Hornqvist won't be too worried.

Murray won't be lost for nothing. If Ruth's hands are tied and he can't deal MAF, Murray will be easily moved. The return might suffer however. It will be hard to leverage a great return if GM's know he has to be traded.
- madmike71

There's a couple of points on that.

The first would be the team trading for Murray will have to have another goalie they can expose. The 2nd, it may create a bidding war driving the price up due to Murray definitely leaving 1 way or another & another team may overpay to make sure they get him not Vegas (JR just has to hold out & accept Murray may go for zero to Vegas leaving other bidders to pay up or lose the opportunity to have him). A game of chicken if you like.

There is absolutely zero chance Cody Ceci and Matt Murray don't get protected. Keeping MAF and losing Murray would be pure incompetence from a management group that has not shown any. If MAF is the Penguins goalie in 17- 18 and Murray plays for any other team in the league that will destroy Rutherfords Penguins legacy. And your whole theory that a team can win a cup with average goaltending is pure BS, name one cup winner in the last 10 years that had average goaltending.

I don't hate Pouliot. I hate people overrating him and I don't want to just give him a spot like the people who wanted to bench Lovejoy for him down the stretch when it was clear Lovejoy gave us a better chance to win. Right now Pouliot is tracking as a bottom pairing offensive dynamo and not much else. He's still young and could still pull it all together but I'm so sick of hearing about his potential. He's at the age when he needs to start showing.
- Victoro311

No, people wanted to bench Lovejoy in favour of Shultz and Cole in favour of Pouliot. They subscribe to the whole LD RD thing. That would have been better for the franchise moving forward. If the team didn't already have Letang and Daley in the lineup then Pouliot would already be in the lineup because they would need him to run the PP. Last year training camp hurt Pouliot because he went into with an injury and was less than stellar and Dumoulin came in and knocked everyone's socks off.

Speaking of folks who may go unprotected in the expansion draft,

a bit about Ryan Murphy

http://cccanes.blogspot.com
- BINGO!

They surprised me, for sure. Good looking group.

There is absolutely zero chance Cody Ceci and Matt Murray don't get protected. Keeping MAF and losing Murray would be pure incompetence from a management group that has not shown any. If MAF is the Penguins goalie in 17- 18 and Murray plays for any other team in the league that will destroy Rutherfords Penguins legacy. And your whole theory that a team can win a cup with average goaltending is pure BS, name one cup winner in the last 10 years that had average goaltending.
- Dcoms

The thing people will argue is stats specifically in the playoffs & finals series. My theology on hockey is the goalie wins & loses you games/playoffs/Stanley.

Now if Quicks stats through the playoffs were taken as the sole pointer on his form last time the Kings won, pretty sure they were 'very' average at best (standard HB research here ), so can it be said the Kings won with average tending, or were there SOG that were saved that were above average saves & therefore the 'average' tending argument is discarded. Or did the Kings opponents play differently due to Quick being in goal?? The Kings won so at the end of the day the goalie did his job.

So what is an 'average' goalie anyway.

There is absolutely zero chance Cody Ceci and Matt Murray don't get protected. Keeping MAF and losing Murray would be pure incompetence from a management group that has not shown any. If MAF is the Penguins goalie in 17- 18 and Murray plays for any other team in the league that will destroy Rutherfords Penguins legacy. And your whole theory that a team can win a cup with average goaltending is pure BS, name one cup winner in the last 10 years that had average goaltending.
- Dcoms

Chicago won with Antti Niemi. in the cup run he had a sv% of .910 and a GAA of 2.63......I might even say that's below average playoff goaltending.

I'm also still not convinced that Matt Murray is anything but another "Andrew Hammond".........young goalies who come out of nowhere to have crazy hot streaks.........if he's good next year then i'll believe he's more than just an average goalie who got hot at the right time.

I know finding the creative options wasn't the plan of the exercise but as I look over what is laid out in the blog I really see some creative ways that GMJR can smash the expansion draft and come out smelling like a rose if done properly. Obviously this is all speculation but if I were in GMJR's shoes I would call up McPhee and basically say "There isn't much top 6 talent available in the draft, how about I do you a favor and give you that top 6 player by exposing Hornqvist and you do me the favor of taking him and finding your goalie somewhere else". There will be several good goalie options available in the draft so LV will still have a solid player in net and now will have a top 6 winger that is in short supply in the expansion draft.

This then allows the Pens the option of going the 4F-4D route(even though it isn't necessary knowing Hornqvist is the pick) and it allows them to retain both golatenders. At some point 1 of the goalies will need to be moved for financial reason but now GMJR will be working from a better position because the risk of losing 1 for nothing will be eliminated.
- jaydogg1974

Sort of fine but you can't have 2 starting goalies, there are not enough minutes. Either one of them who is not playing is going to want to be traded. As soon as Murray proves he's not a one hit wonder MAF should be playing for another team. For years now the Penguins have play tentative with Fleury in net, it's because they don't trust him and don't feel confident when he's in net. They love him as a person and maybe they don't realize they play that was in front of him but I'm personally tired of him. He's a great guy and a great pro but it's time everyone moves on. When he lets in a bad goal in a high stakes game he always falls apart. In he playoffs this year, the final game against Washington. After they tied he game at 3, if Fleury was in net, it's 100% for sure that he would have let in the next goal and it would have been a bad one. That's just him. He plays well until he doesn't and then it's over way before the time expires. Murray plays better when he lets a goal in and considering his age and experience vs the stakes at play winning the Stanley cup I thought he was excellent.

Honestly, I don't see DP even getting the shot to show it this season. Daley is back, Schultz returned.... the (frank) is DP even going to play at? I have zero issues with Schultz getting a chance to take DP's spot... but we now have a dieing asset that could be a top 4 Dman if he got a chance.
- Guile

Again LD vs RD. Shultz and Pouliot are not in competition with eachother. Cole is the guys Pouliot has to usurp and that's not a high hill to have to climb. He's already more talented he just has to prove it more consistent

ok "what have you done for me lately". well he kept the team afloat early in the season when a coach tried his best to pull the penguins out of the playoffs. without maf then we might not even gotten to the playoffs.
- martox

And with MAF we would have never won the Stanley cup and there is no way anyone can say Murray wouldn't have done the same thing if he was given the chance or Zatkoff even.

Chicago won with Antti Niemi. in the cup run he had a sv% of .910 and a GAA of 2.63......I might even say that's below average playoff goaltending.

I'm also still not convinced that Matt Murray is anything but another "Andrew Hammond".........young goalies who come out of nowhere to have crazy hot streaks.........if he's good next year then i'll believe he's more than just an average goalie who got hot at the right time.
- sensarmy_11

Honest question, did Hammond do what Muzza has in the AHL or equivelant (whatever he played?)? Murray has been showing his pedigree for more than 1 years worth of playoffs & a Stanley Cup. Come to think of it, did Hammond win the Stanley Cup when no one was looking?

Guess my point was more along the lines of key FA guys will likely have "agreed" to deals but will remain unsigned until after the expansion draft. Then magically we will see a flurry of signings once its over.
- Gerk

And Vegas will also be negiotiating with them. So Vegas will have a shot at them and they will know who's coming so they can then draft to fill out the roster. That goes both for and against an expansion team. The day after the cup is awarded this next season the Vegas team truly operates like all the other franchises.

Again LD vs RD. Shultz and Pouliot are not in competition with eachother. Cole is the guys Pouliot has to usurp and that's not a high hill to have to climb. He's already more talented he just has to prove it more consistent
- Dcoms

Again, since Cole plays both sides, Pouliot can conceivably beat out either or. If Schultz struggles Cole can move to the right side and Pouliot can play the left. A Pouliot-Schultz pairing would be a disaster.

Goalies are hard to judge. As a Leaf fan, we got a fan base saying "draft the goalie of the future". Which is stupid. The only time that the top rated goalie in a draft has ever become something real... was Fleury and Price. That's like once every 5 or more years.

I think the Pens will trade Fleury(I'm a Fleury fan) but Murray is proving himself and is obviously much younger. Did he not win rookie of the year in the AHL 2 seasons ago? I thought Connor Brown(leaf prospect) had it locked up because he won the rookie scoring title, but nope.

Murray is the real deal. And Fleury is the real deal. But Murray is roughly ten years younger than Fleury. So the Pens MUST hold onto Murray. Which makes Fleury tradeable.

edit: Unless PIT get's an offer on Murray they can't refuse. If it was the Leafs(and I wouldn't do this trade from our side, but the point is, it needs to be a huge overpayment for Murray)

W Nylander a 2017 2nd and a 2018 1st.(I'm a realistic Leaf fan. We can't give away our 2017 first rounder...too many rookies. We could get lucky and finish 14th to 20th, but most likely....24th-29th) EDM is 30th because...EDM.
- Njuice

Id take Marner and 2 seconds. But if you are looking to make a deal we also have 2 more potential 1Gs coming up and you guys have way too many forward prospects. Maybe a Connor Brown for Tristan Jarry trade would peak your interest? Jarrys numbers were excellent in the AHL as a rookie last year, although he did have a bit of a fall off at the end due to injury. Oh and he lost his starting job because when the AHL playoffs started he was backing up Zatkoff in the first 2 games against the Rangers. The kid that took his starting job played too well to get taken out of the lineup. He might be available for trade too since we have 4 good young prospects(we have 2 that currently don't have the upside of pedigree of the other 2). Need a goalie? We got lots.

The thing people will argue is stats specifically in the playoffs & finals series. My theology on hockey is the goalie wins & loses you games/playoffs/Stanley.

Now if Quicks stats through the playoffs were taken as the sole pointer on his form last time the Kings won, pretty sure they were 'very' average at best (standard HB research here ), so can it be said the Kings won with average tending, or were there SOG that were saved that were above average saves & therefore the 'average' tending argument is discarded. Or did the Kings opponents play differently due to Quick being in goal?? The Kings won so at the end of the day the goalie did his job.

So what is an 'average' goalie anyway.
- Aussiepenguin

I'm pretty sure Quicks save pct was in the 740s the last time the Kings won the cup and he won Conn Smythe did he not, or was that the first time? And average goalie is Eddie lack maybe

Sorry 940s, stupid small keyboard

Chicago won with Antti Niemi. in the cup run he had a sv% of .910 and a GAA of 2.63......I might even say that's below average playoff goaltending.

I'm also still not convinced that Matt Murray is anything but another "Andrew Hammond".........young goalies who come out of nowhere to have crazy hot streaks.........if he's good next year then i'll believe he's more than just an average goalie who got hot at the right time.
- sensarmy_11

Murray did not come out of nowhere. He absolutely owned the AHL in his rookie and only full season there winning every award he was eligible for except MVP. He we almost 6 full games without allowing a goal as well shattering the old shutout record. Hammond did come out of nowhere. There is no comparison between the 2.

Again, since Cole plays both sides, Pouliot can conceivably beat out either or. If Schultz struggles Cole can move to the right side and Pouliot can play the left. A Pouliot-Schultz pairing would be a disaster.
- Victoro311

Cole has never played RD, not for the Pens anyways. In fact before they signed Shultz Rutherford said one of Cole or Pouliot are going to have to learn to play their off hand. Daley plays both sides and plays better on his off side but he is the only one currently on the team. A Pouliot/ Shultz third pairing wouldn't be that bad but most likely Dumoulin would play with Shultz and Daley would play with Pouliot just to steady both pairs out.

Murray did not come out of nowhere. He absolutely owned the AHL in his rookie and only full season there winning every award he was eligible for except MVP. He we almost 6 full games without allowing a goal as well shattering the old shutout record. Hammond did come out of nowhere. There is no comparison between the 2.
- Dcoms

he certainly had more pedigree than Hammond, not denying that. maybe Hammond wasn't the best example.....simply saying that murray has a very small NHL sample size, playing behind a group of guys who seemed to all be playing the best hockey of their careers at the same time. not saying that murray will flop.....hell, he could be the next great #1 goalie......my point was that it might still be too early to start building your franchise around the guy.

also, "owning the AHL" isn't that relevant IMO......especially when guys are playing behind stacked teams (like WBS is).....hell, look at garrett sparks in Toronto, that guy "owned" the AHL too, and will probably never amount to more than an average to below average NHL backup....if that.

he certainly had more pedigree than Hammond, not denying that. maybe Hammond wasn't the best example.....simply saying that murray has a very small NHL sample size, playing behind a group of guys who seemed to all be playing the best hockey of their careers at the same time. not saying that murray will flop.....hell, he could be the next great #1 goalie......my point was that it might still be too early to start building your franchise around the guy.

also, "owning the AHL" isn't that relevant IMO......especially when guys are playing behind stacked teams (like WBS is).....hell, look at garrett sparks in Toronto, that guy "owned" the AHL too, and will probably never amount to more than an average to below average NHL backup....if that.
- sensarmy_11

WBS was stacked with who? Tim Erixon? They have a few good players but not like the Marlies do. Owning the AHL is absolutely relevant when it was the next step I his career and he exceeded expectations, then he move on to the NHL and exceeded expectations. In the OHL he carried a team that was supposed to finish last into getting a playoff birth. How old is Sparks? He's been around the AHL for 3 seasons now and is just starting to look like an NHL player. I think that is a bad comparison too. Murray has had success at every level and gotten significantly better every year. He was named to team North America in this World Cup tournament before even playing a single game at the NHL level. He really doesn't have a comparable right now. He seems to have that Crosby level drive and competitiveness.

WBS was stacked with who? Tim Erixon? They have a few good players but not like the Marlies do. Owning the AHL is absolutely relevant when it was the next step I his career and he exceeded expectations, then he move on to the NHL and exceeded expectations. In the OHL he carried a team that was supposed to finish last into getting a playoff birth. How old is Sparks? He's been around the AHL for 3 seasons now and is just starting to look like an NHL player. I think that is a bad comparison too. Murray has had success at every level and gotten significantly better every year. He was named to team North America in this World Cup tournament before even playing a single game at the NHL level. He really doesn't have a comparable right now. He seems to have that Crosby level drive and competitiveness.
- Dcoms

this is my point......he has a whopping total of 30 games of NHL experience, and the players that come to mind when talking comparisons are (frank)ing Crosby.

the reason he's been able to exceed expectations were that there were no expectations............my point is that it seems a lot of pens fans have gone from having no expectations of this kid, to having expectations that are WAAAAAYYYYY too high. you guys seem to be setting him up so that it's either vezina/Stanley cup or else he's a disappointment.

also, didn't WBS have like the 4th best record in the AHL......maybe they weren't winning with blue chip prospects, but they were still a very very good AHL team.

edit: anyways, like I said, my original post was simply making a Las Vegas roster based on the players than Ryan assumed in his blog would be unprotected in the expansion draft. murray was one of those guys.........

Cole has never played RD, not for the Pens anyways. In fact before they signed Shultz Rutherford said one of Cole or Pouliot are going to have to learn to play their off hand. Daley plays both sides and plays better on his off side but he is the only one currently on the team. A Pouliot/ Shultz third pairing wouldn't be that bad but most likely Dumoulin would play with Shultz and Daley would play with Pouliot just to steady both pairs out.
- Dcoms

Cole played on Scuderi's right side when we first traded for him and all things considered that was probably the best he's ever played as a Pittsburgh Penguin.

EDIT: He also played on DP's right when Lovejoy went down before we traded for Schultz, which was a pretty good bottom pairing while it was together.

this is my point......he has a whopping total of 30 games of NHL experience, and the players that come to mind when talking comparisons are (frank)ing Crosby.

the reason he's been able to exceed expectations were that there were no expectations............my point is that it seems a lot of pens fans have gone from having no expectations of this kid, to having expectations that are WAAAAAYYYYY too high. you guys seem to be setting him up so that it's either vezina/Stanley cup or else he's a disappointment.

also, didn't WBS have like the 4th best record in the AHL......maybe they weren't winning with blue chip prospects, but they were still a very very good AHL team.

edit: anyways, like I said, my original post was simply making a Las Vegas roster based on the players than Ryan assumed in his blog would be unprotected in the expansion draft. murray was one of those guys.........
- sensarmy_11

I didn't compare him to Crosby I said he is driven and is competitive like Crosby is not that he is as talented. We have had increasingly heightened expectations as he has become a better player. I'm not sure how we could have had high expectations of a third round pick but it's not like any of us has just been introduced to him this year. After his first year in the AHL most people associated with the Penguins and any fans that follow the teams prospects have had the expectation that he was the future franchise goalie and that is the current expctation. No one has said anything about Vezina yet, although if his current career trajectory continues its a very likely possibility. And he won the Stanley cup already so I'm not even sure what you mean by that. As far as your original post goes, you commented on my post so I don't really have an opinion on yours.
We have every right to have high hopes for Murray he's still getting better every game. Is Datsyuk only a good player because no one had any expectations for him? Hornqvist was the last player taken in his draft year. There are many more. Are they only good because they exceeded lower expectations? When Datsyuk was a rookie it was obvious that he was going to be special. Sometimes people bloom late or they are not scouted correctly, play for the wrong coach etc. There is no reason for us as fans to think Murray is not going to be a franchise goalie. All that is left to do is actually prove more doubters wrong.

Cole played on Scuderi's right side when we first traded for him and all things considered that was probably the best he's ever played as a Pittsburgh Penguin.

EDIT: He also played on DP's right when Lovejoy went down before we traded for Schultz, which was a pretty good bottom pairing while it was together.
- Victoro311

Youre right, I've already blocked Scuderi out of my mind. Scuderi was supposed to be a calming influence on Letang, remember those days? He broke his leg playing against the Leafs and it became pretty obvious how terrible he actually was. It's kind of crazy how Dought can carry him though and Despres did a pretty good job of it to. Anyways I don't want to hear the name Sucderi again, it makes a shiver run down my spine.

Pens can only lose 1 player - I'm taking it Shultz is the ex oiler now Cup winning Pens Dman? So Vegas Blueballs can't take both Shultz & Murray.

- Aussiepenguin

there is a nick schultz that plays defender for philly I believe

Youre right, I've already blocked Scuderi out of my mind. Scuderi was supposed to be a calming influence on Letang, remember those days? He broke his leg playing against the Leafs and it became pretty obvious how terrible he actually was. It's kind of crazy how Dought can carry him though and Despres did a pretty good job of it to. Anyways I don't want to hear the name Sucderi again, it makes a shiver run down my spine.
- Dcoms

scuderi is more fit for the LA system

I didn't compare him to Crosby I said he is driven and is competitive like Crosby is not that he is as talented. We have had increasingly heightened expectations as he has become a better player. I'm not sure how we could have had high expectations of a third round pick but it's not like any of us has just been introduced to him this year. After his first year in the AHL most people associated with the Penguins and any fans that follow the teams prospects have had the expectation that he was the future franchise goalie and that is the current expctation. No one has said anything about Vezina yet, although if his current career trajectory continues its a very likely possibility. And he won the Stanley cup already so I'm not even sure what you mean by that. As far as your original post goes, you commented on my post so I don't really have an opinion on yours.
- Dcoms

fair enough.....maybe he simply "came out of nowhere" to non-pens fans.

like I said, my original post was simply putting a roster together (based on the players that ryan said would be unprotected) to show that they actually wouldn't be a terrible team. murray was left unprotected in ryan's blog, so I put him on the LV roster.

it is still possible that the pens lose him though I would assume, if they're unable to move fleury (fleury holds all the power there with his NMC) they'll have no choice but to leave him unprotected will they not?