You are on crack if you think Karlsson's defense is "sub par".
- belcherbd

Have a look at his number's without the puck. He's not too great at defending at this level, he is exceptional with the puck,at possessing and scoring. Again, the position is defense, not rear wing.

Are you talking about Hafinin? He's a -14 and has 22 points. I don't see any of their young D standing out above Hutton enough to be discouraging and sure as hell didnt see them thrown into what Hutton was.

Philly is a playoff team. Not many teams dealt with the Canucks problems this season. Our 2nd line C who is our best defensive forward was out for almost the entire season, that really makes a difference for our D. Edler and Hamhuis combined for a season of man games lost as well.

I understand your argument but the way you just compare everything as stats or on paper seldom paints a complete picture.
- boonerbuck

I'm not going to get into how irrelevant plus/minus is again. Corsi and Fenwick are where analytics are, +/- is flawed. Hanafin played in the first line, adjusted for competition he had one of the better defensive seasons out of them all as did the other rookie on their team Slavin who played even better. Both of them are younger than Hutton and play on a worse team similar minutes per-game. If you want to get into plus minus, Hutton led all rookies with -21, against easier competition on most nights (ie against weaker lines) than his peers.

Have a look at his number's without the puck. He's not too great at defending at this level, he is exceptional with the puck,at possessing and scoring. Again, the position is defense, not rear wing.
- neem55

I migine you are talking about his corsi and Fenwick against?

I think you should make your analysis on abilities, not on statistics where he was required to play outside his skill level. Seriously, the guy is a 1st year player, playing well above anything his had to endure in college, 39 college games and 4 AHL games to 75 NHL games, no Tanev, no Edler, and no Hamhuis for large segments but statistically he's second worst... geez wonder why.

Next up, Bo is suspect because statistically he is horrible on the +/-, regardless of situational requirements placed on him
- Makita

But, Bo's adjusted corsi is quite good, because he plays against the best of the best and has so many defensive zone starts. Hutton got sheltered for the first half of the season, as he should, and was thrown in over his head for sure when we faced injuries. To me he's very much like Gardiner or someone of that ilk, can he learn to defend... time will tell.

I migine you are talking about his corsi and Fenwick against?
- belcherbd

correct. Granted he plays with some forwards that are pretty dam bad at d, Karlsson gives up a lot of shots. If you further look at shot quality, you see he allows a lot in the slot/middle of the ice, or alot of those shots happen when he's on the ice. It got worse when they took him away from Methot cause he's a pretty good stay at home guy, Phaneuf has got similar issues to Karlsson.

I thought we had a deal Blues!
- neem55

It ain't over till we say it's over.

I'm not going to get into how irrelevant plus/minus is again. Corsi and Fenwick are where analytics are, +/- is flawed. Hanafin played in the first line, adjusted for competition he had one of the better defensive seasons out of them all as did the other rookie on their team Slavin who played even better. Both of them are younger than Hutton and play on a worse team similar minutes per-game. If you want to get into plus minus, Hutton led all rookies with -21, against easier competition on most nights (ie against weaker lines) than his peers.
- neem55

So you can find better stats on more stable teams. Big surprise.

Nothing is equal. On paper, you are concerned. I need to see a season where things are not a giant cluster (frank) to make comparisons to other teams.

correct. Granted he plays with some forwards that are pretty dam bad at d, Karlsson gives up a lot of shots. If you further look at shot quality, you see he allows a lot in the slot/middle of the ice, or alot of those shots happen when he's on the ice. It got worse when they took him away from Methot cause he's a pretty good stay at home guy, Phaneuf has got similar issues to Karlsson.
- neem55

In the past 2 seasons he ranks first among his teammates at 54.19 CA/60.....

In the past 2 seasons he ranks first among his teammates at 54.19 CA/60.....
- belcherbd

Not sure where you're looking, war-on-ice says different.

So you can find better stats on more stable teams. Big surprise.

Nothing is equal. On paper, you are concerned. I need to see a season where things are not a giant cluster (frank) to make comparisons to other teams.
- boonerbuck

I've done the eye test plenty, he gets burned game in and game out. In the playoffs he's especially exposed. He produces so many points it almost doesn't matter, almost. When push comes to shove and it's a seven game series there's a fair few guys I'd rather have. The one that really gets me is the high danger shots he allows, he generates so many shots on the ice it can be hard to see.

Not sure where you're looking, war-on-ice says different.
- neem55

I wasn't looking at war-on-ice but I did and here is him at 54.68 and only one player who played 16 games had a lower CA/60.

Same deal for FA/60, SCA/60 he is 3rd.

HSCA/60 is 9th out of 14 but imo it is still pretty objective.



http://war-on-ice.com/pla...2016-04-24&splitseasons=0

I wasn't looking at war-on-ice but I did and here is him at 54.68 and only one player who played 16 games had a lower CA/60.

Same deal for FA/60, SCA/60 he is 3rd.

HSCA/60 is 9th out of 14 but imo it is still pretty objective.



http://war-on-ice.com/pla...2016-04-24&splitseasons=0
- belcherbd

Again, your not factoring two years, you were factoring 3, including one where he had shltered minutes. ove the last two his corsi is 52. If you look at dangerous shots over that same preiod of time, you will see he allows a lot. Also, if you compare his number to other elite d-men, he's not up there.

Stats with the eye test work best.
Eg we pass into feet so often or take too long moving the puck.
Youth play generally is inconsistent as was shown last year.
Constant lineup flux is a problem for any team.

All can be remedied once JB can bolster us with a better core of vets & the kids show progress after one years seasoning & an offseason of workouts & training. The kids will find it harder to make the team IMO.
WD will be under the microscope for sure & its his job to pick up his own game once JB supplies him the 2016-17 roster. Its prolly poop or get off the pot for WD.

I'm not going to get into how irrelevant plus/minus is again. Corsi and Fenwick are where analytics are, +/- is flawed. Hanafin played in the first line, adjusted for competition he had one of the better defensive seasons out of them all as did the other rookie on their team Slavin who played even better. Both of them are younger than Hutton and play on a worse team similar minutes per-game. If you want to get into plus minus, Hutton led all rookies with -21, against easier competition on most nights (ie against weaker lines) than his peers.
- neem55

Something tells me Jordan Subban ends up a Pen

Something tells me Jordan Subban ends up a Pen
- PVL29

Something tells me Jordan Subban ends up a Pen
- PVL29

Bring it on. They have two 2nd rounders this year.

Something tells me Jordan Subban ends up a Pen
- PVL29

Better open up the vaults then, his feelings cost extra.

Vanity of Vanity 6, protege of Prince and former girlfriend , died 67 days before in Feb , 2016. They were both into Evangelistic ministry.

Discuss


They were both black , and on the same day we are discussing a Subban trade. Coincidence ? I think not.

Hockey at 9am today, Caps vs Flyers, gonna be a great Sunday!

Hockey at 9am today, Caps vs Flyers, gonna be a great Sunday!
- LeftCoaster

Go to church , heathen.



I actually was putting wifi into an Anglican Church on Tuesday ( in the office) , they said they did not want it in the actual church area . They thought people would not pay attention to the service. I told them they would probably get more people going to church if they could stream Sunday football

Gonna be interesting to see what happens with the Kings and Rangers, suspect a bunch of re-tooling in both places.

Go to church , heathen.



I actually was putting wifi into an Anglican Church on Tuesday ( in the office) , they said they did not want it in the actual church area . They thought people would not pay attention to the service. I told them they would probably get more people going to church if they could stream Sunday football
- VANTEL

you're always thinking.

Dustin Brown's actual salary payment for next year/season is 7 million....da (frank)

Kopitar's is 14 million, but he's worth it!

Gaborik's is 6 million

you're always thinking.
- LeftCoaster

I look at it this way, at Filipino church they bring food and lots of singing. They love Karaoke and eating.

Methodist bring high energy choirs , because let's face it what black person doesn't like singing.

So it's time for middle age white guy to combine religion with football.can you imagine how intense it would be when the minister says " Can I get a Hallaluja " the same time your team scores a TD. Some old guy I the back stands up spikes the ball and screams Praise the Lord. It could go the other way too if he yells F$ck yeah.