Here is my ranking:
1- Karlsson
2- Subban
3- Hedman
4- Doughty
5- Ekblad
6- Ekman-Larsson
7- Keith
8- Letang
9- Josi
10- Muzzin
- Bruiniak

I'm not a big advanced stat guy... I usually try to follow my opinion of how much a player impacts a game after watching him play a few times.

Maybe I'm not in the right convo, sorry!
- Scabeh

When I said "decline" in reference to Weber, I mean in terms of his shot suppression numbers. That doesn't mean he isn't a good defender anymore or anything, but there was a sharp drop in his ability to suppress shots starting in 2014.

I think Weber is good. I just brought him up in reference to Karlsson being singled out for his high GAs.

vic stop showing homerism. letang is not top 5 in the league as long as he keeps getting hurt
- martox

I'm not being militant. My first couple of posts were saying that I understood why he wasn't on anyone's lists because he hasn't been able to stay on the ice long enough to prove it. I understand its a hot take right now, I'm just throwing my opinion out there and saying maybe people will agree with me if he plays 70+ games next year. Saying that he was the best defenseman from December on last year isn't an outlandish claim if you look at the numbers, but its certainly too small of a sample size to get really up in arms if people don't agree with me.

Well, according to some dingle-dorks, Karlsson can't be considered, because he hasn't won a cup

- maxbart5

Tell me where you disagree.

Lewis and Jaeckel, no Subban? Really? Aside from Karlsson and maybe Doughty, there is no better defenseman?
- Bruiniak

Strong 6 on my list. Nearly had him at 5 over Ekblad. Just love what Ekblad is doing at his age. So impressive.

Subban is world class.

I think anybody who uses the "are you related to him or something" line whenever there is a hockey discussion should have the keyboard zapped
- jimbro83

get the eff out here, if something as trivial as that bothers you, you have the thinnest skin on the internet

Tell me where you disagree.
- Bruiniak

Disagreeing with you is what makes most sense usually.

hey man at least you didnt lose to the effing devils...

if it makes you feel any better though that game 1 of our series was b.s. Briere was definitely offsides. Not that I'm upset that the call went our way but I'm generally upset when a ref's mistake ends up costing a team a game
- bulet13

That call just didn't matter at all in my mind. Our defense was a dumpster fire, which directly lead to Fleury sucking as badly as he did, so our team was going nowhere. Even if we had managed to beat you guys, it only would have delayed the inevitable. We would have lost to the Devils too in spectacular fashion.

Listen, Letang is good. He made my top 10 but he's not close to Subban talent wise. If Subban was surrounded by the same talented players as Letang has in Pittsburgh, he would score 80 plus points. To score over 60 pts with such a terrible team is unreal. People will see just how good Subban really is in Nashville playing with actual talented players.
- Bruiniak

Id love to have heard your opinion on him a few months ago when he was still in a habs sweater. Boston fans were the biggest Subban haters in the league. Not to mention all the racist slurs against him after the 2014 playoffs.

How about the goals for per 60 with him on the ice, for the Sens?

Again, by my eye test alone, his ability to play defense isn't the issue, it's more his chance taking to create offense. Yes, it results in more goals against, but it also results in a ton more goals for.
- jmatchett383

Yep, the goals for go up as well. I've never said otherwise. But those who claim he can play defense, or in your case, CAN play but chooses not to, and he is effective defensively, it just simply is not true.

It is a FACT that he is not effective defensively.

get the eff out here, if something as trivial as that bothers you, you have the thinnest skin on the internet
- DDM-Coga

it's just a dumb line, I wager you use it at least once a week in a hockey discussion

"OMG, what are you related to him or something, OMG, hahahaha"

sooooooooo weak

- Bruiniak

he is kinda right about that statement. when mike sullivan took over in december letang became a whole diffrent animal and was 1.1 ppg during that period which would result with around 91 points in a whole season... and he was incredible in the defense. during that time there was noone better just as there was noone better than sidney crosby during that period. but playing really good for HALF a season does not put you in the top 5 or win you a norris.

That call just didn't matter at all in my mind. Our defense was a dumpster fire, which directly lead to Fleury sucking as badly as he did, so our team was going nowhere. Even if we had managed to beat you guys, it only would have delayed the inevitable. We would have lost to the Devils too in spectacular fashion.
- Victoro311

but man did we have such an entertaining series. remember the last game between the pens and flyers before the playoffs when the first period took like 2 hours because almost everyone was sent off for some sort of penalty? I think there was like 178 penalty minutes in the first alone and each team had like 13 guys on the bench

1. Doughty
2. Karlsson
3. Hedman
4. Keith
5. Ekblad.

Thankfully JJ didn't put in Hjalmarsson or Seabrook....
- DeflatedPucks

had it been a top 10 list he probably would have had them both in....

No one is free of a bias, that's true. Tanner doesn't have Doughty on the list, I have him at 2. Predictable, maybe yes, but the reality.

Being a Kings writer I get to see Doughty play every single night, and realize the validity of certain eye test factors, which I generally try to factor into most of my evaluations! Eye test is important. You cannot base every decisions purely on numbers, you can use them to support something but not entirely base your decision on them.

I like Muzzin, I think he's a top 10-15 defender in the league. I wouldn't say top 5 even though numbers put him there. Why? I've watched him play enough.

Numbers are there to help us support, not dictate. There are also a lot of analytics to value, some may take certain things in higher order than others. That is simply the nature of having so much information to work with along with the traditional views of things.

So just because Tanner and I are both "Numbers guys" doesn't mean we will come to the same exact decision because "The numbers say so".
- Jason_Lewis

So when I say that I have watched Rasmus Ristolainen play his whole career so far, and think he is top 2, my bias from watching him supersedes what you might see in the numbers then, correct?

I'm not singling you out BTW (or meant to) and myself am sort of a numbers guy.

But these debates always fascinate me.

No one is free of a bias, that's true. Tanner doesn't have Doughty on the list, I have him at 2. Predictable, maybe yes, but the reality.

Being a Kings writer I get to see Doughty play every single night, and realize the validity of certain eye test factors, which I generally try to factor into most of my evaluations! Eye test is important. You cannot base every decisions purely on numbers, you can use them to support something but not entirely base your decision on them.

I like Muzzin, I think he's a top 10-15 defender in the league. I wouldn't say top 5 even though numbers put him there. Why? I've watched him play enough.

Numbers are there to help us support, not dictate. There are also a lot of analytics to value, some may take certain things in higher order than others. That is simply the nature of having so much information to work with along with the traditional views of things.

So just because Tanner and I are both "Numbers guys" doesn't mean we will come to the same exact decision because "The numbers say so".
- Jason_Lewis

Good points. We also are arguing over a set of players who are so close in terms of talent and contributions that it all comes down to personal preference.

I prefer Muzzin because I think he brings a bit more offense and creativity to his game. Perhaps you feel Doughty 'controls' the game better. You watch them more so I'll cede this one to you - but again, it's like trying to say who is better between Mozart and Bach.

but man did we have such an entertaining series. remember the last game between the pens and flyers before the playoffs when the first period took like 2 hours because almost everyone was sent off for some sort of penalty? I think there was like 178 penalty minutes in the first alone and each team had like 13 guys on the bench
- bulet13

I'm so damn happy we're done with those emotional meltdowns. Our team just does not excel at that type of poop.

it's just a dumb line, I wager you use it at least once a week in a hockey discussion

"OMG, what are you related to him or something, OMG, hahahaha"

sooooooooo weak
- jimbro83

you are really jumping on such a weird thing. I dont...I just said it bc I didnt understand why you were so hot about the topic.

Now you are obsessed about one random joke line. Jesus man chill out. I could have used the line of did Lindholm hurt you, tell me what did he do to you to make him not love you.

But I guess you are a little too sensitive when it comes to Klingberg talk

you are really jumping on such a weird thing. I dont...I just said it bc I didnt understand why you were so hot about the topic.

Now you are obsessed about one random joke line. Jesus man chill out
- DDM-Coga

no, I think you say this all the time, so I am making you feel dumb about it

hey man at least you didnt lose to the effing devils...

if it makes you feel any better though that game 1 of our series was b.s. Briere was definitely offsides. Not that I'm upset that the call went our way but I'm generally upset when a ref's mistake ends up costing a team a game
- bulet13

Hey, why the hate toward a (frank)ing mickey mouse organization?

no, I think you say this all the time, so I am making you feel dumb about it
- jimbro83

Nope, I do not, so you are looking like an obsessive man "trying" way to hard to make someone look dumb,

Its ok you might get me one day

I'm so damn happy we're done with those emotional meltdowns. Our team just does not excel at that type of poop.
- Victoro311

as soon as the pens started to play disciplined and with speed I got scared. I had them winning the cup in my playoff bracket. they were far and away the best team the last few months of the season and it wasn't even close. in my mind tampa and nashville were going to be the only teams that might be able to beat them and tampa got close but in the end the result was to be expected

So when I say that I have watched Rasmus Ristolainen play his whole career so far, and think he is top 2, my bias from watching him supersedes what you might see in the numbers then, correct?

I'm not singling you out BTW (or meant to) and myself am sort of a numbers guy.

But these debates always fascinate me.
- sbroads24

Obviously there is a line of reason you have to kind of pay mind to if you are placing a universal tag on someone. Take a step back and say, okay, I love watching this guy play, does he really match up both eye test wise and numbers wise to the top level defensemen?

I find myself in the same boat with Jake Muzzin. There are those who claim he is Norris worthy. I wouldn't go that far. I think he deserves a fair bit more recognition than he gets (Or at least used to) but you do have to temper going all in on one or the other (Eye test v Numbers) in an effort to make the best informed decisions!

Side note, I need to watch some more video on Ristolainen. Buffalo has a real good one there.