Hutton and 2017 first for Barrie

Sbisa and Sven for Kane.

Buf will not get a huge return. They want him gone
- VANTEL

That first offer would get my attention and probably not be too popular in here ...I just think Kane still has enough value to get more ...but you could be right

what do you want them to do?? whats your idea of a Vancouver rebuild? how are they supposed to do it differently?

theres the Edmonton way which clearly didn't work - The Toronto way which is a work in progress - the Columbus way, who in the last ten years have had 6 top 10 picks and haven't won sh&T. The Jets have had great luck drafting, they're no further ahead, despite adding serviceable players around the youth. Chicago who got Toews and kane BUT also got insanely lucky with high drafts picks becoming stars - who could've predicted that?

the truth is, every team that wins the cup has a completely unique way of winning and the same model obviously doesn't work for any two teams, its a different recipe each year. Most importantly, no one can predict how that championship team is gonna win.

No one expected Pitts to win this year, inexperienced goalie, a Defence led by Letang and a slew of cast offs. BUT They just pieced together a few decent lines with speed first and it worked. The recipe for success changes year to year, team to team.
- Brooks_Light

That's fine but we ain't talking re-build. As Don points out management has decided that they will take "one more shot" at a championship while the twins can still skate. As Don says, twins will probably be extended. I think they will too because of this new deal for loui. That means canuck management probably sees a 3-5 year window where they will reload to compete for a cup.

That's not rebuilding through the draft that was originally promised by this management gang when they took over the club.

I think there is a difference. I'm all for a slow rebuild through the draft. I don't like what going on now.

It simply was time for a change. The D core won 3 playoff games in 5 years. It needed to get younger bigger tougher faster and more skilled. Hamhuis didn't help any of those causes
- VANTEL

Agreed ...although in a perfect world if you could have kept hamhuis and traded edler I think that would have been the ideal move if doable

Agreed ...although in a perfect world if you could have kept hamhuis and traded edler I think that would have been the ideal move if doable
- Redmile247

Elder needs a bounce back season or he can be gone by 2017

Thank you for this...it seems like common sense but it needs to be said over and over again. There is no proven model for a rebuild. Anyone that says there is is full of sh!t
- CanuckDon

It is common sense for a rebuild but that's not what's going on here... you said it yourself.

That's fine but we ain't talking re-build. As Don points out management has decided that they will take "one more shot" at a championship while the twins can still skate. As Don says, twins will probably be extended. I think they will too because of this new deal for loui. That means canuck management probably sees a 3-5 year window where they will reload to compete for a cup.

That's not rebuilding through the draft that was originally promised by this management gang when they took over the club.

I think there is a difference. I'm all for a slow rebuild through the draft. I don't like what going on now.
- bloatedmosquito

To be fair, everyone fan of a Canadian team has said this over the last decade at some point. Other than the Oilers, and now the Leafs, others are still waiting.

It's frustrating Canadian teams (for the most part) don't want to build through the draft. US teams will do it the second they think they are passed contending.

To be fair, everyone fan of a Canadian team has said this over the last decade at some point. Other than the Oilers, and now the Leafs, others are still waiting.

It's frustrating Canadian teams (for the most part) don't want to build through the draft. US teams will do it the second they think they are passed contending.
- walshyleafsfan

Both SCF teams retooled on the fly this year. I never expected either one to be there. At different points both teams were struggling.

To be fair, everyone fan of a Canadian team has said this over the last decade at some point. Other than the Oilers, and now the Leafs, others are still waiting.

It's frustrating Canadian teams (for the most part) don't want to build through the draft. US teams will do it the second they think they are passed contending.
- walshyleafsfan

I don't think flames fans are disappointed with how things have gone recently as they have a traded many vets and drafted most of their future core

I think you're expecting a lot and you seem to expect everything to happen overnight. We were literally left with nothing after Gillis' era. We have maybe just begun to be on the average side of prospect depth. A few more years and it'll be flourishing with a solid in and out system where new prospects break out every 2 years. Hutton and Horvat are the only things Gillis was able to draft for us. Don't forget we lost Luc Bourdon too soon and could've been a great D man in this league. It's ok to be pessimistic but sometimes it sounds like you're gonna jump of the nearest bridge. Time is all Benning needs and we have zero control over what happens. Can't we just give him his 5 years and see what he creates?

And it took Schneider to get us Horvat too. Gillis is a complete (frank)ing tool. Blame him.
- WhatTheNuck

I think I've stated the exact opposite many, many times. I've never been one to jump off the bridge.

Slow rebuild through the draft. No need to take another shot at a cup for the twins. Very simple concept. What’s happening now is quick fixes. The only reason names like Lucic and Loui were being thrown around because of the canucks desire to compete now and not wait and try a different approach.

Once again, this team seems to be stuck in no man's land.

Elder needs a bounce back season or he can be gone by 2017
- VANTEL

If edler can play less minutes he is still a good D man ...as soon as injuries pile up and his minutes go up he goes into brain cramp mode

Both SCF teams retooled on the fly this year. I never expected either one to be there. At different points both teams were struggling.
- VANTEL

It's easy to "retool" when you have crosby and malkin. Canucks don't have that luxury.

I think I've stated the exact opposite many, many times. I've never been one to jump off the bridge.

Slow rebuild through the draft. No need to take another shot at a cup for the twins. Very simple concept. What’s happening now is quick fixes. The only reason names like Lucic and Loui were being thrown around because of the canucks desire to compete now and not wait and try a different approach.

Once again, this team seems to be stuck in no man's land.
- bloatedmosquito

This is much like the flames did with iggy and kipper et al ...the Canucks have a few more prospects with upside from not trading firsts away but still not the route I would take with this team

Both SCF teams retooled on the fly this year. I never expected either one to be there. At different points both teams were struggling.
- VANTEL

You can't really compare the Canucks to those two ...different situations

Both SCF teams retooled on the fly this year. I never expected either one to be there. At different points both teams were struggling.
- VANTEL

One had 3 top 2 picks on their team already.

The other, finally got their poop together after so many years of falling short (only to play like crap in the final), also having the luxury of Jumbo Joe, Joe P, Couture and Marleau and beautiful sunny weather.

This is much like the flames did with iggy and kipper et al ...the Canucks have a few more prospects with upside from not trading firsts away but still not the route I would take with this team
- Redmile247

Exactly. Our teams have been down this road before may times. It doesn't work. You got to draft your superstars and build around them. Signing Loui at this time makes no sense.

I agree with most of the talking heads out there, the timing just seems weird.

Exactly. Our teams have been down this road before may times. It doesn't work. You got to draft your superstars and build around them. Signing Loui at this time makes no sense.

I agree with most of the talking heads out there, the timing just seems weird.
- bloatedmosquito

Agreed. Unfortunately (and you don't wanna hear this) the moves, and subsequently, the comments on here as very much what the Leafs have been doing for 10+ years. It'll only end in frustration. However, obviously as an owner/GM (more so), when it's your job on the line, you don't want to go full rebuild because you can be 95% sure, you ain't around to see the benefits of what you did.

Honestly, with a very few exceptions, given the fact Canada is in neither Florida nor California, the only way to become a contender is a few very high picks. It's the only way you're going to get your core players. Then you build around those 2 or 3.

It's easy to "retool" when you have crosby and malkin. Canucks don't have that luxury.
- bloatedmosquito

So you don't think the Sedins are elite then? I'm not saying you're wrong, because they clearly aren't at their best anymore. But I think they're better than Thorton/Marleau who both made it this year to the SCF.

The problem with building solely through the draft is that losing can become entrenched in the organization. How many times have we seen teams like Buffalo, Edmonton, Winnipeg boo wins and cheer for losses? Don't forget that Vancouver is the most fickle hockey market in the NHL and the vast majority of people who pay for tickets are bandwagoners who jump at the first signs of trouble.

It doesn't help that the demographics of Vancouver have changed as well, with more Asians buying properties/living here who have no ties to the community and therefore to the team. Would losing and building through the draft appeal to those people? Especially when it's all but certain that they don't know what hockey is or follow it in Asia?

Exactly. Our teams have been down this road before may times. It doesn't work. You got to draft your superstars and build around them. Signing Loui at this time makes no sense.

I agree with most of the talking heads out there, the timing just seems weird.
- bloatedmosquito

Much like that point for flames fans you can see a divide in the fan base ...some want to try and compete for playoffs and others are fed up with going for in when your probably not going to be a legit contender

It's easy to "retool" when you have crosby and malkin. Canucks don't have that luxury.
- bloatedmosquito

You are being overly hard on Canucks . Malkin did squat , Crosby Letang The third line and one or two call ups were the heroes.


Thorton Marleau old guys .

Not one team has ever won by drafting only. You need about three top picks and surround them with good talent.

Look at the Oilers moving one of their 4 x first overall and are looking to trade RNH. Going by the draft alone takes way too long.

I know you will throw out Chicagos and LAs name but both teams made trades and picked up free agents to surround their draft picks . Every time Canucks made the finals we added through trades and UFAs

Sedin Sedin Loui
Kane Sutter Hansen
JV Bo Rodin
Etem Menga Dorsett

Barrie Tanev
Edler Gudbrandson
Tryamkin Larsen

Markstrom

That lineup would make the playoffs and could win a round

So you don't think the Sedins are elite then? I'm not saying you're wrong, because they clearly aren't at their best anymore. But I think they're better than Thorton/Marleau who both made it this year to the SCF.

The problem with building solely through the draft is that losing can become entrenched in the organization. How many times have we seen teams like Buffalo, Edmonton, Winnipeg boo wins and cheer for losses? Don't forget that Vancouver is the most fickle hockey market in the NHL and the vast majority of people who pay for tickets are bandwagoners who jump at the first signs of trouble.

It doesn't help that the demographics of Vancouver have changed as well, with more Asians buying properties/living here who have no ties to the community and therefore to the team. Would losing and building through the draft appeal to those people? Especially when it's all but certain that they don't know what hockey is or follow it in Asia?
- DariusKnight

That is an interesting point actually.

How else do you build a winner though. I'm not 100% on the figures, but something like the last 15 teams to win the cup had a player picked in the top 2 or 3 (and presumably in their prime). Only one not was maybe Detroit?

Drafting well is obviously key, but that seems pretty hard to do. It's more luck than anything. If Tampa left Palat until the 4th last pick on purpose then that was quite the risk taken. Same with Lidstrom/Datsyuk/Zetterberg etc.

With fewe and fewer real impact players making it to free agency, i can't think of a way to build your team without high picks unless you either already have those guys, or you are a team in a beautiful, warm, tax friendly city.

So you don't think the Sedins are elite then? I'm not saying you're wrong, because they clearly aren't at their best anymore. But I think they're better than Thorton/Marleau who both made it this year to the SCF.

The problem with building solely through the draft is that losing can become entrenched in the organization. How many times have we seen teams like Buffalo, Edmonton, Winnipeg boo wins and cheer for losses? Don't forget that Vancouver is the most fickle hockey market in the NHL and the vast majority of people who pay for tickets are bandwagoners who jump at the first signs of trouble.

It doesn't help that the demographics of Vancouver have changed as well, with more Asians buying properties/living here who have no ties to the community and therefore to the team. Would losing and building through the draft appeal to those people? Especially when it's all but certain that they don't know what hockey is or follow it in Asia?
- DariusKnight

Joe Thornton just had a 82 point season

Where's your pavelski? Couture ? Burns ? Pickles ? Jones ?

You can't really compare the Canucks to those two ...different situations
- Redmile247

What teams have the same situation?

So you don't think the Sedins are elite then? I'm not saying you're wrong, because they clearly aren't at their best anymore. But I think they're better than Thorton/Marleau who both made it this year to the SCF.

The problem with building solely through the draft is that losing can become entrenched in the organization. How many times have we seen teams like Buffalo, Edmonton, Winnipeg boo wins and cheer for losses? Don't forget that Vancouver is the most fickle hockey market in the NHL and the vast majority of people who pay for tickets are bandwagoners who jump at the first signs of trouble.

It doesn't help that the demographics of Vancouver have changed as well, with more Asians buying properties/living here who have no ties to the community and therefore to the team. Would losing and building through the draft appeal to those people? Especially when it's all but certain that they don't know what hockey is or follow it in Asia?
- DariusKnight

Do I think Sedins are elite? Not any more.

Are they better than Thorton/Marleau? Yes, but the sharks lost. Never follow the example of the losing side.

Are Vancouver fans the most fickle hockey market in the NHL? No way and that comparison drives me nuts. The canucks have done poop in their history. Blunder after blunder. Disappointment after disappointment. And yet the team is still in vancouver and is still making money. The fickle fan base is a delusion.

If you promoted the redevelopment of the canucks through patience and drafting, explaining your plan clearly to the fan base and stuck to it, I think there would be buy-in. Instead, we get double talk from our owner, prez, and GM.

I think I've stated the exact opposite many, many times. I've never been one to jump off the bridge.

Slow rebuild through the draft. No need to take another shot at a cup for the twins. Very simple concept. What’s happening now is quick fixes. The only reason names like Lucic and Loui were being thrown around because of the canucks desire to compete now and not wait and try a different approach.

Once again, this team seems to be stuck in no man's land.
- bloatedmosquito

Fair enough but when you find an example of that working let me know. While the Sedin's are here they will keep pushing for playoffs. I just want them to compete hard period but I don't want quick fixes either. Unfortunately none of us get to make those decisions and while it may seem a bit unorthodox, I don't think the Leafs, Flames, and Oilers have had any success in the past 10 years slowly rebuilding through the draft. I'd say the Oilers are the closest if they can get a solid performance from Talbot and find a way to get a puck moving D man.

It shouldn't really matter where Benning is drafting if he is as good as some think. He just needs to start holding onto more picks and selling at the TDL if they aren't a playoff team. I think this past years TDL was a bit unfortunate but he was put in a tough spot.

The main differences in the Leafs model and ours is that we still have great leadership and may have begun a retooling transition at the right time. Only time will tell but I feel very situation is different and I don't think we have made moves for quick fixes.

Joe Thornton just had a 82 point season

Where's your pavelski? Couture ? Burns ? Pickles ? Jones ?
- Redmile247

Horvat, Virtanen... Burns and Jones came via trade. Vlasic is all we are missing and that could very well be Juolevi.