The first time in years I had faith in my Goaltender in the playoffs and everyone talking about moving Murray!!! You might be the only one with my view. That 6 million Fleury counts against the cap would look good skating with Sid and you don't HV Ave to drop anyone.
- lloyd095

Your faith in the goalie was just misplaced, what you really had faith in was the dominant team that played near flawless hockey the majority of the time and insulated the goalie to the point of only facing 4-5 shots a period, the fact is that if you evaluate the playoffs without bias you would see that in reality Murray lost more games for the Pens than he actually won for them, the rest was all on the team just dominating their opponent game in and game out, goaltending was generally irrelevant to the teams success in the playoffs.

Going beyond that, the suggestion of exploring a potential Murray trade is about both short and long term asset management and it has nothing to do with Murray vs Fleury, it's about Murray vs Jarry. If Jarry is going to eventually take the net from Murray in the next 2-3 years anyway then it makes more sense to move Murray for a King's Ransom now and have Fleury bridge the gap until Jarry takes over than to take a much smaller return for Fleury now and have Murray bridge the gap until Jarry takes over. It really all boils down to how they view the Murray v Jarry battle and if they view Jarry as being the long term option then moving Murray now makes sense, if they think Murray has the better long term future then Fleury is the right move now.

At 29 Zatkoff hs aged out of waiver exemptions, he will need to clear waives if not on the NHL roster regardless of the contract he signs.
- jaydogg1974

So he can't start the year in WBS? Didn't think of that, having to clear waivers because he finished this season with the Pens.

Ok, scratch that. Still if both Muzza & Flower start the season, they will have to get a goalie for WBS or will Jarry start there? If that goalie is told Flower will be traded & he will be brought up, then how does that work? Pens have to get a goalie 'from' the A so he doesn't pass through waivers to start the season?? Zatts starts in the NHL no matter which team signs him, then passes through waivers?

Your faith in the goalie was just misplaced, what you really had faith in was the dominant team that played near flawless hockey the majority of the time and insulated the goalie to the point of only facing 4-5 shots a period, the fact is that if you evaluate the playoffs without bias you would see that in reality Murray lost more games for the Pens than he actually won for them, the rest was all on the team just dominating their opponent game in and game out, goaltending was generally irrelevant to the teams success in the playoffs.

Going beyond that, the suggestion of exploring a potential Murray trade is about both short and long term asset management and it has nothing to do with Murray vs Fleury, it's about Murray vs Jarry. If Jarry is going to eventually take the net from Murray in the next 2-3 years anyway then it makes more sense to move Murray for a King's Ransom now and have Fleury bridge the gap until Jarry takes over than to take a much smaller return for Fleury now and have Murray bridge the gap until Jarry takes over. It really all boils down to how they view the Murray v Jarry battle and if they view Jarry as being the long term option then moving Murray now makes sense, if they think Murray has the better long term future then Fleury is the right move now.
- jaydogg1974

JayD Murray broke many records In the AHL and played fairly decent for us up to the Cup. He's nowhere near a finished product but he showed he Can play and that we Can gamble on him. No brainer When he earns 5 x less than Fleury. I like Flower but we could re-sign Schultz and bring a speedy Top 6 winger.

BTW I liked Alex Killorn's game.

Your faith in the goalie was just misplaced, what you really had faith in was the dominant team that played near flawless hockey the majority of the time and insulated the goalie to the point of only facing 4-5 shots a period, the fact is that if you evaluate the playoffs without bias you would see that in reality Murray lost more games for the Pens than he actually won for them, the rest was all on the team just dominating their opponent game in and game out, goaltending was generally irrelevant to the teams success in the playoffs.

Going beyond that, the suggestion of exploring a potential Murray trade is about both short and long term asset management and it has nothing to do with Murray vs Fleury, it's about Murray vs Jarry. If Jarry is going to eventually take the net from Murray in the next 2-3 years anyway then it makes more sense to move Murray for a King's Ransom now and have Fleury bridge the gap until Jarry takes over than to take a much smaller return for Fleury now and have Murray bridge the gap until Jarry takes over. It really all boils down to how they view the Murray v Jarry battle and if they view Jarry as being the long term option then moving Murray now makes sense, if they think Murray has the better long term future then Fleury is the right move now.
- jaydogg1974

I really think you are underwhelming the impact Murray had. Was Flower just rusty when he lost the game V Tampa? Why didn't the 'team' D insulate Flower like you say they did Murray?

There are a few aspects to this goalie situation, & the immediate issue is the cap. The NHL is a business as everyone knows, & if you hold onto the more expensive option A then parts of your business will suffer in other areas. Flowers cap hit is massive compared to that of Murray in more ways than 1. Now if you want to believe what you have written, then how do you proceed completing the roster? There will be other players & levels of talent that cannot be kept/aquired unless other pieces of this puzzle are moved. Before long key pieces may be lost & the team chemistry destroyed. The Hawks were in a 'similar' but not the 'same' position where they had no choice but to move key pieces. They were lucky on a few fronts - health, drafting & great team friendly contracts, & allowed them to win, that has come to an end now the big 2 have their Sid & Geno type contracts.

This is why if the cap allows it Flower will start with the Pens & if Murray can continue his development Flower will be traded regardless of Jarry. Jarry becomes the next Murray & the cycle continues - that's great/lucky drafting.

Conservatively speaking . . The Pens are Fracked, much like the BHawks are Fracked. Both clubs spend heavy on the prove stars and a few bad contracts too boot which are magnified in a had to mouth cap league. The bolts will be in cap hell next year. The Kings should be worse off but snuck out form under Richards bad contract.

At some point the talent will end up in AZ - and cheaper than Sid, Taser, or Stamkos type contracts... The NHLPA has to be so excited about this cap.
- riozzo

What bad contract does the Penguins have? Aside from one more year of Kuni at $4 mill the rest of their contracts are pretty good.

I agree Wilson is probably up to stay but it has nothing to do with him signing a 1way contract and if he struggles during camp I think he will definitely be sent back to WBS for a short time.
- jaydogg1974

A one way contract means he can't be sent back to WBS unless it's on a conditioning stint coming back from injury.

Your faith in the goalie was just misplaced, what you really had faith in was the dominant team that played near flawless hockey the majority of the time and insulated the goalie to the point of only facing 4-5 shots a period, the fact is that if you evaluate the playoffs without bias you would see that in reality Murray lost more games for the Pens than he actually won for them, the rest was all on the team just dominating their opponent game in and game out, goaltending was generally irrelevant to the teams success in the playoffs.

Going beyond that, the suggestion of exploring a potential Murray trade is about both short and long term asset management and it has nothing to do with Murray vs Fleury, it's about Murray vs Jarry. If Jarry is going to eventually take the net from Murray in the next 2-3 years anyway then it makes more sense to move Murray for a King's Ransom now and have Fleury bridge the gap until Jarry takes over than to take a much smaller return for Fleury now and have Murray bridge the gap until Jarry takes over. It really all boils down to how they view the Murray v Jarry battle and if they view Jarry as being the long term option then moving Murray now makes sense, if they think Murray has the better long term future then Fleury is the right move now.
- jaydogg1974

There is not much truth here.

A one way contract means he can't be sent back to WBS unless it's on a conditioning stint coming back from injury.
- Dcoms

Pretty sure the term 1 way only refers to his salary. Meaning no matter where he plays he is paid the same, so he can be sent down just paid the same.

I could be wrong though.

So he can't start the year in WBS? Didn't think of that, having to clear waivers because he finished this season with the Pens.

Ok, scratch that. Still if both Muzza & Flower start the season, they will have to get a goalie for WBS or will Jarry start there? If that goalie is told Flower will be traded & he will be brought up, then how does that work? Pens have to get a goalie 'from' the A so he doesn't pass through waivers to start the season?? Zatts starts in the NHL no matter which team signs him, then passes through waivers?
- Aussiepenguin

Zatkoff had to clear waivers last year too and no one picked him up. The truth is that in WBS it will be Jarry and Maguire or Desmith that have the net and the left over one will be in Wheeling. There is no room for Zatkoff in the organization unless he's the backup at the NHL level. There is really a very small likelihood that MAF is still here to start the season. I think they all want to get the deal done and over with before the season starts so it doesn't become a distraction. And holding onto MAF and having him sit most of the season and then another team expecting him to be a starter half way through the season is just not fair to him and he's been all class up until now. And they won't get more for him than they will right now.

The first time in years I had faith in my Goaltender in the playoffs and everyone talking about moving Murray!!! You might be the only one with my view. That 6 million Fleury counts against the cap would look good skating with Sid and you don't HV Ave to drop anyone.
- lloyd095

You don't technically have to trade fleury right now, but I looked at the goalies who are FAs and there are a few that have been solid goalies out there

JayD Murray broke many records In the AHL and played fairly decent for us up to the Cup. He's nowhere near a finished product but he showed he Can play and that we Can gamble on him. No brainer When he earns 5 x less than Fleury. I like Flower but we could re-sign Schultz and bring a speedy Top 6 winger.

BTW I liked Alex Killorn's game.
- Barnaby36

I'm not saying Murray didn't play well, he did play well, I think his level of play is being overblown because he's being given singular credit for team performances in many cases. As I said, this isn't about Murray vs Fleury, it's about Murray vs Jarry, if you're 100% sure that Murray can fix his flaws that became very obvious as team's started getting more tape on him then I agree that it's a no-brainer to move Fleury not, but if you have doubts about Murray fixing those flaws and believe that Jarry will eventually supplant Murray in the next few seasons anyway then it becomes very feasible to move Murray now while his value is through the roof and you can get a kings ransom for him than to just gamble on him as the place holder for Jarry.

A one way contract means he can't be sent back to WBS unless it's on a conditioning stint coming back from injury.
- Dcoms

100% incorrect. 1way and 2way contracts are a financial determination that lays out how players will be paid at each level, 1way only means he gets paid his full salary while in the AHL if sent down. Waiver eligibility is determined by age, service time and number of games played, for Wilson at age 24 the waiver exemption is 60 NHL games and 2 years since singing his NHL contract.

There is not much truth here.
- Dcoms

Coming from someone who gets proven wrong at almost every turn.

Conservatively speaking . . The Pens are Fracked, much like the BHawks are Fracked. Both clubs spend heavy on the prove stars and a few bad contracts too boot which are magnified in a had to mouth cap league. The bolts will be in cap hell next year. The Kings should be worse off but snuck out form under Richards bad contract.

At some point the talent will end up in AZ - and cheaper than Sid, Taser, or Stamkos type contracts... The NHLPA has to be so excited about this cap.
- riozzo

Didn't know the Penguins paid a barely elite #1 center over 10 mil, and a RW who is not Ovi over ten mil... or some guy over 5 until hes 43.

Oh, thats right... they paid two better centers under 10 mil... I think we'll be just fine bud. Really weak troll attempt.

Zatkoff had to clear waivers last year too and no one picked him up. The truth is that in WBS it will be Jarry and Maguire or Desmith that have the net and the left over one will be in Wheeling. There is no room for Zatkoff in the organization unless he's the backup at the NHL level. There is really a very small likelihood that MAF is still here to start the season. I think they all want to get the deal done and over with before the season starts so it doesn't become a distraction. And holding onto MAF and having him sit most of the season and then another team expecting him to be a starter half way through the season is just not fair to him and he's been all class up until now. And they won't get more for him than they will right now.
- Dcoms

Other than if by that small chance he does return he won't be sitting the majority of the season, if that felt bring him back was the right move it would be in a time share similar to St. Louis with Elliot/Allen since Murray is still unproven over the long haul and showed some glaring holes as time went by that will need to be fixed. I agree that both being on the roster to start the year is very unlikely but if by some chance they are both on the roster they wil be splitting the net 50/50 so it won't diminish his ability to start elsewhere if moved during the season.

I really think you are underwhelming the impact Murray had. Was Flower just rusty when he lost the game V Tampa? Why didn't the 'team' D insulate Flower like you say they did Murray?

There are a few aspects to this goalie situation, & the immediate issue is the cap. The NHL is a business as everyone knows, & if you hold onto the more expensive option A then parts of your business will suffer in other areas. Flowers cap hit is massive compared to that of Murray in more ways than 1. Now if you want to believe what you have written, then how do you proceed completing the roster? There will be other players & levels of talent that cannot be kept/aquired unless other pieces of this puzzle are moved. Before long key pieces may be lost & the team chemistry destroyed. The Hawks were in a 'similar' but not the 'same' position where they had no choice but to move key pieces. They were lucky on a few fronts - health, drafting & great team friendly contracts, & allowed them to win, that has come to an end now the big 2 have their Sid & Geno type contracts.

This is why if the cap allows it Flower will start with the Pens & if Murray can continue his development Flower will be traded regardless of Jarry. Jarry becomes the next Murray & the cycle continues - that's great/lucky drafting.

- Aussiepenguin

See I don't see it as underwhelming the impact Murray had because in general I don't think the goaltending had much of an impact on the outcome of the playoffs, with the exception of a few games I think Murray gave them average to slightly above average goaltending but the level of the team's play in front of him made that average to slightly above average goaltending push it over the top to being great, I think the vast majority of the goaltenders in the NHL could have produced similar numbers and performances to what Murray did behind the Pens team. In fact Murray's numbers were only middle of the pack for goaltenders in the playoffs. The Pens were winning the Cup with any league average goaltender because of the dominant fashion in which the team played, all they asked of Murray was don't lose the game for us and with the exception of a few games he did just that.

See I don't see it as underwhelming the impact Murray had because in general I don't think the goaltending had much of an impact on the outcome of the playoffs, with the exception of a few games I think Murray gave them average to slightly above average goaltending but the level of the team's play in front of him made that average to slightly above average goaltending push it over the top to being great, I think the vast majority of the goaltenders in the NHL could have produced similar numbers and performances to what Murray did behind the Pens team. In fact Murray's numbers were only middle of the pack for goaltenders in the playoffs. The Pens were winning the Cup with any league average goaltender because of the dominant fashion in which the team played, all they asked of Murray was don't lose the game for us and with the exception of a few games he did just that.
- jaydogg1974

3rd in both GAA and SV%

Sounds like top tier to me... but then, I just have the ability to read.

extra note... what teams did he face? Oh, only the top two teams in the east for goals per game (excluding us) and the top of the playoffs and the west, in San Jose.

Rangers were a stat boost... won't even pretend they were tough on him.

MAF is not staying here not matter what scenario someone dreams up. He's as good as gone.
- Dcoms

Don't be so sure. Let's see the expansion rules first.

See I don't see it as underwhelming the impact Murray had because in general I don't think the goaltending had much of an impact on the outcome of the playoffs, with the exception of a few games I think Murray gave them average to slightly above average goaltending but the level of the team's play in front of him made that average to slightly above average goaltending push it over the top to being great, I think the vast majority of the goaltenders in the NHL could have produced similar numbers and performances to what Murray did behind the Pens team. In fact Murray's numbers were only middle of the pack for goaltenders in the playoffs. The Pens were winning the Cup with any league average goaltender because of the dominant fashion in which the team played, all they asked of Murray was don't lose the game for us and with the exception of a few games he did just that.
- jaydogg1974

Don't be so sure. Let's see the expansion rules first.
- PensFan1962

I'd be more willing to bet one of the two is gone before the trade deadline this upcoming season... 50-50 Flower is dealt this offseason. It just makes more sense to deal him now for cap reasons.

See I don't see it as underwhelming the impact Murray had because in general I don't think the goaltending had much of an impact on the outcome of the playoffs, with the exception of a few games I think Murray gave them average to slightly above average goaltending but the level of the team's play in front of him made that average to slightly above average goaltending push it over the top to being great, I think the vast majority of the goaltenders in the NHL could have produced similar numbers and performances to what Murray did behind the Pens team. In fact Murray's numbers were only middle of the pack for goaltenders in the playoffs. The Pens were winning the Cup with any league average goaltender because of the dominant fashion in which the team played, all they asked of Murray was don't lose the game for us and with the exception of a few games he did just that.
- jaydogg1974

Not true. Murrays numbers were in the top 5. It doesn't matter, however. They just need above average goaltending going forward, and Murray gives you this at an entry level cap hit, where Fluery is a relatively modest (for a goaltender) $5.75 million.

They keep both unless Fluery wants out. I suspect even if he does, there really aren't many places to go.

Bring both to camp, try to work it out, and then do a trade midseason when someone else's goalie gets hurt. Or keep him when one of your own gets hurt.

3rd in both GAA and SV%

Sounds like top tier to me... but then, I just have the ability to read.

extra note... what teams did he face? Oh, only the top two teams in the east for goals per game (excluding us) and the top of the playoffs and the west, in San Jose.

Rangers were a stat boost... won't even pretend they were tough on him.
- Guile

to be fair those stats can be quite scewerd by how the team in front plays.

to be fair those stats can be quite scewerd by how the team in front plays.
- martox

Hard to bump him from top 3 to just average... The team in front limited the amount of shots he faced, thus, each goal he let in, hurt his averages more than most others.

If anything, that actually made every save he had even more vital to having higher percentages.

When has,Sullivan ever said he prefers Murray? What makes it so obvious that he prefers Murray? I'm not saying he doesn't but outside of the media & fans assuming he favors Murray there is really nothing definitive that proves that's true at this point.
- jaydogg1974

The way he talks about Murray, all but suggests that he is his guy no matter what. He had him in Wilks, he couldn't wait to get him up here. When MAF was healthy, he never got the net back till Murray had a bad game. That to me sounds like MAF is considered the backup. All the DK stuff I have read points to Murray being Sullivans guy, I mean..its not like Rossi is writing that stuff, but Yohe and DK are both saying it, I tend to go with it. I trust them with inside info than anyone else. I would love to keep both goalies, but I just don't see MAF wanting to start only 30 games here...I just don't.

3rd in both GAA and SV%

Sounds like top tier to me... but then, I just have the ability to read.

extra note... what teams did he face? Oh, only the top two teams in the east for goals per game (excluding us) and the top of the playoffs and the west, in San Jose.

Rangers were a stat boost... won't even pretend they were tough on him.
- Guile

Michal Neuvirth .981
Frederik Andersen .947
Petr Mrazek .945
Braden Holtby .942
Ben Bishop .939
Roberto Luongo .934
Andrei Vasilevskiy .925
Thomas Greiss .923
Martin Jones .923
Matt Murray .923

Looks like tied for 8th to me but hey maybe I'm reading that wrong