Read somewhere, CSN I believe, Hawks are second favorite to win the cup, hmmmmm

Obviously those people who decided that, (Vegas?) aren't posters on this board?

Or is it a fools bet..................................................

Its a trap!
- vabeachbear

I tweeted the Bovada line out early yesterday...Old habits die hard and the positive sentiment on some popular teams can linger. When it changes it can be by a good margin...For ex. the NYR are 18/1.

I tweeted the Bovada line out early yesterday...Old habits die hard and the positive sentiment on some popular teams can linger. When it changes it can be by a good margin...For ex. the NYR are 18/1.
- Al

These lines are based on betting patterns and expected betting patterns, not an expert opinion on who will place where next year.

Apparently a lot of money being placed - or expected to be placed - on Pittsburgh and Chicago.

These lines are based on betting patterns and expected betting patterns, not an expert opinion on who will place where next year.

Apparently a lot of money being placed - or expected to be placed - on Pittsburgh and Chicago.
- StLBravesFan

They have to start somewhere and correct. I get an update about every month. Unless many significant trades there won't be a lot of change until the season begins.

Let's face it there isn't a long line of folks lining up to bet NHL hockey in June.

I actually agree 200% with the above.

I've spoken with other Hawk fans about these signings and most of the people I alk with think that 88, 19, 50, 7, 22, etc all "deserved" their 100% full price value. But that's a very selfish way of looking at themselves VERSUS the successful continuity of this franchise year over year!

In hindsight, if they all took 10% LESS money per year, the Hawks would be in a GREAT position going forward on signing their own core and new core players going forward.

We also probably would not have had too trade Saad, Sharpie, Oduya, Richards, etc.

Greed is not good! Unless those players don't care that much about hoisting another Cup. All they care about is getting good tee times and buying rounds in the 19th hole!

I guess?
- NYNicky

Greed is not good. But, as has been said many times on this board, players need to maximize their earning potential and ability as quickly as they can. One check to the boards, even a legal one, can knock you out of the game forever. We have to remember the toll this game takes on the players' bodies. Teams aren't just paying for current production, if they are a star player/core player/glue player, teams pay them for AFTER they stop playing too. Meaning, they get more money as a thank you for all the work and punishment they take. For example, Hossa, when he got the contract, I thought the team might be thinking, when Hossa gets to the $1M/year part of the contract, he'll retire, we'll keep him on as team ambassador for the same amount/year and boom. Of course, the new CBA screwed all that up. Shoot, even Hossa may have been thinking that.

Market value is what someone is willing to pay. Not what we schlubs on a hockey board think it is. Toews and Kane's market value is $10.5 Million and if someone presented that to me, I sure as poop wouldn't turn it down. Nor should they, even for the team. They have to remember they are also playing for the rest of the NHLPA.

I know one game that is sure to be scheduled for next season. HNIC with the Pens in Toronto. There is probably going to be a betting line about Kessel making it out alive. Wait till you see what he did.

I know one game that is sure to be scheduled for next season. HNIC with the Pens in Toronto. There is probably going to be a betting line about Kessel making it out alive. Wait till you see what he did.
- 6628

If you're talking about this, I'm pretty sure it's satire.

https://medium.com/sports...wn-74b0021f092#.hoqjf6iz9

If you're talking about this, I'm pretty sure it's satire.

https://medium.com/sports...wn-74b0021f092#.hoqjf6iz9
- Hank_Greenberg

I hope you're right.

Top source just checked in, as in "my" top source.

Lots of names in play, Bickell could get bought out (most likely), but it all depends where the cap settles.

Malkin is NOT a possibility.

These lines are based on betting patterns and expected betting patterns, not an expert opinion on who will place where next year.

Apparently a lot of money being placed - or expected to be placed - on Pittsburgh and Chicago.
- StLBravesFan

^^^^^^

It has a lot more to do with trends and expected bets than any intelligent, up to date scouting—at this time of year. The odds do mean more as the season approaches or starts.

^^^^^^

It has a lot more to do with trends and expected bets than any intelligent, up to date scouting—at this time of year. The odds do mean more as the season approaches or starts.
- John Jaeckel

...Yep and some teams are more heavily bet in this type of wager....Chicago Cubs are an example.

Greed is not good. But, as has been said many times on this board, players need to maximize their earning potential and ability as quickly as they can. One check to the boards, even a legal one, can knock you out of the game forever. We have to remember the toll this game takes on the players' bodies. Teams aren't just paying for current production, if they are a star player/core player/glue player, teams pay them for AFTER they stop playing too. Meaning, they get more money as a thank you for all the work and punishment they take. For example, Hossa, when he got the contract, I thought the team might be thinking, when Hossa gets to the $1M/year part of the contract, he'll retire, we'll keep him on as team ambassador for the same amount/year and boom. Of course, the new CBA screwed all that up. Shoot, even Hossa may have been thinking that.

Market value is what someone is willing to pay. Not what we schlubs on a hockey board think it is. Toews and Kane's market value is $10.5 Million and if someone presented that to me, I sure as poop wouldn't turn it down. Nor should they, even for the team. They have to remember they are also playing for the rest of the NHLPA.
- CanOCorn

Hawks are fortunate one player gave them a significant home team discount-Hammer. In the vast majority of cases they don't exist and for good reason.

I know one game that is sure to be scheduled for next season. HNIC with the Pens in Toronto. There is probably going to be a betting line about Kessel making it out alive. Wait till you see what he did.
- 6628

Absolutely has to be fake.

Top source just checked in, as in "my" top source.

Lots of names in play, Bickell could get bought out (most likely), but it all depends where the cap settles.

Malkin is NOT a possibility.
- John Jaeckel

So....you're saying your top source isn't Eklund?

If you're talking about this, I'm pretty sure it's satire.

https://medium.com/sports...wn-74b0021f092#.hoqjf6iz9
- Hank_Greenberg

And it is (frank)ing hilarious!

These lines are based on betting patterns and expected betting patterns, not an expert opinion on who will place where next year.

Apparently a lot of money being placed - or expected to be placed - on Pittsburgh and Chicago.
- StLBravesFan

Pretty much, to a degree and each sport might be a little different, horse racing and boxing to name two.

When the Bears-Packers play the house simply wants you to bet 100 on the Bears and me to bet 100 on the Packers. Pack wins and your 100 goes to pay me and the 10% juice you pay on your losing bet, 10 bucks in this case, goes into the house's pocket. That's where they make their money as they don't really care who wins and only want to get the same amount of money bet on each side.

With that in mind it's in their best interest to make a fair and solid line to attract the same amount of money to each side.

Of course the lines to win the cup, and how they are computed, are different than to win a particular game. So yes the house simply runs the numbers to see how the public HAS bet in the past, not so much as to prognosticate whether or not Stamkos resigns with TB, to set their lines to win a championship. If they were setting the line for A single game and Crosby or Kane is out that would effect how the line is set in hopes of getting the same amount bet on each side.

I don't think I'm telling you anything you don't know Sage, just posting for those who aren't sure how the house sets its lines and by extension how they make their money.

Odds have A LOT more (if not everything) to do with the betting trends when it comes to which team can/will win the championship - especially in the off season. The books aren't dumb

Baseball is the best sport to bet, anyway

^^^^^^

It has a lot more to do with trends and expected bets than any intelligent, up to date scouting—at this time of year. The odds do mean more as the season approaches or starts.
- John Jaeckel

Right, and to add to Al's post of the Cubs the Cowboys and Notre Dame always takes a lot of FAN money as opposed to "wise guy" money therefor skewing lines, especially single game lines. .....Tough to get value on the Cowboys or Notre Dame if you're betting them, especially a single game.

Odds have A LOT more (if not everything) to do with the betting trends when it comes to which team can/will win the championship - especially in the off season. The books aren't dumb

Baseball is the best sport to bet, anyway
- PatShart

This x 1000. You can't bet Ariata straight up at a -300, in my day it was Seaver/Carlton/Guidry/, but you lose that heavy juice if you parley him with 5 different teams in 5 different bets.... Find your favorite pitcher that day, hopefully a -130ish, and tie him to 3-4-5 different single bets and if the favorite hits you'll make some dough hat day.

Working the midnight shift I'd spend a good hour or two with The National (the sporting mans bible) and some Strohs and scour the lines and data after work...... Good old days.

Right, and to add to Al's post of the Cubs the Cowboys and Notre Dame always takes a lot of FAN money as opposed to "wise guy" money therefor skewing lines, especially single game lines. .....Tough to get value on the Cowboys or Notre Dame if you're betting them, especially a single game.
- Mr Ricochet

In football and other sports the offshore places lead nowadays...but years ago here's how it worked. The line would come out for the following weekend, both pro and college, on Sunday night.

The biggest players would be able to come in by invitation, and bet off those lines, but only to a certain limit. When one side or the other was getting pounded the linesmaker would adjust. So when the line opened on Monday it had already been "seasoned".

I know one game that is sure to be scheduled for next season. HNIC with the Pens in Toronto. There is probably going to be a betting line about Kessel making it out alive. Wait till you see what he did.
- 6628

I wouldn't doubt you could get that kinda action in England. Those maniacs have a line on which of the two birds will fly off the telephone line first, and if they don't they'll make one for you.

Man that little fatso Kessel can play if he wants to. Gets two feet of the ice when he's in high gear and a release that is world class...... And as shown in the playoffs can backchck and pass a bit if he has the notion to.

I remember latrell sprewell claiming it would be hard to feed his family with his new 6.5 mil salary. I think greed reigns supreme. Greedy executives throwing money at players. Players and agents demanding huge contracts. The hockey news a couple of years ago did a cartoon on this. In my opinion the players cannot gripe that there are no quality linemates when they are taking up 10.5 cap space, 6.8, 6, etc etc etc.

Having said that Bowman will wok his magic and make it work.
- ikeane

"Greed is good", per Mr. Gekko.....one exception: NHL players on well established teams looking to win again. Hard truth. Often difficult to accept. Front offices just as culpable as the players. Going into this season only two teams (some may argue only one) fit that description: LA Kings, Chicago Blackhawks

One need only look at the percent of the cap by the top two CHI players, and ask how does the remaining roster get built. Not for an average team, or to only put fannies in the seats, or even a really good team. But for a team to have a great chance to win the Stanley Cup. Sort of ratcheded up not only expectation, but challenge.

19/88 previous cap hit as percentage of cap: 18%, other 21: 82%
19/88 current cap hit as percentage of cap: 29%, other 21: 71%

No one here wants to revert to the dollar Bill / Bob Pulford years: Good teams, often exciting, but rarely a real chance at the chalice.

Top source just checked in, as in "my" top source.

Lots of names in play, Bickell could get bought out (most likely), but it all depends where the cap settles.

Malkin is NOT a possibility.
- John Jaeckel

I was against buying out bickell because of the 1.5 mil in dead cap space next year and all the free agents the hawks having coming up. But the one thing it does do is It takes some of the desperation out of deals. IE the SAAD and SHARP and LEDDY deals were all done out of desperation. I would be a fan of Buying out bickell if we make another deal this year to save us some cap space in 17/18. No idea who that could be but it sounds like the market for players is not very good with Cap not going up much and the EXP draft.

In football and other sports the offshore places lead nowadays...but years ago here's how it worked. The line would come out for the following weekend, both pro and college, on Sunday night.

The biggest players would be able to come in by invitation, and bet off those lines, but only to a certain limit. When one side or the other was getting pounded the linesmaker would adjust. So when the line opened on Monday it had already been "seasoned".
- Al

How so Al, in setting lines? Vegas follows the offshore lines now?......So back in the day Vegas would tweak their lines on the knowledge of the wise guys and how they bet before the line was available to the public?

There is soooo much bet on football lines don't move a whole lot, 1 or 2 points at most but I've seen hoops lines move a good bit.

Remember Jimmy The Greek picking winners with the line on Sunday mornings on channel 2 in the 70's? Life was so simple for the majority of Americans.

I wouldn't doubt you could get that kinda action in England. Those maniacs have a line on which of the two birds will fly off the telephone line first, and if they don't they'll make one for you.

Man that little fatso Kessel can play if he wants to. Gets two feet of the ice when he's in high gear and a release that is world class...... And as shown in the playoffs can backchck and pass a bit if he has the notion to.
- Mr Ricochet

Sounds like the right field bleachers at Cubs Park back in the 50s and 60s.

How so Al, in setting lines? Vegas follows the offshore lines now?......So back in the day Vegas would tweak their lines on the knowledge of the wise guys and how they bet before the line was available to the public?

There is soooo much bet on football lines don't move a whole lot, 1 or 2 points at most but I've seen hoops lines move a good bit.

Remember Jimmy The Greek picking winners with the line on Sunday mornings on channel 2 in the 70's? Life was so simple for the majority of Americans.
- Mr Ricochet

Basically because of the time difference....The offshore and Euro lines come out first.
I talked to someone who runs a large casino and that is what happens nowadays, which is actually better for them because there is less risk. Internet betting has a lot to do with it, so Vegas doesn't have to be the first line bet on.

Back in the day you would see early moves in football lines from the beginning of the week...But by the time you could bet them they were fine tuned. So the Vegas lines maker would go to school on the early professional betting trends, and then when the public was able to play the line was usually tight.