, but that was about the only controversial call in my opinion.

It doesn't matter whether the front foot is touching the ice, because both feet are not in contact with the blue line or in the neutral zone, the player is offside. That's how the rule is written.
- LaheysBRandy

Absolutely not true. A player straddling the blue line as the puck enters the zone is onside. The same player jumping in the air from that same position as the puck enters the zone is still onside. The most important issue was whether the player's last contact with the ice was in the attacking zone or the neutral zone. If you have both skates in the air (very common if you skate and have ever paid attention) and your last contact with the ice surface was onside, you stay onside until you're not. The only way you go from onside to offside under those circumstances is if the next part of the player or his equipment to contact the ice does so in the attacking zone before the puck is 100% in the zone. The puck was already 100% in the zone before Lehtera's lead skate hit the ice. Onside.

If you're going to claim "That's how the rule is written" it would help to actually know the rule.

I like the human element to officiating.........without replay the goal would have stood. Either way it was the Chicago goal that had bad optics. I don't think it's fair to call a goal back if a player has a toe in the crease, but both feet firmly planted in the crease just doesn't seem right........the goalie clearly did not have full access to his crease.

If the front skate comes down first, yes you are offside.
Obviously the NHL agrees with me, just saying...
- Scooby_Doo

NHL officials are always correct, right?

They don't make mistakes in big games under pressure? This was a linesman's call.

Maybe I'm crazy but I can't think of any point where at least one skate isn't in contact with the ice during a normal stride. During a start from a standstill it happens, but not when you're in full stride I don't think. A running stride isn't similar to a skating one.
- ehabs9

So Lehtera jumped last night on the play?

No, he was skating. Watch the play at full speed. Then watch his feet during the slo mo. Both of his feet are off of the ice and it is from his skating stride.

I like the human element to officiating.........without replay the goal would have stood. Either way it was the Chicago goal that had bad optics. I don't think it's fair to call a goal back if a player has a toe in the crease, but both feet firmly planted in the crease just doesn't seem right........the goalie clearly did not have full access to his crease.
- Bullot

Courtesy of the Blues dman repeatedly cross checking Shaw further and further into the crease

So Lehtera jumped last night on the play?

No, he was skating. Watch the play at full speed. Then watch his feet during the slo mo. Both of his feet are off of the ice and it is from his skating stride.
- carcus

I agree. Poor rule the skate has to be on the ice. should be similar to football where you just have to break the plane

The problem with invoking "spirit of the rule" instead of technicality is then it becomes subjective. When "yes it was technically offside but was the offside really important in the play" thinking is applied then is becomes a matter of subjective degrees and the point of using technology to get the call right is to remove subjectivity from the call.

Either allow technology to decide the call or don't bother using it. Either way I don't care - the great game of hockey has survived a long time before technology started to be used to "get the call right" - but suggesting some hybrid of technology and subjectivity is the better solution - I disagree.

What about rule 83.4?

"Other than in situations involving a delayed off-side and the puck entering the goal, no goal can be disallowed after the fact for an off-side violation, except for the human factor involved in blowing the whistle."

This was not a delayed offside call since the linesmen never blew the whistle, so shouldn't the goal have counted?