Considering Weise is signed for 4 times as long and 3 times as expensive as White, I hope it's a hell of an upgrade!

Weise is payed at the level of a third line player, not a 4th line grinder. Comparing White and Weise is silly. The more appropriate comparison would be White and Gordon. White obviously is a far superior player to Gordon. This is another mistake by Hextall
- acd513

Weise is closer to 2x then 3x more expensive than White but that's not the point.

Weise is going to fill White's vacant 2nd Power play role as well upgrading the bottom 6 with skill, speed, energy and agitation. Gordon has been brought in a as faceoff specialising defensively conscious 4th line center. He's not replacing White just because his cap hit is closer to him. Both moves are giving the bottom 6 a much needed make over.

I don't get why people are so apt to advocate this type of move. AMac is young enough where he could still fix an aspect or two of his game. I'm not sayign that we hold onto him because he could be our next MDZ. But if this team continues to improve on the blue line with prospects, then AMac should start to look more comfortable out there and start to build his value back up. I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be any takers at all.
- steelydan

AMac is about to turn 30, I think his game is pretty much what it is at this point.

This is how I feel. Like Bill mentioned in the blog, he was regarded as all-situations type d-man who played against top lines. They're not asking him to do that anymore. Most of us would be fine if he was a serviceable #4/#5 guy who can step up when a guy is injured. At the end of the day, I'd rather not have a 2.5 dead cap for 4 years (or 3 years for that matter). It's simply poor cap management.

AMac is a sunk cost. He had potential. It's not as if he's dealing with injuries, so the potential should still be there. Sure it's easy to pile on the overpaid, under-producing player. We all love to play the cap game, myself included. But at some point, ranting about AMac starts to become an indictment on the fan and their lack of education. A player's cap hit shouldn't come into play when you watch them during a game. They either play their assigned role or they don't.
- steelydan

So he is a sunk cost but getting half of that sunk cost back is poor cap management? I dont really understand that. A player's cap hit doesnt come into play on a game by game basis, but it certainly comes into play in the long term outlook of the team

So he is a sunk cost but getting half of that sunk cost back is poor cap management? I dont really understand that. A player's cap hit doesnt come into play on a game by game basis, but it certainly comes into play in the long term outlook of the team
- YuenglingJagr

I don't get why people are so apt to advocate this type of move. AMac is young enough where he could still fix an aspect or two of his game. I'm not sayign that we hold onto him because he could be our next MDZ. But if this team continues to improve on the blue line with prospects, then AMac should start to look more comfortable out there and start to build his value back up. I find it hard to believe that there wouldn't be any takers at all.
- steelydan

Plus, unless you're getting a usable asset in return, I don't understand why the Flyers would dump AMac now just to get $2.5M in relief. They have no need for the cap space currently and there's still a chance, albeit small, he's selected in the expansion draft. With Streit and Schultz off the books next season and losing one contract in the expansion draft, the Flyers don't have cap issues next year either. The following season is when they may truly need the relief to resign players and make a FA play since they could be considered more than a playoff hopeful. If he ends up playing in the NHL this year and puts up decent figures, you may have a trading partner willing to take more than $2.5M in salary. It's just too much optionality to be giving up right now.

Weise is closer to 2x then 3x more expensive than White but that's not the point.

Weise is going to fill White's vacant 2nd Power play role as well upgrading the bottom 6 with skill, speed, energy and agitation. Gordon has been brought in a as faceoff specialising defensively conscious 4th line center. He's not replacing White just because his cap hit is closer to him. Both moves are giving the bottom 6 a much needed make over.
- Baxter27

Exactly


I really like that they've added both more skill and more depth to the bottom 6 and I'm very happy that signed one of the best faceoff guys in the league as part of that.

Weise is closer to 2x then 3x more expensive than White but that's not the point.

Weise is going to fill White's vacant 2nd Power play role as well upgrading the bottom 6 with skill, speed, energy and agitation. Gordon has been brought in a as faceoff specialising defensively conscious 4th line center. He's not replacing White just because his cap hit is closer to him. Both moves are giving the bottom 6 a much needed make over.
- Baxter27

I'll go as far as saying Weise could be replacing Read if he doesn't play better.

MacDonald is what he is. He's an average top 4 defenseman, who is decent all around but not great in anyone area. He is capable of playing solid minutes, in a lot of situations. He plays a cautious style, that some don't like. I understand that. We all agree that he is overpaid. For now, in my opinion, the best thing the Flyers can do is put him in the lineup and play him.
- MJL

Yup. Your last line says it best for me. Put him in and play him. He clearly was working through confidence issues, being sent down to the AHL. I don't remember screaming at him during the WAS series, so I think he was starting to get comfortable again.

If this guy was blocking Provorov, then I'd be all for moving him. But we have players like Streit, Schultz, and Manning on this team. Ignoring the salaries (because it's a sunk cost), I'd rather have AMac out there over Schultz and Manning. And Streit is likely gone during the season. So if they keep AMac out there, let him get comfortable with d-man partner, and give him minutes; he could eventually become a trade-able asset.

Plus, unless you're getting a usable asset in return, I don't understand why the Flyers would dump AMac now just to get $2.5M in relief. They have no need for the cap space currently and there's still a chance, albeit small, he's selected in the expansion draft. With Streit and Schultz off the books next season and losing one contract in the expansion draft, the Flyers don't have cap issues next year either. The following season is when they may truly need the relief to resign players and make a FA play since they could be considered more than a playoff hopeful. If he ends up playing in the NHL this year and puts up decent figures, you may have a trading partner willing to take more than $2.5M in salary. It's just too much optionality to be giving up right now.
- RyKo17

They dont necessarily need cap space right now, but they currently have a roster space issue. They ends up working itself out due to injuries and such it seems...but there is no doubt next year he will be easier to move

That top 6 is a pretty undersized group, and only Gudas brings any physical play whatsoever. They could succeed at ES and certainly on the PP, but the PK could be ugly.
- BiggE

I wouldn't call it undersized and do think we will see some physical play from both MDZ and Provorov but I can see your point. On the other hand, there wasn't much size/physicality on the Cup champs blue line either.

I wouldn't call it undersized and do think we will see some physical play from both MDZ and Provorov but I can see your point. On the other hand, there wasn't much size/physicality on the Cup champs blue line either.
- Baxter27

True, I just think that you still need one Dman with some size, good wheels and a mean disposition. Hopefully, Morin will be that guy. Having someone with his skill set and reach would greatly benefit the PK.

I'll go as far as saying Weise could be replacing Read if he doesn't play better.
- J35Bacher

At even strength for sure. Read did play an important role from the point on the 2nd PP unit though.

Weise is closer to 2x then 3x more expensive than White but that's not the point.

Weise is going to fill White's vacant 2nd Power play role as well upgrading the bottom 6 with skill, speed, energy and agitation. Gordon has been brought in a as faceoff specialising defensively conscious 4th line center. He's not replacing White just because his cap hit is closer to him. Both moves are giving the bottom 6 a much needed make over.
- Baxter27

Weise is also a guy who can play in the top 6 when injuries and suspensions happen, like, for example, games 1-3 of this season where Big Bad Brayden Schenn gets a DOPS-imposed holiday.

True, I just think that you still need one Dman with some size, good wheels and a mean disposition. Hopefully, Morin will be that guy. Having someone with his skill set and reach would greatly benefit the PK.
- BiggE

On the same page for sure. I'm hoping Morin can come up mid season and take a line up spot away from Streit or Macdonald.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but if any of Provorov, Morin or Hagg makes the team, they will have to do something.

Gudas, MDZ, Streit, and Ghost are locks to be in the lineup, and Schultz, due to his value on the PK, is a near lock as well. If a kid takes the 6th spot, do you carry AMac as a 7th and waive Manning, carry 8 D, waive AMac or retain what you need to retain in order to trade him?
- BiggE

Yes, they will, and I don't think they view MacDonald as part of the long term picture. I just think the less term on MacDonald's deal, the easier it will be to move him. It's all about the timing. I don't see any urgency to the point where they have to move him now.

Plus, unless you're getting a usable asset in return, I don't understand why the Flyers would dump AMac now just to get $2.5M in relief. They have no need for the cap space currently and there's still a chance, albeit small, he's selected in the expansion draft. With Streit and Schultz off the books next season and losing one contract in the expansion draft, the Flyers don't have cap issues next year either. The following season is when they may truly need the relief to resign players and make a FA play since they could be considered more than a playoff hopeful. If he ends up playing in the NHL this year and puts up decent figures, you may have a trading partner willing to take more than $2.5M in salary. It's just too much optionality to be giving up right now.
- RyKo17

It's a very good point. What is Hextall going to do with $2.5m in extra cap space right now?

So he is a sunk cost but getting half of that sunk cost back is poor cap management? I dont really understand that. A player's cap hit doesnt come into play on a game by game basis, but it certainly comes into play in the long term outlook of the team
- YuenglingJagr

Like the poster under me said. What is the motivation? There is no 'Joe Banner' award for setting the gold standard in cap management. If we were talking about stocks or property management; sure. Getting back half of your sunk cost is better than getting back none of it. But with this scenario, we're talking about an NHL player who has displayed: coveted skillset; serviceable skillset; and poor skillset. You're stating that the best thing is to cut our losses. I assume you think that he would never reach his "coveted" status again.

Personally, I don't see the harm in holding onto a 5M contract while the player attempts to build their game back up. If this was holding back Provorov or preventing us from re-upping a key piece; then I'd be all for it. But there's no rush.

My mindset is simple. What benefits the Flyers more?
1.) 1-2 years of AMac @ 5M, playing serviceable hockey. Resulting in a trade with no salary retained.
2.) 4 years of no AMAC @ 2.5M, playing no hockey.

Here's the best part. With option #1, if it doesn't work out; you can still trade him and get to that 2.5M number.

Now, whether the Flyers should have paid "UFA prices" on McDonald is a whole other topic. Clearly, he has not played anywhere close to the level of a $5 million defenseman.
- bmeltzer

AMac seems to have ruined Kris Russell's huge payday.

It's a very good point. What is Hextall going to do with $2.5m in extra cap space right now?
- Feanor

Take on salary in a trade, space for injury call ups, fill a suite at the WFC with left over cap space dollars to swim in during intermission

I still think the roster spot is more important than the dollar amount, but I think it will be easier to pull the trigger if a trade opportunity presents itself

(frank) Marc Bureau

Yeah - I remember that hit he put on Svoboda... very scary. What was it with Canadiens putting cheap head-shots on Flyers? Chelios' hit on Propp still rankles me to this day... and that was 27 (!) years ago.

Weise is also a guy who can play in the top 6 when injuries and suspensions happen, like, for example, games 1-3 of this season where Big Bad Brayden Schenn gets a DOPS-imposed holiday.
- Feanor

He is an ideal 3 game fill in. Good call. Maybe he pots a couple goals and goes down the line up with some extra confidence.

I would rather have Dale Weise than Ryan White, yes
- YuenglingJagr

i dont want to call it a no brainer, because obv white brought things that were needed for this team, but weise brings more to the table in my opinion in terms of, pretty much everything

Like the poster under me said. What is the motivation? There is no 'Joe Banner' award for setting the gold standard in cap management. If we were talking about stocks or property management; sure. Getting back half of your sunk cost is better than getting back none of it. But with this scenario, we're talking about an NHL player who has displayed: coveted skillset; serviceable skillset; and poor skillset. You're stating that the best thing is to cut our losses. I assume you think that he would never reach his "coveted" status again.

Personally, I don't see the harm in holding onto a 5M contract while the player attempts to build their game back up. If this was holding back Provorov or preventing us from re-upping a key piece; then I'd be all for it. But there's no rush.

My mindset is simple. What benefits the Flyers more?
1.) 1-2 years of AMac @ 5M, playing serviceable hockey. Resulting in a trade with no salary retained.
2.) 4 years of no AMAC @ 2.5M, playing no hockey.

Here's the best part. With option #1, if it doesn't work out; you can still trade him and get to that 2.5M number.
- steelydan

It is a bit of an assumption to say he's getting in the way of young defensemen, but he's without a doubt taking time from them. I am certainly not going to attempt to turn this into a debate about his skillset, so I am ignoring that. As far as him building himself back up? I dont know...you lost me there. His game has been the same

I am not saying stick a sign on AMac that says "clearance - 50 off%" but if a situation presents itself in the immediate future that allows the Flyers to get out of the contract for any type of asset...retaining money should not stop them. 2 years of amac at full salary is the same as 4 years at half salary. Also, his contract is back loaded so they are saving money by getting rid of him earlier.

Take on salary in a trade, space for injury call ups, fill a suite at the WFC with left over cap space dollars to swim in during intermission

I still think the roster spot is more important than the dollar amount, but I think it will be easier to pull the trigger if a trade opportunity presents itself
- YuenglingJagr

They can gain the roster spot by doing the same thing they did last season.

2 years of amac at full salary is the same as 4 years at half salary. Also, his contract is back loaded so they are saving money by getting rid of him earlier.
- YuenglingJagr

Just going to address the last part of your quote as I also don't want to get into a discussion about his skillset, etc. Dollars-wise, 2 years of full salary is the same as 4 years of half salary. But that's only a small part of the picture.

I think it's pretty clear why 2 years of full salary is advantageous to 4 years of half salary. Simply put, this team is not hurting for cap space this year. And they may or may not be hurting for it next season. But in the span of 4 years? I'm sure that 2.5M dead cap hit will preclude them from signing a FA, re-upping a roster player, etc. But, like I said, if he plays two years and draws the interest of another team; then there would be zero cap hit. I don't think it can get any clearer than that...