I know it's just your opinion and how you feel. You aren't saying you are right or wrong but my goodness


- YuenglingJagr

The guy is entitled to an opinion, and is creating conversation, so why reply like this, with a immature gif? Why not offer a counter reply, or not reply at all. What would best improve the content of the site?

I think what some people classify as a top pairing number 1 or number 2 defenseman is the guy on the back end who collects a lot of points. I don't think Mark Streit for example was a true top pair defenseman. At least not from a top package, balanced game standard.

It's the same misconception that G is this fantastic 2 way player. He's not lost in the defensive zone like Danny Briere and used purely for offense but Giroux is nowhere close to Sean Couturier or Mike Richards. G isn't even close to Jeremy Roenick who was a legit top line center but could be used everywhere. G's bread and Butter is offense and faceoffs and can fill in on defensive situations. He's OK but not ideal.
- roenick97

I think it's more than that. I think it's easy to just look at all the situations in a game. A true top pairing defenseman is going to be a player that a coach relies to play in any and all situations, in a game, especially in a tight game, whether ahead or behind. In my opinion, Gostisbehere is not a player who should be used on the PK, and if there is 1:30 left in an important game, and the Flyers are up a goal, and there is a D zone draw against the opposition top line, with their goalie pulled, Gostisbehere should be on the bench. You wouldn't play him in that situation, unless you had no choice.

Streit was a damned good d man. He was more the definition of second pair ES, top PP, sheltered point scorer. It's a valuable role and he was valuable in it. I just don't see Streit as ever having the skating or instinctual brilliance of Ghost. By no means was Streit not an intelligent player, but Ghost does 10 moves ahead Garry Kasparov like poop that just amazes. He is dynamic in all zones. And this was his first year of pro hockey coming off a major knee injury. That he is getting slighted and shortchanged -- by Flyers fans no less -- is
- Mononoke

He's not getting slighted at all or shortchanged. Saying he was dynamic in all zones is not accurate. He had his issues in the defensive zone. For some reason, having a realistic view of the player, and stating that a team should as much as possible, put him in the best position to take advantage of his skill set, while keeping him away from situations that he is not suited for, is not shortchanging and slighting him. What that is smart deployment of a player, and also is good, winning hockey.

I think it's more than that. I think it's easy to just look at all the situations in a game. A true top pairing defenseman is going to be a player that a coach relies to play in any and all situations, in a game, especially in a tight game, whether ahead or behind. In my opinion, Gostisbehere is not a player who should be used on the PK, and if there is 1:30 left in an important game, and the Flyers are up a goal, and there is a D zone draw against the opposition top line, with their goalie pulled, Gostisbehere should be on the bench. You wouldn't play him in that situation, unless you had no choice.
- MJL

No question. How far Ghost has come is amazing in itself. He's from where? Florida? He was drafted as a third round, while being told his chances were very low at making the NHL? He's a great story. With this said, I'm not shortchanging him, I'm trying to be realistic and objective. He's not an all situations top pair number 1 or number 2. I view him as a third pair defender with PP time but I can't be mad at anyone who sees him more as a second pair guy.

No question. How far Ghost has come is amazing in itself. He's from where? Florida? He was drafted as a third round, while being told his chances were very low at making the NHL? He's a great story. With this said, I'm not shortchanging him, I'm trying to be realistic and objective. He's not an all situations top pair number 1 or number 2. I view him as a third pair defender with PP time but I can't be mad at anyone who sees him more as a second pair guy.
- roenick97

He plays too many minutes at ES and on the PP to be a 3rd pair defenseman. He makes too big of an impact on the game, to be a 3rd pair defenseman.

He plays too many minutes at ES and on the PP to be a 3rd pair defenseman. He makes too big of an impact on the game, to be a 3rd pair defenseman.
- MJL

Point taken.

Carle-Pronger
Timonen-Coburn
O'Donnell-Meszaros

Not so much disagreeing as just pointing out how sometimes things workout. Andrej Meszaros in my opinion wasn't a third pair player and probably a more reliable player in all situations than Shayne Gostisbehere.

The guy is entitled to an opinion, and is creating conversation, so why reply like this, with a immature gif? Why not offer a counter reply, or not reply at all. What would best improve the content of the site?
- MJL

I think he's old enough to speak for himself, but thanks for more of your sage wisdom. I guess maybe tomorrow we can all discuss why Zac Rinaldo was a reliable all situations forward that would've put up better numbers had he been given better line mates and more ice time while he wasn't suspended or in the penalty box, ya know, to create conversation.

He plays too many minutes at ES and on the PP to be a 3rd pair defenseman. He makes too big of an impact on the game, to be a 3rd pair defenseman.
- MJL

Too many minutes? He isn't even in the top 100 in toi/g. We'll see if he can handle top pair minutes this year. If, not the Sabres will gladly take their playoff spot.

I think he's old enough to speak for himself, but thanks for more of your sage wisdom. I guess maybe tomorrow we can all discuss why Zac Rinaldo was a reliable all situations forward that would've put up better numbers had he been given better line mates and more ice time while he wasn't suspended or in the penalty box, ya know, to create conversation.
- YuenglingJagr

I was just trying to do the mature thing by ignoring this unnecessary BS but this post is the most bitterly stupid thing I've read in response to sum up an honest assessment of a young player.

If you feel Ghost is a top pair defenseman, God Bless but if you can't discuss his shortcomings (Which all players have), this really isn't my problem.

Feel free to bookmark this page and throw this conversation back in my face in 2021 when Ghost wins the Norris but I really don't think I've been unfair to anyone today.

I want Konecny and Provorov on the team.

roenick97, you're an alt for SSB, right? I'm getting vibes and the timelines match

Ghost is going to be a top pairing dman. He probably already is if you get him the (frank) away from MacDonald and Manning and Schultz.

roenick97, you're an alt for SSB, right? I'm getting vibes and the timelines match
- Mononoke

To be fair, he's much more well-spoken than SSB.

To be fair, he's much more well-spoken than SSB.

- ThirdEye

It's possible that he's trying to disguise his tone a bit to avoid getting sniffed out. The arguments are similar though, and over the last few months, SSB has suddenly disappeared (banned?). He's said before he has a much older account. All of a sudden an old poster is posting up a storm. The timelines match. His location says Canada, MI (Michigan?) and SSB used to say he lived in Canada but near Detroit b/c he went to Wings games. Back and to the left. Back and to the left! Chem trails!

I want Konecny and Provorov on the team.
- flyer_nutter

With you on Provorov, not sure on Konecny, want to see how he does in camp before making up my mind. Provorov, from everything I've seen, is ready.

Ghost is going to be a top pairing dman. He probably already is if you get him the (frank) away from MacDonald and Manning and Schultz.
- PhillySportsGuy

I see Ghost as a 2nd pair guy who steps up to the top pair when the team is trailing in the 3rd. I don't think he'll ever be a strong enough defender in the D zone to be an all situations top pair guy.

It's possible that he's trying to disguise his tone a bit to avoid getting sniffed out. The arguments are similar though, and over the last few months, SSB has suddenly disappeared (banned?). He's said before he has a much older account. All of a sudden an old poster is posting up a storm. The timelines match. His location says Canada, MI (Michigan?) and SSB used to say he lived in Canada but near Detroit b/c he went to Wings games. Back and to the left. Back and to the left! Chem trails!
- Mononoke

Might be time for an avatar change for you...

Might be time for an avatar change for you...


- tangent_man

LOL
Just one more thing......

I don't view Gostisbehere as ever becoming a true top pairing defenseman. I see him more as a 2nd pair offensive puck mover and PP QB.
- MJL

Well.. what do you consider Karlsson? The Norris trophy winner who is extremely sheltered and doesn't play pk. Is he not a top league defenseman because he doesn't log heavy pk minutes ? I'd take an all around guy like doughty over Karlsson but the posts that ghost is a 4th 5th defenseman cause he is sheltered is assanine. Ghost very well could win a Norris for his offense if he continues. Karlsson did.

LOL
Just one more thing......
- BiggE

Don't forget the hand with the cigar on his forehead while he says that

roenick97, you're an alt for SSB, right? I'm getting vibes and the timelines match
- Mononoke

Actually, SSB is an alternate for roenick97. That account was first.

It's possible that he's trying to disguise his tone a bit to avoid getting sniffed out. The arguments are similar though, and over the last few months, SSB has suddenly disappeared (banned?). He's said before he has a much older account. All of a sudden an old poster is posting up a storm. The timelines match. His location says Canada, MI (Michigan?) and SSB used to say he lived in Canada but near Detroit b/c he went to Wings games. Back and to the left. Back and to the left! Chem trails!
- Mononoke

Okay, whether I have 2 accounts or 50, what does this have to do with hockey? What does this have to do with anything? Does it sound like I'm hiding anything?

Here's Breaking News for you, half the board already knows.

That's a bingo

I think he's old enough to speak for himself, but thanks for more of your sage wisdom. I guess maybe tomorrow we can all discuss why Zac Rinaldo was a reliable all situations forward that would've put up better numbers had he been given better line mates and more ice time while he wasn't suspended or in the penalty box, ya know, to create conversation.
- YuenglingJagr

I think most of us are old enough to know that if we don't like the topic of a conversation, we can just scroll on by, and aren't forced to read it. Not to mention that what he was discussing was a good topic.

Not sure why talking about posters such as some of the above posts is okay. Moderators are supposed to take care of that. We should be discussing hockey, and not posters.

Too many minutes? He isn't even in the top 100 in toi/g. We'll see if he can handle top pair minutes this year. If, not the Sabres will gladly take their playoff spot.
- Hatboro_Swords

Would that have anything to do with the fact that he only played 64 games? Gostisbehere averaged 20:05 ice time per game. 3rd pair defenseman do not play 20 minutes a game.