Awful. Similar to Patrick White, Shink, Gaunce, CoHo... need I go on? I mean we've seen so many busts at forward, I'm a little shocked you guys don't want to see more d picks. I think either way JB is the guy to do it, but how many times do we have to see it?
- neem55

yes but none of those were top 5 quality like in this draft.

Thats why we r not takin D 1st round. Only trading down will we if JB sees it a better option.
- Nighthawk

It's all conjecture until we see where we are picking.

Tree is the only D prospect we need. Pair him with Subbans feelings and he will be unstoppable
- CanuckDon

I like that as a future pairing👍🏻

There are plenty of rookies and d-men his age playing more minutes and that are better defensively. I agree, his minutes should have been less. That's more of a reflection of his ability than age or experience. I hope he gets better defensively but think he's not very good without the puck, as I've said many times.
I have considered that he played top-4 (not top 2) minutes, he was moved into more minutes when Edler got injured and his numbers plummeted, that doesn't suggest someone with top-4 next year written on him but, in fact, the opposite. It's hard to forecast beyond next year, he's definitely young enough that top-4 could happen eventually. I'm not that high on the guy, I like his offensive output is great though. Bottom pair next year is ideal.
- neem55

What stats prove those same aged rookies would look as good as they have on the Canucks?

His stats wouldn't have been anywhere near as bad if his minutes were handled typical of a rookie player. Circumstances couldn't allow that with Hamhuis, Edler and Sbisa out for long term injuries.

Never played pro and played as a top 2 D for much of the season... surprised you wouldn't consider this in your criticisms.
- boonerbuck

Exactly. So ripping Hutton is offbase.

How high were you on Tanev after his rookie year?
- A_SteamingLombardi

Not very, the difference being he was recruited for his defensive ability. I didn't know anything about him to be honest, but he's pretty impressive. Nothing flashy, but good at his job. I'm not sure Hutton has the ability to get there as far as position goes, but I hope to be wrong. He and Tree did look like a good pair for those 6 or 7 games toward the end there.

Exactly. So ripping Hutton is offbase.
- Nighthawk

I don't know if anyone is exactly ripping Hutton.
Most were pleasantly surprised with his development (same with Tanev before). But with both Hutton and Tanev they lack that true top 2 D element that excites fans.

They are safe, reliable Dmen.
As noted before, at this point in their careers, they lack the physicality, or offense to take them to that next level.

Good Dmen, just 3-4 Dmen at this stage in their careers.

What stats prove those same aged rookies would look as good as they have on the Canucks?



- boonerbuck

The two Carolina kids and Ghost in philly, those two teams are compatibly bad at d I'd say. Similar to Murray in Columbus. Again, I'm raging on Hutton only because I don't see much defensive ability. I see the upsde of having on the powerplay. I hope to be eating my words this time next year and that he picks up the skills from guys like Tanev and Hammer if he returns.

yes but none of those were top 5 quality like in this draft.
- Nighthawk

That's fair. For me there are a few I would pick at 4 or 5 and be happy with. I can understnd why others don't see it that way.

Man.
Chicago is a tough building to play in.

Not very, the difference being he was recruited for his defensive ability. I didn't know anything about him to be honest, but he's pretty impressive. Nothing flashy, but good at his job. I'm not sure Hutton has the ability to get there as far as position goes, but I hope to be wrong. He and Tree did look like a good pair for those 6 or 7 games toward the end there.
- neem55

We need defense men who can score as well.

Hutton rookie year 25 pts in 75 games .333 ppg
Tanev rookie year 1 pt in 29 games .034 ppg

Man.
Chicago is a tough building to play in.

- dbot

It's that (frank)ing goal song.

The two Carolina kids and Ghost in philly, those two teams are compatibly bad at d I'd say. Similar to Murray in Columbus. Again, I'm raging on Hutton only because I don't see much defensive ability. I see the upsde of having on the powerplay. I hope to be eating my words this time next year and that he picks up the skills from guys like Tanev and Hammer if he returns.
- neem55

My problem with is we lack offense & defense can be taught.
Again...Hutton is a converted F & only 22.

Ghost and Hutton are born on the same day same year.

My problem with is we lack offense & defense can be taught.
Again...Hutton is a converted F & only 22.
- Nighthawk

"C"

Ghost and Hutton are born on the same day same year.
- A_SteamingLombardi

Lets claim they were switched at birth. Ghost is ours😜

My problem with is we lack offense & defense can be taught.
Again...Hutton is a converted F & only 22.
- Nighthawk

If defence can be taught why is Karlsson still sub-par? Why are so many AHLer's not able to make the jump. Not everyone has the capacity to deploy the positioning and stickwork needed to be an NHL d-man, no matter how much they train or practice. The idea that somehow defense is a skill that anyone can do and be taught is absurd, same as offensive skills.

I had no idea he was a converted player, that explains a lot.

We need defense men who can score as well.

Hutton rookie year 25 pts in 75 games .333 ppg
Tanev rookie year 1 pt in 29 games .034 ppg
- A_SteamingLombardi

I agree. Play him on the bottom pair and on the powerplay, don't deploy him in the defensive zone.

Man.
Chicago is a tough building to play in.

- dbot

I thought we had a deal Blues!

If defence can be taught why is Karlsson still sub-par? Why are so many AHLer's not able to make the jump. Not everyone has the capacity to deploy the positioning and stickwork needed to be an NHL d-man, no matter how much they train or practice. The idea that somehow defense is a skill that anyone can do and be taught is absurd, same as offensive skills.

I had no idea he was a converted player, that explains a lot.
- neem55

If thats correct why r there so few offensive D like Karlsson in history?
I played D & playing smart was easier than thinking i was Bobby Orr.
Its absurd to believe teaching defense is so hard to do.

If defence can be taught why is Karlsson still sub-par? Why are so many AHLer's not able to make the jump. Not everyone has the capacity to deploy the positioning and stickwork needed to be an NHL d-man, no matter how much they train or practice. The idea that somehow defense is a skill that anyone can do and be taught is absurd, same as offensive skills.

I had no idea he was a converted player, that explains a lot.
- neem55

You are on crack if you think Karlsson's defense is "sub par".

I thought we had a deal Blues!
- neem55

just checked my nhl playoff predictions.


I had LA over SJ and Det over TBL....not fairing so good.

I did get Pitts right tho!

Hutton is still a maybe for me. I know he's Jesus on this board but to me he's statistically the second worst defensive d-man on the team (Behind Bart who is also awful), and that means no top-4.
- neem55

I think you should make your analysis on abilities, not on statistics where he was required to play outside his skill level. Seriously, the guy is a 1st year player, playing well above anything his had to endure in college, 39 college games and 4 AHL games to 75 NHL games, no Tanev, no Edler, and no Hamhuis for large segments but statistically he's second worst... geez wonder why.

Next up, Bo is suspect because statistically he is horrible on the +/-, regardless of situational requirements placed on him

The two Carolina kids and Ghost in philly, those two teams are compatibly bad at d I'd say. Similar to Murray in Columbus. Again, I'm raging on Hutton only because I don't see much defensive ability. I see the upsde of having on the powerplay. I hope to be eating my words this time next year and that he picks up the skills from guys like Tanev and Hammer if he returns.
- neem55

Are you talking about Hafinin? He's a -14 and has 22 points. I don't see any of their young D standing out above Hutton enough to be discouraging and sure as hell didnt see them thrown into what Hutton was.

Philly is a playoff team. Not many teams dealt with the Canucks problems this season. Our 2nd line C who is our best defensive forward was out for almost the entire season, that really makes a difference for our D. Edler and Hamhuis combined for a season of man games lost as well.

I understand your argument but the way you just compare everything as stats or on paper seldom paints a complete picture.

You are on crack if you think Karlsson's defense is "sub par".
- belcherbd