I think my point was missed here

It was that regardless of icetime, Ennis has been productive throughout his career... Not just recently when he's gotten big minutes
- jdfitz77

I got your point. I'm just comparing Ennis and Kane's situation. They both miss time

Agreed, this would be the area where you'd hope your drafting pays off.
- Sabresfan-365

This, which was another reason I was pretty anti-Murray up until this past draft. I thought his 2014-15 drafts were pitiful considering the amount of picks we should have had going into them.

This is excluding Eichel/Reinhart. Harambe could have picked them

How much did Kessel, Hagelin & Bonino all make?
- jdfitz77

I get that but what I was trying to get at is more something along this:

Kessel, Malkin, Crosby, Hornqvist, Hagelin, Kunitz total $= 33.1 mil

Sheary, Fehr, Bonino, Sunqvist, Rust, Kuhnackl total $= 6.525 mil


This seems to be the sort of split that cup contenders have amongst forwards. Now you can mix and match what lines they all go on to try and spread out scoring but for the most part the 6/6 split still exists in terms of cap hit.

This, which was another reason I was pretty anti-Murray up until this past draft. I thought his 2014-15 drafts were pitiful considering the amount of picks we should have had going into them.

This is excluding Eichel/Reinhart. Harambe could have picked them
- sbroads24

Aside from the Moulson signing his 14 draft pissed me off the most of any of his moves. No disrespect to Olofsson who im a big fan of but the 7th rounder should not become the 2nd best player you picked in that draft months after that draft happened, especially when you have THREE 2nd rounders.

This, which was another reason I was pretty anti-Murray up until this past draft. I thought his 2014-15 drafts were pitiful considering the amount of picks we should have had going into them.

This is excluding Eichel/Reinhart. Harambe could have picked them
- sbroads24

Gotta remember a reason why so many picks were moved was to build the roster up with NHL players. You can make the case that the trades weren't what you wanted (but he did get ROR). Some of the draft picks were questionable but maybe he does know what he is doing...

For the record I loved the draft this year.

I said in a dream scenario. It also doesn't mean it has to be this coming season.

The 4th line would be

Foligno Larrson and a player not on the team with Delo being the extra forward.

I am hoping Moulson goes to Vegas (fingers crossed please please please) Gionta retires after this coming season. Ennis is the only one traded.

I do think in a year or sooner Ennis is not on the team. A lot does depend on Kane though.
- Stripes77

If Ennis bounces back this year (I think he will),
He would regain some trade value and be moved in a package for a pretty good defenseman
That's a next offseason type move IMO
Kane could also get traded after this year
I like him as a player, but he's kinda douchey & needs to grow up

The way we're looking right now...
I think Moulson will get bought out after next season
Vegas will end up taking Carrier, or someone like that
They won't have much to choose from, and will need some guys on their AHal team with potential to be called up

Aside from the Moulson signing his 14 draft pissed me off the most of any of his moves. No disrespect to Olofsson who im a big fan of but the 7th rounder should not become the 2nd best player you picked in that draft months after that draft happened, especially when you have THREE 2nd rounders.
- Sabresfan-365

It is still super early to call those picks busts though.

Granted they didn't exactly set the world on fire this season but hockey players are fickle human beings...

Gotta remember a reason why so many picks were moved was to build the roster up with NHL players. You can make the case that the trades weren't what you wanted (but he did get ROR). Some of the draft picks were questionable but maybe he does know what he is doing...

For the record I loved the draft this year.
- Stripes77

I did too. Which is a reason I have come around on Murray a little

Aside from the Moulson signing his 14 draft pissed me off the most of any of his moves. No disrespect to Olofsson who im a big fan of but the 7th rounder should not become the 2nd best player you picked in that draft months after that draft happened, especially when you have THREE 2nd rounders.
- Sabresfan-365

Agreed. Karabacek looks like a bust, and I have little to no hopes for Cornel. And he traded Lemieux in a lopsided deal.

With the way Draisaitl and Bennett looked out of the gate, I was thinking that Murray was a buffoon

I got your point. I'm just comparing Ennis and Kane's situation. They both miss time
- sbroads24

Sure...
You've made that point repeatedly
We do have guys that can come up & fill in when injuries happen
As long as guys like Kane & Ennis produce when they are in the lineup, I'm ok with some games being missed
Makes more sense then signing a guy like Vermette, even if he's more likely to play 82 games
U don't just dump guys that can score...
Even if u know it's pretty likely they'll miss time at some point

Agreed. Karabacek looks like a bust, and I have little to no hopes for Cornel. And he traded Lemieux in a lopsided deal.

With the way Draisaitl and Bennett looked out of the gate, I was thinking that Murray was a buffoon
- sbroads24

Draisaitl is probably going to be the forward from the 2014 draft class that produces the most (but that doesn't make him the best forward). But no way any team with a rookie GM was going to take a German (no offense Kaiser) as the top forward in the draft. Plus I am sure playing on a team with McDavid helped. I am curious to see how he produces without Hall on the team.

Bennett looked great at first but came back down to earth hard. I think he picked the right Sam.

I get that but what I was trying to get at is more something along this:

Kessel, Malkin, Crosby, Hornqvist, Hagelin, Kunitz total $= 33.1 mil

Sheary, Fehr, Bonino, Sunqvist, Rust, Kuhnackl total $= 6.525 mil


This seems to be the sort of split that cup contenders have amongst forwards. Now you can mix and match what lines they all go on to try and spread out scoring but for the most part the 6/6 split still exists in terms of cap hit.
- Sabresfan-365

Yeah, I hear ya
That's probably why the plan is to have guys like Bailey, Fasching & Nylander eventually replace guys like Moulson & Gionta... And quite possibly Kane &/or Ennis at some point

Draisaitl is probably going to be the forward from the 2014 draft class that produces the most (but that doesn't make him the best forward). But no way any team with a rookie GM was going to take a German (no offense Kaiser) as the top forward in the draft. Plus I am sure playing on a team with McDavid helped. I am curious to see how he produces without Hall on the team.

Bennett looked great at first but came back down to earth hard. I think he picked the right Sam.
- Stripes77

I think it's still a toss up as to who the best of the 3 will be. Bennett is pretty fun to watch. Wish we had his speed.

I like Reinhart a lot, and he proved he's going to be very good. So either way we got a good player, but for a little while it didn't look that way

What has ennis done to deserve so much support in here?
- hubie

Probably because he's an above average player.

Agreed. Karabacek looks like a bust, and I have little to no hopes for Cornel. And he traded Lemieux in a lopsided deal.

With the way Draisaitl and Bennett looked out of the gate, I was thinking that Murray was a buffoon
- sbroads24

I cannot believe that the GM who made his living off of the draft was unable to move back into the 1st round with 3 2nd rounders. like if he moved all 3 for say pick 25 youd say at the time yea thats a lot to give up but you do it cuz you think you'll get the best player in the deal and that the guy who made his name via the draft knows what hes doing. Especially since pick 25 was Pastrnak and if you offered the 3 guys we drafted for him right now you'd get laughed at.

Yeah, I hear ya
That's probably why the plan is to have guys like Bailey, Fasching & Nylander eventually replace guys like Moulson & Gionta... And quite possibly Kane &/or Ennis at some point
- jdfitz77

Seems that way but at this point im much more confident in the "replacers" on D than at forward.

It is still super early to call those picks busts though.

Granted they didn't exactly set the world on fire this season but hockey players are fickle human beings...
- Stripes77

Just really left me scratching my head


Edit: Hatty

I cannot believe that the GM who made his living off of the draft was unable to move back into the 1st round with 3 2nd rounders. like if he moved all 3 for say pick 25 youd say at the time yea thats a lot to give up but you do it cuz you think you'll get the best player in the deal and that the guy who made his name via the draft knows what hes doing. Especially since pick 25 was Pastrnak and if you offered the 3 guys we drafted for him right now you'd get laughed at.
- Sabresfan-365

Should have offered all 3 2nd rounders for Lehner. Not even kidding

I cannot believe that the GM who made his living off of the draft was unable to move back into the 1st round with 3 2nd rounders. like if he moved all 3 for say pick 25 youd say at the time yea thats a lot to give up but you do it cuz you think you'll get the best player in the deal and that the guy who made his name via the draft knows what hes doing. Especially since pick 25 was Pastrnak and if you offered the 3 guys we drafted for him right now you'd get laughed at.
- Sabresfan-365

I think Murray is on record as saying that he did offer all 3 second rounders but there were no takers.

Seems that way but at this point im much more confident in the "replacers" on D than at forward.
- Sabresfan-365

I honestly think Justin Bailey is going to be really, really good. He was great at the prospects game. Much better than Fasching, and better than Nylander (I know, age)

I think Murray is on record as saying that he did offer all 3 second rounders but there were no takers.
- SabreWest

I don't recall him saying there were no takers, I just remember him saying he tried to get back into the middle of the first round to grab Tuch or Larkin or whoever it was but he couldnt find any takers. I find it hard to believe that none of those teams from 20-30 would have entertained that offer. Or even another team where you could take on a young player who has fallen out of favour or something.

This, which was another reason I was pretty anti-Murray up until this past draft. I thought his 2014-15 drafts were pitiful considering the amount of picks we should have had going into them.

This is excluding Eichel/Reinhart. Harambe could have picked them
- sbroads24

I hated his 2014 draft in the 2nd round

Should've taken Barbashev over Lemieux, but that was kind of excusable
Thing that gets me pissed was then taking Cornel (who I kinda like actually), and especially Karabacek
McKeown & Doughty were still there & good defenseman prospects at a time when we really needed to restock defense & had plenty of forward prospects

IMO, the Karabacek move was the worst mistake he's made so far
Brutal pick

I honestly think Justin Bailey is going to be really, really good. He was great at the prospects game. Much better than Fasching, and better than Nylander (I know, age)
- sbroads24

I agree but there's something about his finishing abilities (lack thereof) thats very alarming. It reminds of this one nhler whos name escapes me but had all the tools to be a really good forward but with no finishing capabilities he just couldn't put up the numbers to be valuable enough.

I hated his 2014 draft in the 2nd round

Should've taken Barbashev over Lemieux, but that was kind of excusable
Thing that gets me pissed was then taking Cornel (who I kinda like actually), and especially Karabacek
McKeown & Doughty were still there & good defenseman prospects at a time when we really needed to restock defense & had plenty of forward prospects

IMO, the Karabacek move was the worst mistake he's made so far
Brutal pick
- jdfitz77

Forget them, Montour and Dvorak were still on the board

I hate that people frown on his size. As long as you're not asking him to play that role he's going to be effective against those weaker lines. I think that sophomore year where he he really gained some fans he was doing most of that on the third line no? Rust and Kunitz aren't exactly big guys and they were more than effective on pitts third line.
- Sabresfan-365

He made his bones playing along side Crosby. His career high in goals was 25 in 05-06 when he was 26. And when you eclipse that by 10 for 35 in your 34 year old season playing along side Crosby you can pretty much give Crosby the credit for at least 10 of those goals, probably more considering 99% of players drop off especially after 30.

He's the perfect comp to Ennis. A 20ish goal guy who never really played with anyone of any significance, oh sure, I'm sure he played with Getzlaf some in Anaheim, but he wasn't his full time center. And hopefully the second part comes true as well, on both fronts him raising his game and the Crosby-like player in Eichel.

And holy poop Kunitz is 36, he looks like he's 15!