We were talking about his pro talent evaluation and I'm using the amount he has paid those players as an indicator of how good players he thinks they are, maybe that's not fair.

I agree it's hard to fill that 20-25 gap when you only have picks, that doesn't mean that trying to fast-track the rebuild by using those picks will work or more to the point is working.
- belcherbd

What would you do in Bennings shoes? He certainly doesn't have the luxury of a 5 year span without playoffs if he wants to remain employed. The "hybrid rebuild" is his only option....I actually don't mind it..I pay to watch the games and losing is

Edit. If tanking for 3 years would guarantee we win a cup within 7 years I suspect every fan would sign up. Sadly, it's not how it works. Losing is contagious

Thats incredibly unfair and unreasonable.....so many factors go into these negotiations that we aren't privy to that as outsiders it is extremely short-sighted to evaluate any GM/scouts ability based on what the player is paid....its downright ridiculous......
- chompsey

Ok, what do you think would be a more reasonable way to measure his expectations of players?

What would you do in Bennings shoes? He certainly doesn't have the luxury of a 5 year span without playoffs if he wants to remain employed. The "hybrid rebuild" is his only option....I actually don't mind it..I pay to watch the games and losing is

Edit. If tanking for 3 years would guarantee we win a cup within 7 years I suspect every fan would sign up. Sadly, it's not how it works. Losing is contagious
- CanuckDon

I would do a worse job, I'm sure..... I'm okay with him a the helm, I just haven't been impressed with the NHL talent he has brought in. I have hope that his drafting will prevail but would be a lot more hopeful if he had more picks.

I wouldn't be surprised that Aquaman is pressuring him to win now/soon but again we are talking about his ability to do that and from what I have seen, I don't think he has been able to. Is he in a tough position? sure but it is what it is.

What would you do in Bennings shoes? He certainly doesn't have the luxury of a 5 year span without playoffs if he wants to remain employed. The "hybrid rebuild" is his only option....I actually don't mind it..I pay to watch the games and losing is

Edit. If tanking for 3 years would guarantee we win a cup within 7 years I suspect every fan would sign up. Sadly, it's not how it works. Losing is contagious
- CanuckDon

Just look at the Oilers.

Bonino was slow here in Vancouver . He had 9 goals until late in the season. When Hagelin came in his game changed. If you put Sutter between Hagelin and Kessel I am sure he could throw up decent numbers.


Canucks said all the right things about McCann . McCanns team mates were the ones that threw him under the bus not management.

Thats incredibly unfair and unreasonable.....so many factors go into these negotiations that we aren't privy to that as outsiders it is extremely short-sighted to evaluate any GM/scouts ability based on what the player is paid....its downright ridiculous......
- chompsey

So darn unfair, I mean come on, think about his feelings guys...

Sutter would of been a UFA this season, his new contract doesn't kick in until next season, he was extended soon after the deal last season.

I am making assumptions based off of comments that Benning has made and the amount of money he has paid those players. I don't think those players I mentioned have lived up to their contracts but perhaps Benning does.

I don't see how paying Dorsett 2.65 a year to be punched in face is living up to expectations but I don't know. I like Dorsett as a good 4th liner who can actually play hockey but he is overpaid. Miller, had a better year this season but still paid a premium for a at best average starter. Sbisa he described as a top 4 D man, he has improved but I don't think many believe he will become one. Bart was expensive depth but I will agree Weber was actually a good signing considering how he did the year previous, but he did lose his top 4 spot and ended up being waived.
- belcherbd

Why are you not a GM

Mac Donnie & Moj @BMacDonnieMoj .

Poll Question: If Bonino wins the Conn Smythe trophy, will the Bonino-Sutter deal be the worst Canucks trade of all time?

Why are you not a GM

- VANTEL

So you are happy with how the team has performed the last couple of season? I could of sworn you hated this soft team that disappeared during the playoffs?

Feel free to actually contribute to what Don and I were talking about, Benning's ability to evaluate NHL talent.

I usually like having discussions with you despite disagreeing often but it's not worth engaging if you just want to throw out nonsensical one liners.

Mac Donnie & Moj @BMacDonnieMoj .

Poll Question: If Bonino wins the Conn Smythe trophy, will the Bonino-Sutter deal be the worst Canucks trade of all time?


- hillbillydeluxe

That's amazing!

Mac Donnie & Moj @BMacDonnieMoj .

Poll Question: If Bonino wins the Conn Smythe trophy, will the Bonino-Sutter deal be the worst Canucks trade of all time?


- hillbillydeluxe

And they call me a troll

I think what most forget to consider is that the draft is the draft, everyone gets a fair chance to select any player they want when its their turn. When it comes to the 5th pick, Vancouver can pick anyone they want aside from the 4 players chosen ahead, JB's uninhibited chance to get the player he wants.

Acquiring players and prospects after they have been drafted then becomes a lot more challenging. Yes, JB would love to have blue chip prospects and young guns that will bring an immediate impact, but those other NHL teams also have pretty good scouts who are advising their GM not to trade them away. His eye for talent I think is equal, but the opportunities to showcase that is tougher because its easier to for other GM's to decline a trade and hope the prospect pans out than to deal one and see him blossom in Vancouver. Teams have to feel comfortable giving up on a guy or that they are getting the better end of a deal
- WhiteLie

Benning stepped into a situation that was a mess. Aging veterans, empty prospect cupboard, no cap space, NTC's, etc., etc. On top of that he's a rookie GM. The man has been dealing from a position of weakness in virtually every possible way.

His strategy of taking RFA's and prospects at the end of the line with their former clubs was pretty much the only thing he could do given that he also had a mandate from ownership to win and put butts in seats. If he was in (another market) he could have just signed whatever UFA's he could find in the bargain bin and then hoped to leverage those into more draft picks and hope some worked out in 3-4 years. He doesn't have that luxury here. He needs to have a whole new competitive roster before his first five years is up.

Although I understand the limitations that have handicapped his moves to a large extent, I don't think he's done all that well with trades and negotiations.

The Penguins desperately needed cap space and had come to that fork in the road where they needed to part with Sutter, whose numbers weren't exactly stellar. Benning's package was too rich for a player the other team needed to move just as much as Benning wanted him. Benning then immediately signed him to a contact that was above market value. Not a big issue at this point, but if he needs to part ways with that player in a year or two, it will be kinda like he gave him a NMC.

Same thing with Gudbranson. The Panthers don't have room for him anymore with the emergence of Matheson. His cap hit was disproportionate to the role he played there. Adding the 33rd overall to a first round pick who's already got a year in the NHL under his belt was too steep a price. A third or fourth rounder should have been enough, especially if the other team is calling you.

Not saying he's targeting the wrong players, but he's overpaying to get them and then signing them for more than their market value. Maybe he doesn't think he'll be here in a few years so he's not as concerned about the long-term consequences, but the pattern is starting to look kinda scary.

And they call me a troll
- A_SteamingLombardi

You earned your label. Get back under your bridge troll

Mac Donnie & Moj @BMacDonnieMoj .

Poll Question: If Bonino wins the Conn Smythe trophy, will the Bonino-Sutter deal be the worst Canucks trade of all time?


- hillbillydeluxe

Whats the statute of limitations when b!tching about trades. 2 years? 5 years? Can I still complain about he Bure trade, or the Neely trade?

So you are happy with how the team has performed the last couple of season? I could of sworn you hated this soft team that disappeared during the playoffs?

Feel free to actually contribute to what Don and I were talking about, Benning's ability to evaluate NHL talent.

I usually like having discussions with you despite disagreeing often but it's not worth engaging if you just want to throw out nonsensical one liners.
- belcherbd

This city and the GM wannabes per capita is ridiculous. Benning can't assess talent . Benning doesn't know how to trade. Benning doesn't know how to speak . Benning can't can't can't. Yikes

Benning cant pull trades at TDL. 2 words Roberto Luongo . Two years in the making finally the agent pulled it off. We forget how slow Gillis was at moving players.

Sutter deals sucks. Do yourself a favour. Go see what Canucks record was when Sutter played as opposed to when he didn't play.

We need a top 4 Dman . We trade for one and again the whining .

Tell me what do you think the cost to ger a third overall 6'5 RHD cost? Higgins and Burrows?

Forsling: wow The Defensive Anton Rodin was traded. Now we will never win a cup.

Benning walked in to an old core with 9 yes 9 NTC/NMC and 0 prospects aside from Bo Tanev and a drug addict. If people cant see how he has improved the team then we are just wasting time.

For the first time we have some good news in our system.

Sutter would of been a UFA this season, his new contract doesn't kick in until next season, he was extended soon after the deal last season.

I am making assumptions based off of comments that Benning has made and the amount of money he has paid those players. I don't think those players I mentioned have lived up to their contracts but perhaps Benning does.

I don't see how paying Dorsett 2.65 a year to be punched in face is living up to expectations but I don't know. I like Dorsett as a good 4th liner who can actually play hockey but he is overpaid. Miller, had a better year this season but still paid a premium for a at best average starter. Sbisa he described as a top 4 D man, he has improved but I don't think many believe he will become one. Bart was expensive depth but I will agree Weber was actually a good signing considering how he did the year previous, but he did lose his top 4 spot and ended up being waived.
- belcherbd

On a team that's looking to roll 4 lines and already has some size up front, I don't mind Dorsett as a fourth liner. But at a salary of no more than $1.2 - $1.5. He's completely ineffective as a lightweight 'enforcer' and that's a fairly significant problem for a soft team like the Canucks.

On a team that's looking to roll 4 lines and already has some size up front, I don't mind Dorsett as a fourth liner. But at a salary of no more than $1.2 - $1.5. He's completely ineffective as a lightweight 'enforcer' and that's a fairly significant problem for a soft team like the Canucks.
- YeOldTimer

With how soft the team is, apparently JB had to overpay to get someone to fill that role.

With how soft the team is, apparently JB had to overpay to get someone to fill that role.
- hillbillydeluxe

I would love to see Gudbrandson pair up with Tryamkin for a while so Tree can learn how to play big

Benning stepped into a situation that was a mess. Aging veterans, empty prospect cupboard, no cap space, NTC's, etc., etc. On top of that he's a rookie GM. The man has been dealing from a position of weakness in virtually every possible way.

His strategy of taking RFA's and prospects at the end of the line with their former clubs was pretty much the only thing he could do given that he also had a mandate from ownership to win and put butts in seats. If he was in (another market) he could have just signed whatever UFA's he could find in the bargain bin and then hoped to leverage those into more draft picks and hope some worked out in 3-4 years. He doesn't have that luxury here. He needs to have a whole new competitive roster before his first five years is up.

Although I understand the limitations that have handicapped his moves to a large extent, I don't think he's done all that well with trades and negotiations.

The Penguins desperately needed cap space and had come to that fork in the road where they needed to part with Sutter, whose numbers weren't exactly stellar. Benning's package was too rich for a player the other team needed to move just as much as Benning wanted him. Benning then immediately signed him to a contact that was above market value. Not a big issue at this point, but if he needs to part ways with that player in a year or two, it will be kinda like he gave him a NMC.

Same thing with Gudbranson. The Panthers don't have room for him anymore with the emergence of Matheson. His cap hit was disproportionate to the role he played there. Adding the 33rd overall to a first round pick who's already got a year in the NHL under his belt was too steep a price. A third or fourth rounder should have been enough, especially if the other team is calling you.

Not saying he's targeting the wrong players, but he's overpaying to get them and then signing them for more than their market value. Maybe he doesn't think he'll be here in a few years so he's not as concerned about the long-term consequences, but the pattern is starting to look kinda scary.
- YeOldTimer

In the discussion/debate about whether hes a good pro scout, I think that part of it needs to be removed from the discussion. As a GM he has shown less than desirable negotiation skills, particularly in contracts and some trades, but that doesnt really tell you how he values the players being acquired. That is determined by the accepting price of the other GM's (and as some have suggested, the mandate from ownership to make these deals happen).

In a vacuum and without mentioning what the team gave up, if you said in a 2 year window the Canucks would acquire in trades Gudbranson, Etem, Sven, Vey, Sbisa, Sutter, etc. I would be pretty happy with that influx of young NHL talent (though some are arguably fringe NHLers). If you factor in free agency (and again removing costs) where its easier to acquire talent than trades, he did well with Vbrata for the most part, Miller has been surprisingly decent particularly last season, and he was able to bring in Stecher and Garteig.

I think in terms of assessing pro talent, which a lot are debating, he is no worse off. Its when he has to negotiate with other GMs or agents where it becomes more challenging for him and result in his moves looking poorly

This city and the GM wannabes per capita is ridiculous. Benning can't assess talent . Benning doesn't know how to trade. Benning doesn't know how to speak . Benning can't can't can't. Yikes

Benning cant pull trades at TDL. 2 words Roberto Luongo . Two years in the making finally the agent pulled it off. We forget how slow Gillis was at moving players.

Sutter deals sucks. Do yourself a favour. Go see what Canucks record was when Sutter played as opposed to when he didn't play.

We need a top 4 Dman . We trade for one and again the whining .

Tell me what do you think the cost to ger a third overall 6'5 RHD cost? Higgins and Burrows?

Forsling: wow The Defensive Anton Rodin was traded. Now we will never win a cup.

Benning walked in to an old core with 9 yes 9 NTC/NMC and 0 prospects aside from Bo Tanev and a drug addict. If people cant see how he has improved the team then we are just wasting time.

For the first time we have some good news in our system.
- VANTEL

I really wonder if we ever do win a Cup if whoever is in management/HC will still be ripped unless the team goes 82-0 and 16-0 in the playoffs. Come to think of it, I think the fans would still find a way to rip them for something, maybe not giving out free gourmet hot dogs during the parade?

I would love to see Gudbrandson pair up with Tryamkin for a while so Tree can learn how to play big
- VANTEL

I think as soon as Tree knows the meaning of "play big" he will show us what he has.

I think as soon as Tree knows the meaning of "play big" he will show us what he has.
- A_SteamingLombardi

I fully expect him to make progress this year.

I would love to see Gudbrandson pair up with Tryamkin for a while so Tree can learn how to play big
- VANTEL

Trymkin needs conditioning. He was always out of breath and hunger over. I realize it takes a lot of oxygen to fuel that much muscle but he wasnt in NHL shape when he got here. I would pencil him in as a regular next season though.

Edit: Hunched over lol. I was thinking about how I am going to feel after golf tonight.

So I read day in and day out about JB and his drafting and trading, how he overpays to get the players he wants.

How and why does anyone know what the request was. Ye Old Timer says JB overpaid for Gudbranson, what is the information on this, to me it's purely speculative, does anyone know what was requested, same for Sutter, how the hell does anyone know what the asking price was.

What posters are alluding to is that team A requests this and that, but JB goes no, no, no you get this, that and the other thing. Maybe team A requested this, that and 2 other things, seriously what's the basis for over-payment, posters unqualified experience, hindsight a year or two later.

Love how everyone is a (frank)ing expert on everything hockey, and they would never over pay or make bad choices...

Whats the statute of limitations when b!tching about trades. 2 years? 5 years? Can I still complain about he Bure trade, or the Neely trade?
- fiveandagame

absolutely, hindsight means you're knowledgeable, and a hockey affichenado.