Thats what I (frank)ing thought. I run this thread.

The issue for the Flyers is replacement cost. Overall, scoring is a general concern for the team, which Hextall has acknowledged. They really don't have many pieces in the system that are 60+ point players within the next 3-4 years. Konecny is the only realistic option in that window. Going to the UFA market is going to cost more than what Schenn will get in this deal.

So the team has some constraints to manage in this negotiation. Not saying Schenn has all the leverage, but Hextall is not dealing from absolute strength either.
- TheGreat28

Better to lack it than to get involved in a long term deal that over pays a good, but not exceptional player. That's my primary goal. Schenn doesn't do enough for me to be willing to overpay him, especially over a longer term.

So if a deal cant be reached, go to arbitration, take the award and then try to trade him.

I don't want to overpay Schenn either, but I think 5M AAV is a fair deal. If we look at the arbitration figures submitted, there seems to be a compromise available in the 4.8-5M range. So the question is, what side is unwilling to compromise. I'm tending to lean towards Schenn winning in arbitration. I think 5.5M is entering into the overpaying range.

I don't hate him, but I was kinda hoping they'd trade him
- PhillySportsGuy

He's someone who is a good scorer, and while he may be more a complimentary player, it's not like he's not important right now to the team. If he's signed to 4 years at ~4.75-5, it's not some albatross that's immovable or that the Flyers will regret -- I'm pretty sure he will produce his ~50 points. It won't kill the cap, and it's probably fair.

The only reason some of us (me?) were curious about trade options was the idea of selling high on him. Not because we (me) think it's some AMac level contract bomb.

Matt Read was a 20 goal scorer. Signed his new deal and he exploded.

Schenn will go the same route. Schenns game hasn't changed or improved. His line mates have.

Better to lack it than to get involved in a long term deal that over pays a good, but not exceptional player. That's my primary goal. Schenn doesn't do enough for me to be willing to overpay him, especially over a longer term.

So if a deal cant be reached, go to arbitration, take the award and then try to trade him.
- Jsaquella

Here's the thing. If it goes to arbitration and the Flyers win, where is the team if he walks in 2 years? Now, that's a long time and they can of course extend him before they get to that point. But still, their replacement options for under 5 million are slim.

I'm curious about the disparity between the team's offer and Schenn's ask, if Friedman's numbers are correct.

He's someone who is a good scorer, and while he may be more a complimentary player, it's not like he's not important right now to the team. If he's signed to 4 years at ~4.75-5, it's not some albatross that's immovable or that the Flyers will regret -- I'm pretty sure he will produce his ~50 points. It won't kill the cap, and it's probably fair.

The only reason some of us (me?) were curious about trade options was the idea of selling high on him. Not because we (me) think it's some AMac level contract bomb.
- Mononoke

Matt Read.

Matt Read was a 20 goal scorer. Signed his new deal and he exploded.

Schenn will go the same route. Schenns game hasn't changed or improved. His line mates have.
- MikesPillBottle

Schenn's scoring totals have increased every season as a Flyer.

Matt Read is approaching 30. Brayden Schenn is 25.

I don't want to overpay Schenn either, but I think 5M AAV is a fair deal. If we look at the arbitration figures submitted, there seems to be a compromise available in the 4.8-5M range. So the question is, what side is unwilling to compromise. I'm tending to lean towards Schenn winning in arbitration. I think 5.5M is entering into the overpaying range.
- MJL

I agree. It seems like Hextall wants to slot Schenn into the Couturier range, but that ship has sailed. 4.8 - 5 mil is more realistic range. And a year from now, assuming he has a comparable season to last year, 5.5 million will be the going rate.

Schenn's scoring totals have increased every season as a Flyer.

Matt Read is approaching 30. Brayden Schenn is 25.
- MJL

Same things people are saying about Schenn they said about Read.

There are more bad contracts than good in the NHL.

I agree. It seems like Hextall wants to slot Schenn into the Couturier range, but that ship has sailed. 4.8 - 5 mil is more realistic range. And a year from now, assuming he has a comparable season to last year, 5.5 million will be the going rate.
- TheGreat28

To me Coots is far more valuable to the team. Paying Schenn more sends the wrong message.

He's someone who is a good scorer, and while he may be more a complimentary player, it's not like he's not important right now to the team. If he's signed to 4 years at ~4.75-5, it's not some albatross that's immovable or that the Flyers will regret -- I'm pretty sure he will produce his ~50 points. It won't kill the cap, and it's probably fair.

The only reason some of us (me?) were curious about trade options was the idea of selling high on him. Not because we (me) think it's some AMac level contract bomb.
- Mononoke

This is how I feel as well. I really want the team to try going after a young forward with top line potential. I felt Schenn could be a part of a big package (code) to get one. I worry about Giroux and the pounding he's taken over the years (code). How much longer does he have as a #1 center? I don't believe the Flyers have anyone in the system with the upside of a 1C (Maybe Couturier with the right linemates?).

They're also likely to be competitive from here on out, so the chances of getting a top pick and securing a top line player in the draft seem pretty remote.

Same things people are saying about Schenn they said about Read.

There are more bad contracts than good in the NHL.
- MikesPillBottle

What people were saying is really irrelevant.

Feel free to quantify that there are more bad contracts than good in the NHL.

In response to your other post, comparing Couturier, scoring is what gets paid in the NHL.

What people were saying is really irrelevant.

Feel free to quantify that there are more bad contracts than good in the NHL.

In response to your other post, comparing Couturier, scoring is what gets paid in the NHL.
- MJL

What you say is irrelevant.

To me Coots is far more valuable to the team. Paying Schenn more sends the wrong message.
- MikesPillBottle

What message does it send? That if you continue to produce and play well you'll be compensated according to market rates?

Yes, I guess that would be the wrong message.

This is how I feel as well. I really want the team to try going after a young forward with top line potential. I felt Schenn could be a part of a big package (code) to get one. I worry about Giroux and the pounding he's taken over the years (code). How much longer does he have as a #1 center? I don't believe the Flyers have anyone in the system with the upside of a 1C (Maybe Couturier with the right linemates?).

They're also likely to be competitive from here on out, so the chances of getting a top pick and securing a top line player in the draft seem pretty remote.
- PhillySportsGuy

Schenn is the only asset we have to trade to get a top winger and he isn't worth enough to get us close to one.

Every other asset we have is worth to much to is to move. If the flyers wanted him long term he would be here long term.

Hexy is in our camp when it comes to Schenn.

What you say is irrelevant.
- MikesPillBottle

Thats correct in the big picture.

What message does it send? That if you continue to produce and play well you'll be compensated according to market rates?

Yes, I guess that would be the wrong message.
- TheGreat28

Schenn played well? He is an average player who had a few good months playing on the power play.

Schenn is the only asset we have to trade to get a top winger and he isn't worth enough to get us close to one.

Every other asset we have is worth to much to is to move. If the flyers wanted him long term he would be here long term.

Hexy is in our camp when it comes to Schenn.
- MikesPillBottle

Hextall is on record stating that he wants to sign Schenn to a long term deal.

Schenn is the only asset we have to trade to get a top winger and he isn't worth enough to get us close to one.

Every other asset we have is worth to much to is to move. If the flyers wanted him long term he would be here long term.

Hexy is in our camp when it comes to Schenn.
- MikesPillBottle

They could technically move Simmonds and get a better return as well

Hextall is on record stating that he wants to sign Schenn to a long term deal.
- MJL

Yet he isn't signed to one.

Schenn and Simmonds are virtually the same player. Schenn is a little more skilled, Simmonds will drop the gloves a little more. Simmonds is older, but signed to a more team-friendly deal. Schenn's scoring is on the exact trajectory as Simmond's career totals, actually very slightly better.

It's amazing how people are completely biased to one player over the other. The "best player not in NHL" phenomenon that Jsaq posted earlier is amazing.

Schenn played well? He is an average player who had a few good months playing on the power play.
- MikesPillBottle

Yes, I guess that average player is 49th in the league in scoring. Frankly, you seem to be in that camp that does not view the player objectively.

Schenn and Simmonds are virtually the same player. Schenn is a little more skilled, Simmonds will drop the gloves a little more. Simmonds is older, but signed to a more team-friendly deal. Schenn's scoring is on the exact trajectory as Simmond's career totals, actually very slightly better.

It's amazing how people are completely biased to one player over the other. The "best player not in NHL" phenomenon that Jsaq posted earlier is amazing.
- TheGreat28

You're out of your mind. Simmonds is a much better player than Schenn.

Yes, I guess that average player is 49th in the league in scoring. Frankly, you seem to be in that camp that does not view the player objectively.
- TheGreat28

49th?!?!?!?! Wow throw the bank at him now!!! 49th!!!!!!