Sure, but building from the back end out is meaningless in practice. It's the kind of thing Burke and Nonis like to say. In reality teams get the best players they can and then try to get more good players. It doesn't sound catchy, but it's true.
- Zezel

Very true & all in the grand scheme of things.
D is only 1 need for the Leafs not the only 1.
Staying the current course is good.

Keeping JVR is fine.
Trading him for a top D is only a discussion not an answer to complete the rebuild.
Much work to do yet.
- Nighthawk

This I agree with. I feel like some Leaf fans have gotten all excited, as they should be, since the Leafs rapidly added a great C prospect and a goalie, now they want to see everything fall into place this summer. But more pain could be coming.

because after Rielly we have no legitimate top-4 D, and not much that looks exciting in the system, whereas we have a number of young talented forwards (even if only 1 or 2 all-stars).

Nighthawk is not trolling. We may not agree with his opinion but it really isn't a troll and he is right about the market for D.
- Aetherial

Ty i give only my perspective.
Its about a chosen path & when what is needed when.
IMO Reilly needs a bonafide top 2 D to help him.
If standing pat fine but he is on an island then.

Very true & all in the grand scheme of things.
D is only 1 need for the Leafs not the only 1.
Staying the current course is good.
- Nighthawk

Yep, they have no reason at all not to bide their time and wait for the right opportunity for a dman. They could keep JVR until the trade deadline of his contract year if they wanted. Time is their luxury right now.

This I agree with. I feel like some Leaf fans have gotten all excited, as they should be, since the Leafs rapidly added a great C prospect and a goalie, now they want to see everything fall into place this summer. But more pain could be coming.
- Zezel

Much more pain is to come but the future is getting brighter.
I simply think if a top D could be had at fair price i would do it.
Going forward it will benefit the Leafs better in the long run.

Add 1 D & it looks good dealing with the rest of the lineup.

Yep, they have no reason at all not to bide their time and wait for the right opportunity for a dman. They could keep JVR until the trade deadline of his contract year if they wanted. Time is their luxury right now.
- Zezel

Agree patience is good.
No reason to fastrak the roster at this juncture.
Trading for a Fowler does not mean the team is going backwards though.
Down the road attracting key UFA's will depend on what is in place.
Right now the D corps is in need of stability.

No one is trolling, I understand that we need a top pairing D, I just don't want to give up JVR.

No one is trolling, I understand that we need a top pairing D, I just don't want to give up JVR.
- Bower

I hearya. Simply playing the what if game.
Go out & get D or stay the course.

Yeah I can't figure that one out either. People seem to think that they just need to use JVR to plug in a dman and bingo bango the rebuild is complete. Seem to forget Matthews, Marner and Nylander are all rookies.
- Zezel

I don't want to trade JVR. I would even extend him. I like JVR a lot.

But......the big issue I see is that we don't have that Top 2D in the system that's even close to ready....if we even have one at all.

On the flip side, wingers are a little easier to acquire and we have a lot of prospects with potential.

JVR is the only piece we have of value now. Reilly building chemistry with a partner for the next couple of years while Kadri, Komarov, Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Sosh, Hyman, Brown, Rychel, Kapenen, Leivo, Lindberg, Bracco, A. Johnson, Timashov.....all figure their poop out up front.....I think that's a good path to playoffs.

because after Rielly we have no legitimate top-4 D, and not much that looks exciting in the system, whereas we have a number of young talented forwards (even if only 1 or 2 all-stars).

Nighthawk is not trolling. We may not agree with his opinion but it really isn't a troll and he is right about the market for D.
- Aetherial

Ok, We trade jvr for a d-man, and then we start trading d-men and prospects for a top LW which we will not have once jvr is gone - is that what we should do?

I don't want to trade JVR. I would even extend him. I like JVR a lot.

But......the big issue I see is that we don't have that Top 2D in the system that's even close to ready....if we even have one at all.

On the flip side, wingers are a little easier to acquire and we have a lot of prospects with potential.

JVR is the only piece we have of value now. Reilly building chemistry with a partner for the next couple of years while Kadri, Komarov, Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Sosh, Hyman, Brown, Rychel, Kapenen, Leivo, Lindberg, Bracco, A. Johnson, Timashov.....all figure their poop out up front.....I think that's a good path to playoffs.
- underhill14

I think we basically agree...I just think the Leafs have the luxury right now where they can fire up this roster and see what happens, they can wait for the killer deal to come along. Especially nice for the Leafs because they have shown they can use their financial power to their advantage in some cases to pull kinds of deals other teams can't. I trust in ShannaLou that they'll do that, let Babcock do his thing with what he has now, and wait for the time to snipe.

I don't want to trade JVR. I would even extend him. I like JVR a lot.

But......the big issue I see is that we don't have that Top 2D in the system that's even close to ready....if we even have one at all.

On the flip side, wingers are a little easier to acquire and we have a lot of prospects with potential.

JVR is the only piece we have of value now. Reilly building chemistry with a partner for the next couple of years while Kadri, Komarov, Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Sosh, Hyman, Brown, Rychel, Kapenen, Leivo, Lindberg, Bracco, A. Johnson, Timashov.....all figure their poop out up front.....I think that's a good path to playoffs.
- underhill14

Making a good trade for D goes a lot further than many might agree with.
It is always costly & has never changed. What is important is who is targeted.
IMO adding a top 2 D goes further & the future allows more options.
JVR is an undeniable talent. Boils down to if getting a D is better at this juncture.

Now you are avoiding my questions.

Name the LW's in the NHL that are irrefutably better than JVR?
Name the D-men in the NHL that are irrefutably better than Fowler?

Not a trade a good GM makes.
- winsix

Ok, We trade jvr for a d-man, and then we start trading d-men and prospects for a top LW which we will not have once jvr is gone - is that what we should do?
- winsix

If JVR moved for D man then draft & develop still.
No need to get trade happy afterwards.

Also, ideally, if Babcock is worth his cash, as the season goes along hopefully it becomes apparent that JVR is not the only piece of value...or maybe next year.

Basically what I'm saying is I'd have a much higher bar for trading JVR than some on here I think. I feel like I like his game more than some, I'm excited to see how he does this year with some of these new skill kids coming in.

Ok, We trade jvr for a d-man, and then we start trading d-men and prospects for a top LW which we will not have once jvr is gone - is that what we should do?
- winsix

We do have quite a stable of forwards that will hopefully replace JVR. ( if that were to happen...I don't think it does this year myself. )

I think we could use a top pairing D.

Ok, We trade jvr for a d-man, and then we start trading d-men and prospects for a top LW which we will not have once jvr is gone - is that what we should do?
- winsix

My issue is extending a 29 year-old JVR until his mid-thirties for big $.

If we can flip him to some dumb ass GM for a solid younger dman, I’d be all for it.

We do have quite a stable of forwards that will hopefully replace JVR. ( if that were to happen...I don't think it does this year myself. )

I think we could use a top pairing D.
- Garnie

Down the middle is fine with AM Kadri & Bozek
Marner & Nylander ready soon.
Reilly then Gardiner with iffy d.
The timing may not be perfect to move JVR but is worth considering.
This year is prolly not the time for big trades but never say never.

We do have quite a stable of forwards that will hopefully replace JVR. ( if that were to happen...I don't think it does this year myself. )

I think we could use a top pairing D.
- Garnie

How many in that stable are LW's? Important question. Depth at LW after JVR is Lupul, Rychel, Michalek and Martin - are you sure you want to give up the top guy in that group?

Regarding the Cowan situation:

Leafs buy him out, but pay him full salary as compensation

Also, ideally, if Babcock is worth his cash, as the season goes along hopefully it becomes apparent that JVR is not the only piece of value...or maybe next year.

Basically what I'm saying is I'd have a much higher bar for trading JVR than some on here I think. I feel like I like his game more than some, I'm excited to see how he does this year with some of these new skill kids coming in.
- Zezel

I'm walking a line between you and NightHawk. I agree with both of your points.

I guess it all comes down to info we don't have.

Is JVR a part of the future?
What is his value to other GM's with 2 years left at $4.25m?
What is his value to other GM's with 1 year left at $4.25m?

...plus add in point production and injuries or not....lot of variables.

My issue is extending a 29 year-old JVR until his mid-thirties for big $.

If we can flip him to some dumb ass GM for a solid younger dman, I’d be all for it.
- Tumbleweed

only problem is JVR is 27 - it would be a good move to extend him now. Less than half the teams in the NHL have a LW of his caliber. Look at Ottawa - their top LW is MacArthur.

only problem is JVR is 27 - it would be a good move to extend him now. Less than half the teams in the NHL have a LW of his caliber. Look at Ottawa - their top LW is MacArthur.
- winsix

He'll be 29 going into his next deal.

Regarding the Cowan situation:

Leafs buy him out, but pay him full salary as compensation
- burn

Do they still get the cap credit?

I think it's a balance. You don't have to build from the net out. You don't have to go all forwards. Nashville have a great d as do St. Louis. Neither one has been close to a cup. Same with Anaheim (recent years). Pittsburgh's D isn't much to write home about but they're Stanley Cup Champions.

Edmonton's forwards were/are great. Can't get in the playoffs. Get elite forwards (including a couple of 2 way), make sure you have one great dman. Then convince the rest they have to focus 100% on both aspects of the game.