Yes really. Hakstol seemed to agree as well once he was back in the lineup.

I think he is a solid 4-5.
- MBFlyerfan

hakstol AND hexy also agreed he wasnt good enough to not be sent down. having injuries and being called to play doesnt mean hakstol agreed he's a bona fide dman, it means his options were limited and he played what he had. he's far from being a solid anything, much less a 4

Probably going to be crucified for this but I don't think you see provorov this year unless it's a long term injury call up. I think about it this way we need roles. We need a top pairing (we don't have) we need 4 pkers. We need 2-3 pp guys. So let's say provorov makes the team. Can he pk? I think that's a lot to ask of the kid right away. I don't necessarily think he's ready to come on and log heavy pk minutes play all situations hockey. We know ghost and Streit are better suited not on the pk. Pp? Is he an upgrade over Streit or mdz ? Sure but is he a significant enough upgrade to lose everything else those guys bring. Mdz was our best defenseman before going down. Streit is one of our leaders in a locker room that was questioned about leadership during parts of last season. Schultz for whatever you want to say about him blocked somewhere in the realm of 30 ovi shots on the pk last year you remove him that could of been 10 15 more goals. Gudas this forum likes so I don't think I need to comment on him. I don't see it. I think you could just as easily see provorov getting another year of juniors and potentially a year in the ahl. Also remember Sanheim 1st camp verse his 2nd. Rock star year 1 conservative year 2 who needs work.

Also the white argument. He's never showed that much offense in his life or shoot percentage. There is every reason to believe he won't ever do that again. He also took several untimely penalties and had a reputation that led him to penalties that shouldn't of been called. Gordon will never put you in that situation. Weise while not a Rockstar top 6 guy is a top 9 guy whose provided that everywhere he goes. While he walks the line he doesn't generate a top of penalties called on himself. He also has proven to be able to chip in secondary offense. The comparisons are assanine.
- Tfaehner

Provorov can't be called up from Juniors.

If he wasn't making 5mil a year, we'd probably like him a little more, even with his shortcomings.
- johndewar

That is the whole issue. He is nowhere near worth what he is being paid. But if he were making 3-3.5 we would be viewing him as a set it and forget it 3rd pair guy.

If he wasn't making 5mil a year, we'd probably like him a little more, even with his shortcomings.
- johndewar

typically i would agree with this, but with Amac, i still think we'd have issues with him./ the contract makes it far worse, but i still think even if it was a 3 mil a year, the fan base would still complain about him

Provorov can't be called up from Juniors.
- PhillySportsGuy

Only on an emergency basis, like Giroux was back in '07-'08.

That is the whole issue. He is nowhere near worth what he is being paid. But if he were making 3-3.5 we would be viewing him as a set it and forget it 3rd pair guy.
- MBFlyerfan

wow, now you're just giving my set it and forget it ribs a bad name

MacDonald is a fringe NHLer. Anyone who signed off on that contract is culpable.
- PhillySportsGuy

He's Chris Butler with an NHL job.

You mean part of team that won two Stanley Cups? Terrible move
- YuenglingJagr

So you think it was a good move by LA? Yeah they won the cups, but they prob would have won without him too. They evaluated that they'd rather have Richards than both Schenn and Simmonds. You agree with that evaluation?

typically i would agree with this, but with Amac, i still think we'd have issues with him./ the contract makes it far worse, but i still think even if it was a 3 mil a year, the fan base would still complain about him
- sjk540

Right or wrong, I think Nick Schultz would be an even bigger whipping boy than he is already.

He's like a 3rd or 4th line forward that doesn't look out of place in a small sample size on a higher line, but over time, gets badly exposed.
- johndewar

I guess it depends on what you look for. He plays so passively that it's difficult to find mistakes, but if you constantly back off at the blue line and chip the puck out, you're eventually going to get beat.

I think the hardest thing to explain to "hockey people" is that there is still risk in playing conservatively. In most cases, there is more risk!

Only on an emergency basis, like Giroux was back in '07-'08.
- johndewar

Of all of that this was the only comment came from it lol. I also think it's just as likely now that the entire nhl will game plan for ghost that he could potentially take a step back instead of forward. I love ghost. It's just a very real possibility.

I think it is very obvious that Andrew MacDonald is not a player that deserves 5 million dollars per year. So saying he just needs to play okay for 2 more years and the Flyers get off without a scratch is making some VERY big assumptions. Teams will just LOVE giving up assets for a 31 year old "okay" defenseman making above market value. The Flyers made the mistake of paying him more than he is worth (deserved) so it will be their responsibility to adjust that salary to a level that is acceptable to another team
- YuenglingJagr

I think the point is that with less term on his deal, he'd be easier to move in a trade. Even then it will most likely require retaining salary.

hakstol AND hexy also agreed he wasnt good enough to not be sent down. having injuries and being called to play doesnt mean hakstol agreed he's a bona fide dman, it means his options were limited and he played what he had. he's far from being a solid anything, much less a 4
- sjk540

No, they both agreed he was good enough and went on record numerous times saying so, but the cap hit was the problem.

He was the worst option of the 7 d on the roster yet was still near the top for ice time when he was on the NHL roster. Hakstol needs to go.

Only on an emergency basis, like Giroux was back in '07-'08.
- johndewar

The Flyers have 800 defenseman between the NHL and AHL. I just don't see that happening.

Of all of that this was the only comment came from it lol. I also think it's just as likely now that the entire nhl will game plan for ghost that he could potentially take a step back instead of forward. I love ghost. It's just a very real possibility.
- Tfaehner

The whole "sophomore slump" thing for Ghost? Maybe.

He seems like a real competitive dude, though. I could easily see him taking another step forward as I could hitting a wall in his second year.

It'll be fun to watch.

so hes just "fine" as a 3rd pairing guy, IF hes with the right partner? i just dont see it, i cringe every time someone comes down the right side of the ice with speed, he just isnt reliable, even for a 3rd pairing guy in my mind.
- sjk540

There aren't many teams where 3rd pairing guys are reliable. If I had to put a number on it, I'd say he's a #6 defenseman.

No, they both agreed he was good enough and went on record numerous times saying so, but the cap hit was the problem.

He was the worst option of the 7 d on the roster yet was still near the top for ice time when he was on the NHL roster. Hakstol needs to go.
- MBFlyerfan

that doesnt prove or disprove anything, what GM and coach would both come out and roast a guy? i mean yes there are guys like Tortorella roaming around but Hak and HExy arent those guys. i refuse to believe that if hexy had a deal on the table for amac it wouldn't be done.

Really? Even watching him night in and night out the last two years, still think he is a "bona fide" NHL dman? i think hes a tweener, he obviously looks great in the AHL, but he is too passive and out of position too much, and makes too many bad decisions, while it seems like second guessing himself at every turn.
- sjk540

He does play a cautious game, but he's not out of position too much. He's rarely out of position. That's one of his strengths. I think he had some confidence issues, and has struggled at times, but overall, he is definitely an NHL defenseman.

The Flyers have 800 defenseman between the NHL and AHL. I just don't see that happening.
- PhillySportsGuy

list them

The whole "sophomore slump" thing for Ghost? Maybe.

He seems like a real competitive dude, though. I could easily see him taking another step forward as I could hitting a wall in his second year.

It'll be fun to watch.
- johndewar

I don't necessarily think a slump. But I'm also not banking him to be on par with EK or burns like most of the forum. Hoping mdz coming back strong can take some heat off him but every team they play will have him marked with G simmonds jake. It's a different world.

Right or wrong, I think Nick Schultz would be an even bigger whipping boy than he is already.
- johndewar

that may be true for last year, but schultz had a great year all things considered two years ago before he garnered that extension. he noticeably lost a step this past year, but he had a solid body of work for us one year, and even so having a down year this year, played valuable minutes on the PK, and was one of our best dmen down the stretch and into the playoffs.

The Flyers have 800 defenseman between the NHL and AHL. I just don't see that happening.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think this is also the reason why AMac is either going to be traded or just live on the NHL roster.

You don't want AMac taking ice time away from someone like Sanheim or Morin down in LHV.

I think it is very obvious that Andrew MacDonald is not a player that deserves 5 million dollars per year. So saying he just needs to play okay for 2 more years and the Flyers get off without a scratch is making some VERY big assumptions. Teams will just LOVE giving up assets for a 31 year old "okay" defenseman making above market value. The Flyers made the mistake of paying him more than he is worth (deserved) so it will be their responsibility to adjust that salary to a level that is acceptable to another team
- YuenglingJagr

I've never tried to make the argument that he was worth his cap hit. I won't try to make that argument because I don't believe it.

As a fan, I don't really care what he makes. He was given the contract and there's no mulligans. All I really care about is that he plays good hockey while not blocking prospects (or preventing the Flyers from making necessary moves). In my opinion, he's satisfying both requirements. So why move him? Just for the sake of it? You're allowed to have a bad contract. Hextall does not have to spend every waking minute looking to move AMac. It's clear that his value is low now. So you put him in, let him play, and hope that he builds his value back up.

I'm not looking to turn AMac into the next reclamation project so that we can steal a 2nd rounder from another team. I'd be fine trading him and a 7th for another team's 7th. At some point, that cap space (and roster spot) will be pivotal for us to have. It's just not this year. So again. Why the trade-with-retained-salary talk today?

He's Chris Butler with an NHL job.
- Tomahawk

Not for long LOLOLOLOLOL!

No, they both agreed he was good enough and went on record numerous times saying so, but the cap hit was the problem.

He was the worst option of the 7 d on the roster yet was still near the top for ice time when he was on the NHL roster. Hakstol needs to go.
- MBFlyerfan

Hakstol gave a "fringe NHL player" 22 minutes of ice time in a playoff elimination game.