Is it just me or do the old guard/voters/NHL "elite" always come off as a bunch of whiney, petty, jagoffs?

The League and the NHLPA. What is the goal of player spending? What was the lockouts about?
- MJL

that's a fantastic question

that's a fantastic question
- BulliesPhan87

Come to think of it, it really is.

We'll be asking the same question after the next one.

We always chastised the Flyers for "trying to win last year's Stanley Cup." I'm glad that Hextall stuck to his plan instead of altering it based on what happened last season.
- jmatchett383

I'm not inferring that at all. Speed is king in the newer NHL. Can't think of one slow team that has won in the last few years. You could see the Sharks compass back down as soon as the pens started their first pass and transition game. I think it's something that needs some attention, not the be all end all.

I meant to allow contracts to terminate without penalty due to career-ending injuries like Savard's and Pronger's.
- jmatchett383

There's really not a politically sound solution to this. If those dollars come off the cap but still get paid out, that means either higher escrow or >50% HRR for players. I can't imagine the NHLPA would go for "terminate the contract, remaining salary included" either.

Will Forsberg's contract impact Schenn negotiations?

Come to think of it, it really is.

We'll be asking the same question after the next one.
- MJL

Undoubtedly. We'll all know what it ostensibly will have been about, but ultimately just feel kind of miserable for a few months until hockey works its way back into our routines.

The problem with him is that he can't really skate that well and isn't particularly physical for his size -- he's really not that good a player in today's NHL

Have you watched him much? There might be some good reasons why that particular player isn't getting qualified
- AllInForFlyers

I think he is a solid skater for his size.

The problem seems to be he never has produced much offensively.

Flagged on accident. I beg for your forgiveness, scoob
- Giroux_Is_God

lol...no problemo, I've never been notified that one of my posts has been flagged.

don't worry I flag all his posts
- GudasNew

LOL!

Is it just me or do the old guard/voters/NHL "elite" always come off as a bunch of whiney, petty, jagoffs?
- MBFlyerfan

Yes.

I know what youre saying...I just know the other loopholes were closed to get rid of an advantage that bigger payroll teams had against the small ones. Who would be benefiting from this being closed besides a few grumpy fans?
- YuenglingJagr

Probably the players who would actually be getting paid would consider it a benefit.

I don't put any weight on reports of that nature, personally.
- MJL

Until I see his FF% as compared to the rest of the league I'm dubious also.

Probably the players who would actually be getting paid would consider it a benefit.
- Scoob

You cant play a guy thats injured or retired...so how is that preventing someone from replacing him?

MacDonald for Lupul?

Does it work?

Lupul has 2 years left?


Also for clarification did we get the AZ 3rd rounder next season? That would be 3 in the 3rd next season

You cant play a guy thats injured or retired...so how is that preventing someone from replacing him?
- YuenglingJagr

Pronger and now Datsyuk are using cap dollars that could be used to pay someone who would actually be playing. Phoenix, er, excuse me, Arizona will reach the cap floor but will not come close to paying out that amount of money. They're in financial dire straits, can't afford to pay enough to reach the floor, and are using this tactic (yes, allowed) to stay afloat. It's a crappy situation.

Since the NHL refused to provide a way to end contracts like Pronger's and Savard's, I doubt they'll take any action against deals like that.
- jmatchett383

Thats the way I see it. It's a side effect of removing a loophole that was being taken advantage of.

I am a big fan of teams using cap space for assets

MacDonald for Lupul?

Does it work?

Lupul has 2 years left?


Also for clarification did we get the AZ 3rd rounder next season? That would be 3 in the 3rd next season
- J35Bacher

We're packaging a draft pick to get rid of MacDonald, without a doubt. If they play him for a few months and he looks better, maybe. But MacDonald for Lupul benefits Toronto in no way.

Not to be a jerk, but how does that deal even begin to sound fair.....

You cant play a guy thats injured or retired...so how is that preventing someone from replacing him?
- YuenglingJagr

The cap dollars teams like Phoenix are using from retiree contracts to reach the floor would, ideally, be spent on that someone.

The cap dollars teams like Phoenix are using from retiree contracts to reach the floor would, ideally, be spent on that someone.
- BulliesPhan87

Perhaps, but it's a benefit to those teams. Cap space is currency.

Thats the way I see it. It's a side effect of removing a loophole that was being taken advantage of.

I am a big fan of teams using cap space for assets
- YuenglingJagr

The thing is, the NHL isn't the one who'd raise a stink, it's the NHLPA. Maybe they won't, but based on the number of lockouts we've averted, I'm not super optimistic.

Pronger and now Datsyuk are using cap dollars that could be used to pay someone who would actually be playing. Phoenix, er, excuse me, Arizona will reach the cap floor but will not come close to paying out that amount of money. They're in financial dire straits, can't afford to pay enough to reach the floor, and are using this tactic (yes, allowed) to stay afloat. It's a crappy situation.
- Scoob

Just saying it sounds like your issue is with a team in Arizona itself, and not the contract loophole.

If they Flyers had an awful year and just started picking up assets by taking on cap space...would you be against it?

What about teams that take bad contracts in trades at the deadline?

Its just another example of GMs using the tools available, and I think there are more important issues to worry about. With the difference between rookies and vets in AAV...spending more money on players doesnt actually guarantee that they are better....so signing andrew ladd for 10 million AAV isnt going to make them relevant.

They were competitive for a bit this year with rookie contracts

Perhaps, but it's a benefit to those teams. Cap space is currency.
- PepinoPamplemousse

you don't have to convince me sir, I have no dogs in this race

The cap dollars teams like Phoenix are using from retiree contracts to reach the floor would, ideally, be spent on that someone.
- BulliesPhan87

I get that...im just saying there is no proof that will make them better. This allows them to play young guys on ELCs and be more competitive over a team full over overpaid guys playing a line above what they would on a competitive team.

It really is the best case scenario in this situation....im baffled as to why people make such a big stink.

say the loophole doesnt exist. Chris Pronger knows hes not going to play until hes 40, but he still wants 50 million dollars from his contract. He should sign a deal with a higher AAV just to avoid dead years on the end of the deal? Would that not in fact raise his cap hit and take money from other players? Would it not make it harder to fit someone like him on an already competitive team, forcing a team to sacrifice depth to keep him around?

You cant look at this argument from one perspective. It allows players to get the most money and it allows GMs to get rid of guaranteed contracts when they are up against the cap to remain competitive. So again....who is really losing out in this deal?

Just saying it sounds like your issue is with a team in Arizona itself, and not the contract loophole.

If they Flyers had an awful year and just started picking up assets by taking on cap space...would you be against it?

What about teams that take bad contracts in trades at the deadline?

Its just another example of GMs using the tools available, and I think there are more important issues to worry about. With the difference between rookies and vets in AAV...spending more money on players doesnt actually guarantee that they are better....so signing andrew ladd for 10 million AAV isnt going to make them relevant.

They were competitive for a bit this year with rookie contracts
- YuenglingJagr

Counterpoint: frontloading contracts was just GMs using tools available to them, until it was suddenly a violation of the rules when NJD did it. This isn't just trading cap space, this is arguably circumventing the cap floor, and not by a little.

I get that...im just saying there is no proof that will make them better. This allows them to play young guys on ELCs and be more competitive over a team full over overpaid guys playing a line above what they would on a competitive team.

It really is the best case scenario in this situation....im baffled as to why people make such a big stink.

say the loophole doesnt exist. Chris Pronger knows hes not going to play until hes 40, but he still wants 50 million dollars from his contract. He should sign a deal with a higher AAV just to avoid dead years on the end of the deal? Would that not in fact raise his cap hit and take money from other players? Would it not make it harder to fit someone like him on an already competitive team, forcing a team to sacrifice depth to keep him around?

You cant look at this argument from one perspective. It allows players to get the most money and it allows GMs to get rid of guaranteed contracts when they are up against the cap to remain competitive. So again....who is really losing out in this deal?
- YuenglingJagr

You seem to think I'm sold on either side of this debate, but I really don't think I'm the one looking at this from a sole perspective. I guess I'm just playing devil's advocate.

@ the bolded portion, I don't think Chris Pronger is looking out for teams in his contract negotiations, he's looking out for Chris Pronger. The scenario you described is the one that now exists thanks to the last lockout.

You want my opinion on this? It's a bit of a mixed bag, and will probably factor into another pointless lockout in which they reshuffle the rules a bit and don't "fix" a whole lot.