Nurse isn't a top 4 on a good team right now. He is more a suspect still. - Oneonta Penguin
He isn't a new car that reduces in value once it's driven off the lot.
Too funny how people value top 10 draft picks until they play an NHL game and show somewhat less than NHL All-Star immediately, their value has dropped .
I would venture to say Darnell Nurse, 3 years after he was drafted, a bigger, stronger faster, with 2 extra years of Junior, a World Juniors MVP performance, AHL playoff experience and a full ,albeit tough, year in the NHL , would be worth more, don't ya think?
Again, it's the 6 year old boy with a shiny new toy mentality. Love it while it's still in the box. 5 minutes after opening he puts it down and starts playing with his dink.
Ever heard of Alexei Marchenko? Drafted in the 7th round by the Red Wings in 2011.
He is playing good minutes on TEAM RUSSIA IN this year's WC.
He is a RSD, big, aggressive, two-way defender, that can play incredibly smart hockey. He is mostly known for his great defensive plays and he has an amazing outlet pass.
The reason no one knows who this guy is is because he is playing third pairing minutes for Detroit with Smith, who formed the best defensive pairing Detroit via advanced stats and by visual play.
Even most Detroit fans are undervaluing him. Some view him as a depth defender, but I have a good feeling he is going to be a steal for the Red Wings, unless Edmonton can acquire him. Hell even Jiri Fisher, one of the staff on Detroit's player devellpment board states that MArchenko's career has been "highly under the radar."
Edmonton needs a two way defender that can play solid defensively and can help out the offense with great transition across the neutral zone, something we struggle with A LOT. Getting Barrie, Vatenen, or even Shattenkirk woudl definitely help us with offesnive transition, but it still doesn't solve our problems in our defensive zone since most of them listed are offensive defenders (Vatenen isn't that great defensively, Barrie is alright defensively, and Shattenkirk is alright defensively, but the contract issue with him could be a kilelr for us). That is why Trouba, imo, is the best candidate if Edmnoton is going to get a guy that will cost us.
Edit: I might even do a blog about him. - EdmHockeyMan
(frank) unproven KHL defenders. Have you forgotten about Anton (frank)ing Belov already?
(frank) unproven KHL defenders. Have you forgotten about Anton (frank)ing Belov already? - Jeropotato
Did you watch the video? He is completely different than Belov. He wanted to sign and play in North America right after he was drafted. He has also spent 2-3 years in the AHL developing and acknowledging N.A.'s style of game, and this has been his first year in the NHL. Jiri Fisher provides a fantastic analysis and scouting report about him. He was projected to be drafted in the 3rd-4th round, but like you said, the Russian factor scared a lot of teams away. Well, he has completely disproved that.
As for Belov, he went directly from the KHL to the NHL with no development and no guaranteed interest that he wanted to permanently stay. He is a good overall player, but he just had no interest in learning and playing the N.A. style of hockey at all
Marchenko is the exact opposite. I wouldn't call him unproven either. He has had a great previous season with the Red Wings, but he is an under the radar guy Edmonton would love to get its hands on. He is already playing for Team Russia in the WC and he is logging a good amonut of minutes, along with 3 points in 8-9 games.
Did you watch the video? He is completely different than Belov. He wanted to sign and play in North America right after he was drafted. He has also spent 2 years in the AHL developing and acknowledging N.A.'s style of game, and this has been his first year in the NHL. Jiri Fisher provides a fantastic analysis and scouting report about him. He was projected to be drafted in the 3rd-4th round, but like you said, the Russian factor scared a lot of teams away. Well, he has completely disproved that.
As for Belov, he went directly from the KHL to the NHL with no development and no guaranteed interest that he wanted to permanently stay. He is a good overall player, but he just had no interest in learning and playing the N.A. style of hockey at all
Marchenko is the exact opposite. I wouldn't call him unproven either. He has had a great previous season with the Red Wings, but he is an under the radar guy Edmonton would love to get its hands on. He is already playing for Team Russia in the WC and he is logging a good amonut of minutes, along with 3 points in 8-9 games.
Hey, I'm open to anything that makes this team better, especially low risk/high reward moves. - Jeropotato
Precisely.
The only problem is what Detroit woudl want from us. They definitely would like a 2C center since Zetterberg andDatsyuk are about to retire and their best replacement right now is only Larkin.
There is no way in hell that we would send RNH (The guy Detroit would love since he plays a great defensive game that would suit Detroit/Blashill's playing style) for just Marchenko. Nonetheless, I feel like Edmonton can be the definite winners in a deal that involves those two. Detroit would have to give a lot more, but they desperately need a 2C that can play with Larkin, so we have an upper hand.
Of course I am against trading RNH unless it is for a bonafide, but if Detroit overpays, Chia would definitely be willing to listen, especially if Evgeny is in the talks.
People are highly underestimating Marchenko, hell I might even write a blog about him. His advanced stats, his age, frame, and ability are going to surprise many really soon.
Edit: Stamkos is NOT the answer for them. As amazing Stamkos is, he will be putting the Red Wings in Cap hell if that were to happen.
Ever heard of Alexei Marchenko? Drafted in the 7th round by the Red Wings in 2011.
He is playing good minutes on TEAM RUSSIA IN this year's WC.
He is a RSD, big, aggressive, two-way defender, that can play incredibly smart hockey. He is mostly known for his great defensive plays and he has an amazing outlet pass.
The reason no one knows who this guy is is because he is playing third pairing minutes for Detroit with Smith, who formed the best defensive pairing Detroit via advanced stats and by visual play.
Even most Detroit fans are undervaluing him. Some view him as a depth defender, but I have a good feeling he is going to be a steal for the Red Wings, unless Edmonton can acquire him. Hell even Jiri Fisher, one of the staff on Detroit's player devellpment board states that MArchenko's career has been "highly under the radar."
Edmonton needs a two way defender that can play solid defensively and can help out the offense with great transition across the neutral zone, something we struggle with A LOT. Getting Barrie, Vatenen, or even Shattenkirk woudl definitely help us with offesnive transition, but it still doesn't solve our problems in our defensive zone since most of them listed are offensive defenders (Vatenen isn't that great defensively, Barrie is alright defensively, and Shattenkirk is alright defensively, but the contract issue with him could be a kilelr for us). That is why Trouba, imo, is the best candidate if Edmnoton is going to get a guy that will cost us.
Edit: I might even do a blog about him. - EdmHockeyMan
Just because the fans are undervaluing him doesn't mean the red wings are. And as you point out the wings staff say good things about him. It sounds like the red wings like the kid. I dunno why they'd trade him with low value.
Also how is shattenkirk "alright" defensively. I'm so sick and tired of people pegging offensive defensman as bad or ok defensive dmen. Shattenkirk is somewhat physical and he's great at break up the cycle and making a great pass out of the zone.
Can you please tell me some flaws that make you think he's "alright" defensively
Location: PC is a genius for drafting mcdavid Joined: 02.20.2007
May 22 @ 9:05 PM ET
Are you actually saying you wouldn't move LD and our 4th for Keith or Doughty? I would poop/piss/ejaculate simultaneously if that trade went down. - Jeropotato
Location: PC is a genius for drafting mcdavid Joined: 02.20.2007
May 22 @ 9:12 PM ET
He isn't a new car that reduces in value once it's driven off the lot.
Too funny how people value top 10 draft picks until they play an NHL game and show somewhat less than NHL All-Star immediately, their value has dropped .
I would venture to say Darnell Nurse, 3 years after he was drafted, a bigger, stronger faster, with 2 extra years of Junior, a World Juniors MVP performance, AHL playoff experience and a full ,albeit tough, year in the NHL , would be worth more, don't ya think?
Again, it's the 6 year old boy with a shiny new toy mentality. Love it while it's still in the box. 5 minutes after opening he puts it down and starts playing with his dink. - Jeropotato
this
Every year it's the same. The new hot sh1t kid is always worth so much.
But that's bs really. There is absolutely zero chance anyone outside those top 3 picks are worth as much as nurse is. And furthermore, if the aforementioned hard on for the "next" kid wasn't always the case, not sure they should be either...
But I'll concede those top 3 are pretty special so maybe they are exceptions to most of the rule
Ebs too much with the 4th imo. Even substantially too much.
But maybe I'm homerin abit
4th and reinhart maybe ? Oesterle?
I love poo, but maybe I'd consider him as well - HB77
I agree with the Ebs part. I think Ebs for Barrie is close to a fair trade but we might have to add a tad. I think poo might be an overpayment as well but I can't really think what else would get it done.
I think Buff and MTL would be our best shot at trading down. Draft is in Buff and Tim Murray might want to make a bang and MTL might wanna grab there French saviour.
Just because the fans are undervaluing him doesn't mean the red wings are. And as you point out the wings staff say good things about him. It sounds like the red wings like the kid. I dunno why they'd trade him with low value.
Also how is shattenkirk "alright" defensively. I'm so sick and tired of people pegging offensive defensman as bad or ok defensive dmen. Shattenkirk is somewhat physical and he's great at break up the cycle and making a great pass out of the zone.
Can you please tell me some flaws that make you think he's "alright" defensively - kessellover69
You're definitely right about his trade value, but the only way Detroit would want to trade with us is if they are getting a 2C back. Obviously that would be RNH, but that would be quite an overpayment. Marchenko is gonna be a great top 4 player in my books, but I don't know if he can inch his way into the top 2 role, furthermore, he is not close to RNH value and Detroit would definitely have to sweeten up the offer by a lot. You're definitely right about what the Red Wings think about him and in the end, it is up to how badly their GM need a 2C. I would love to see us get Evgeny and Marchenko out of Detroit if they want RNH though.
As for the Shattenkirk comment, I get what you''re saying and yes, Shattenkirk can play defense, but at times, he does leave his defensive post to join the rush. This is what makes an offensive defender an offensive defender. His first instinct will always be to join the rush and provide offense. Don't get me wrong, out of Shattenkirk, Vatenen, Barrie, and Trouba, Shattenkirk is the better VALUE defender, but his contract scenario would put us in a tough spot and I feel that Trouba is the better overall defender that can play a great offensive and defensive game. I think Trouba would be the better pickup since he is also a RFA and for the reason I stated earlier.
Think about it like this: 9/10 offensively, yet 7/10 defensively OR 8/10 offensively, yet 8/10 defensively.
I just think Trouba would benefit Edmonton more because he plays a better defensive game compared to Shattenkirk and we need a defender who can actually play a solid and consistent defensive game, but don't get me wrong, Shattenkirk is the better VALUE defender, but his contract situation would put Edmonton in a tough spot.
You're definitely right about his trade value, but the only way Detroit would want to trade with us is if they are getting a 2C back. Obviously that would be RNH, but that would be quite an overpayment. Marchenko is gonna be a great top 4 player in my books, but I don't know if he can inch his way into the top 2 role, furthermore, he is not close to RNH value and Detroit would definitely have to sweeten up the offer by a lot. You're definitely right about what the Red Wings think about him and in the end, it is up to how badly their GM need a 2C. I would love to see us get Evgeny and Marchenko out of Detroit if they want RNH though.
As for the Shattenkirk comment, I get what you''re saying and yes, Shattenkirk can play defense, but at times, he does leave his defensive post to join the rush. This is what makes an offensive defender an offensive defender. His first instinct will always be to join the rush and provide offense. Don't get me wrong, out of Shattenkirk, Vatenen, Barrie, and Trouba, Shattenkirk is the better VALUE defender, but his contract scenario would put us in a tough spot and I feel that Trouba is the better overall defender that can play a great offensive and defensive game. I think Trouba would be the better pickup since he is also a RFA and for the reason I stated earlier.
Think about it like this: 9/10 offensively, yet 7/10 defensively OR 8/10 offensively, yet 8/10 defensively.
I just think Trouba would benefit Edmonton more because he plays a better defensive game compared to Shattenkirk and we need a defender who can actually play a solid and consistent defensive game, but don't get me wrong, Shattenkirk is the better VALUE defender, but his contract situation would put Edmonton in a tough spot. - EdmHockeyMan
Trouba seems to have regressed a little bit (offensively anyways) every year since his rookie year. He is only 22 years old. If Winnipeg is even willing to part with him does that concern you?
Trouba seems to have regressed a little bit (offensively anyways) every year since his rookie year. He is only 22 years old. If Winnipeg is even willing to part with him does that concern you? - kessellover69
Considering Winnipeg's cap situation, I don't think so. They have to sign a few good players in the following years and their RHD depth is amazing. They have Myers, Byfuglien, AND trouba all playing on the right side. Their left side is pretty good too. To me, Winnipeg is a defensive juggarnaut. Losing Trouba will probably be the least of their concerns if they cannot resign Scheifele, who should be their #1 concern right now. Morrisey and Hutchinson are a couple of the other players that are gonna be on top of their mind in a few years as well.
Nonetheless, I woudl actually go after Trouba rather than Shattenkirk if both were available. Trouba just plays an amazing defensive game that would be more beneficial to a team like Edmonton. Shattenkirk is an elite offensive defender that can play defense, but Trouba just plays a better, more consistent, and more present defensive game. This would allow players like Klefbom (Who can play a great offensive game) to actually join the rush and not worry about leaving the goalie in a 3-0 situation. Nurse is also a type of player who loves to join the rush. They are both two-way defenders that can benefit more from a player like Trouba than a player like Shattenkirk.
There's no realistic deal where Leon gets moved - HB77
You're right. There's no realistic deal, because if you think LD is going to get you an elite defenseman, you've hit your head on something. He's been a good player, worth every bit of the hype, but when people here are talking about LD or Hall for a Kieth, Doughty, or Weber, it makes me believe you're seriously overvaluing your players. In no universe does a great LW (the Hall scenario mentioned earlier) = a star defenseman. You are aware that other teams also know that a championship is built from the back end, right?
You're right. There's no realistic deal, because if you think LD is going to get you an elite defenseman, you've hit your head on something. He's been a good player, worth every bit of the hype, but when people here are talking about LD or Hall for a Kieth, Doughty, or Weber, it makes me believe you're seriously overvaluing your players. In no universe does a great LW (the Hall scenario mentioned earlier) = a star defenseman. You are aware that other teams also know that a championship is built from the back end, right? - KickSave1980
Nobody said that any team would trade Hall for a top 2 one-for-one. Edmonton's belief is that WE would only move Hall if a top 2 is coming back. Anything less than that is a huge step back for us. Given our precious few assets we have to offer, we simply can't afford to be burned on a trade for one of our young guns.
Really?!! I don't see many coaches who would want to try to fit in either Radulov or Yakupov. If he's dealt, it won't be for any sure-thing players. The Habs still remember an enigmatic Russian gamble that failed last season.
