giroux scored the most points in the entire league over a 3 year stretch...if and when jack eichel does that feat then we can have this discussion
- bulet13

Hey, I love Giroux, but Eichel has been in the league for exactly 1 year on a pretty poopty team, and he did pretty damn well. I wouldn't be shocked if he becomes a top-10 center.

Dallas finished 2nd overall and Klingberg was their best defenseman

did Klingberg (frank) your mother or something?
- jimbro83

Klingberg had a great season and won some norris votes bc of it, no one is refuting that claim but that doesnt make him a better Dman over others. Its not that hard to see.

Klingberg is good, but Lindholm is better

1. Karlsson
2. Hedman
3. OEL
4. Letang
5. Burns/PK/Jossi/Lindholm (too hard to pick between those guys)

2-4 in my opinion are all very close to each other with the guys at 5 nipping at their heals. Crazy that Nashville has two of those guys I couldn't pick between. If Letang stays healthy and plays the whole season like he did the second half of last year, he skyrockets to at least the #2 spot.
- Victoro311

In what world is Letang better than Subban? Subban is better in every aspect of the game.

Klingberg had a great season and won some norris votes bc of it, no one is refuting that claim but that doesnt make him a better Dman over others. Its not that hard to see.

Klingberg is good, but Lindholm is better
- DDM-Coga

Who's Klingberg?

In what world is Letang better than Subban? Subban is better in every aspect of the game.
- Bruiniak

Letang is possibly the most underrated defenseman in the game. Pittsburgh's game with and without him are night and day.

But no, he's not as good as Subban in any way, shape, or form. I can't think of one thing that Letang does that PK does not do better.

Klingberg had a great season and won some norris votes bc of it, no one is refuting that claim but that doesnt make him a better Dman over others. Its not that hard to see.

Klingberg is good, but Lindholm is better
- DDM-Coga

because you are Lindholm's cousin on your mom's side

I'm just harping on you Flyers fans I love Giroux, If Eichel becomes another Giroux I will be very very happy
- teamvanek

<3 all is good

I think eichel will turn out to be a better 5-on-5 player than Giroux but G is one of the best PP players in the league and also has been on the PK for most of his career so in my mind at least that gives him an edge over some other centers who don't play in as many situations. also as much as everyone harps on G for his playoff performances let's not forget how dominant he was in 2012 when he led the league in playoff points over a week after the flyers were eliminated

Who's Klingberg?
- teamvanek

It probably should be though, if McD development didn't stale.
- Blackstrom2

hopefully the NYR play the Capitals in the playoffs again, I missed that last year

It blows my mind that this is hard for people to understand. Yeah, there are 5 people on the ice. When all 5 of those are not Erik Karlsson, the goals against the Sens drops like a rock. Every year.

When Shea Weber and Ryan Suter were on the ice together, they had VERY low goals against per 60.
- prock

karlsson checks off all the same boxes Weber does. The difference is that Karlsson is still good, and Weber is on the decline since '14. Put Karlsson on a better team, and you really don't think his GA will be more in line with his shot suppression?

But hey, Weber isn't your problem now.

because you are Lindholm's cousin on your mom's side
- jimbro83

you are so upset that no one is agreeing with your Klingberg hot take

actually everyone who voted for Klingberg for the Norris last year and landed him in 6th place in the voting is his brother
- jimbro83

Roman Josi was 5th in Norris voting. Drew Doughty won the trophy. That is all you need to know about NHL awards voting.

The Latin Grammys have more credibility.

hopefully the NYR play the Capitals in the playoffs again, I missed that last year
- jimbro83

McD goes full Norris worthy against us though...

Letang is possibly the most underrated defenseman in the game. Pittsburgh's game with and without him are night and day.

But no, he's not as good as Subban in any way, shape, or form. I can't think of one thing that Letang does that PK does not do better.
- jmatchett383

PK and EK are in a class of their own. They are dominant. Letang shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

Who's Klingberg?
- teamvanek

A defenseman who has great offensive instincts but is reckless with blind passes in his own zone.

No, I don't. Because like all players, even Ray Bourque and any other offensively dominating defenseman besides Bobby Orr, they have to play on an edge because, in the long run, the chances they take usually turn out for the best.

If Karlsson sacrificed his offense, he'd still be a legit top-4 defenseman based on his skill. That's not the case, and he has to push the envelope. The theory is that pushing that envelope will result in more goals for than gaffes which result in goals against.

I'm not sure if I'm conveying this right. Basically, he's going to take some chances where he gets burned, but that's based more on him trying to create offensive, not inability to play defense. Years ago, he was a purely offensive defenseman. After watching him the last few seasons, that's no longer the case.

In other news, the Flyers have no goaltending, Ovechkin's lost his game, and Pittsburgh will never win again with so much salary tied up in Crosby, Malkin, MAF, and Letang.
- jmatchett383

Yes, he sacrifices defense for offense. to the point that goals against SKYROCKET with him on the ice. the goals against per 60 when up higher with him on the ice, for the Sens, than almost every Dman in the entire league.

McD goes full Norris worthy against us though...
- Blackstrom2

in the conference finals in 2014, McDonagh had 10 points in 6 games vs Montreal

the great Subban had two points and was a non factor

so, not just the Capitals

<3 all is good

I think eichel will turn out to be a better 5-on-5 player than Giroux but G is one of the best PP players in the league and also has been on the PK for most of his career so in my mind at least that gives him an edge over some other centers who don't play in as many situations. also as much as everyone harps on G for his playoff performances let's not forget how dominant he was in 2012 when he led the league in playoff points over a week after the flyers were eliminated
- bulet13

He should be on Team Canada for sure

PK and EK are in a class of their own. They are dominant. Letang shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.
- Bruiniak

In what world is Letang better than Subban? Subban is better in every aspect of the game.
- Bruiniak

...just sayin...

I might get poop on for this, but whatever.

I LOVE KARLSSON.

But he is not in top 10 of actual defending. With all the points he puts up, his +/- is HORRIBLE. It is unacceptable. He needs a stay at home top D on his side.

you are so upset that no one is agreeing with your Klingberg hot take
- DDM-Coga

I think anybody who uses the "are you related to him or something" line whenever there is a hockey discussion should have the keyboard zapped

So, anyone watching Waterpolo?

A defenseman who has great offensive instincts but is reckless with blind passes in his own zone.
- jmatchett383

Ohhhh that kid who feeds the puck to Seguin, Sharp, Spezza and Benn and suddenly he's a top 5 dman

Letang, like Malkin, needs to stay healthy to stake claim to a top 5 list. That's been their biggest downfall. Can't hold it against anyone for not including those two in a best of list if they can't stay on the ice and create proof that they belong, but I'm just surprised that after the year Tanger had no one in the hotstove even mentioned his name.
- Victoro311

If Letang doesn't learn to keep his stick to himself, he might never be healthy again!
Dir-ty.