there is a nick schultz that plays defender for philly I believe
- martox

I think there is a Shultz on the Kings too and maybe the Canucks. And the Blackhawks have a Shmaltz, not that that is relevent

Youre right, I've already blocked Scuderi out of my mind. Scuderi was supposed to be a calming influence on Letang, remember those days? He broke his leg playing against the Leafs and it became pretty obvious how terrible he actually was. It's kind of crazy how Dought can carry him though and Despres did a pretty good job of it to. Anyways I don't want to hear the name Sucderi again, it makes a shiver run down my spine.
- Dcoms

fair enough.....maybe he simply "came out of nowhere" to non-pens fans.

like I said, my original post was simply putting a roster together (based on the players that ryan said would be unprotected) to show that they actually wouldn't be a terrible team. murray was left unprotected in ryan's blog, so I put him on the LV roster.

it is still possible that the pens lose him though I would assume, if they're unable to move fleury (fleury holds all the power there with his NMC) they'll have no choice but to leave him unprotected will they not?
- sensarmy_11

I think they would buy Fleury out of his contract if anything. There are a lot teams that could use MAF, yours definitely being one of them. Dallas, if we take Niemi back. Calgary if Elliot doesn't cut it and we take him back. Edmonton, Vancouver, the Islanders, Arizona, Buffalo for sure, Lehner is more bust potential and a lot of that has to do with the fact he's always on the shelf plus Bylsma thinks the world of Fleury. There are a lot of scenarios where MAF makes a team better. And if we take back one of that teams goalies then we have someone we don't need to protect we can get a pick and a prospect. I think the longer we wait the less leverage we will have though.

fair enough.....maybe he simply "came out of nowhere" to non-pens fans.

like I said, my original post was simply putting a roster together (based on the players that ryan said would be unprotected) to show that they actually wouldn't be a terrible team. murray was left unprotected in ryan's blog, so I put him on the LV roster.

it is still possible that the pens lose him though I would assume, if they're unable to move fleury (fleury holds all the power there with his NMC) they'll have no choice but to leave him unprotected will they not?
- sensarmy_11

I guatantee we would trade Murray before flat out losing him to expansion but your overall point of being in danger of losing him is true. There's such a small market for goalies any given year. Even years where the market is "big" like last offseason it's only relatively so and there's still only a handful of teams. Even though he can only block like ten teams, Flower can still be smart with his list and just block all teams with questionable goalie situatuations. 10 team NTC should be good for that.

Our goalie situation relative to expansion is quite dicey and I'm just choosing to try and ignore it until The Old Man figures it out.

I guatantee we would trade Murray before flat out losing him to expansion but your overall point of being in danger of losing him is true. There's such a small market for goalies any given year. Even years where the market is "big" like last offseason it's only relatively so and there's still only a handful of teams. Even though he can only block like ten teams, Flower can still be smart with his list and just block all teams with questionable goalie situatuations. 10 team NTC should be good for that.

Our goalie situation relative to expansion is quite dicey and I'm just choosing to try and ignore it until The Old Man figures it out.
- Victoro311

I was thinking the same with trading Murray. I don't think fleury would block many trades. He doesn't seem like the type that would stay where he's not wanted

I was thinking the same with trading Murray. I don't think fleury would block many trades. He doesn't seem like the type that would stay where he's not wanted
- dbell646

You never know. People like to say that players won't stay where they're not wanted, but look at Jumbo.

There is absolutely zero chance Cody Ceci and Matt Murray don't get protected. Keeping MAF and losing Murray would be pure incompetence from a management group that has not shown any. If MAF is the Penguins goalie in 17- 18 and Murray plays for any other team in the league that will destroy Rutherfords Penguins legacy. And your whole theory that a team can win a cup with average goaltending is pure BS, name one cup winner in the last 10 years that had average goaltending.
- Dcoms

I don't think its easy to win a cup with average goaltending.

But predicting who will give you above average/elite goaltending is difficult if not random. Look at top 5 goalies by salary - Lundqvist, bobrovsky, rinne, rask, price. Two of those guys are awful contracts. Rask is debatable. Rinne's only had one year above a .92 save percentage last 4 years. Then you have varlamov and lehtonen at 5.9 a year.

I'm a big fan of building goalie depth in the organization. But long-term high paid contracts have been hit and miss.

I guatantee we would trade Murray before flat out losing him to expansion but your overall point of being in danger of losing him is true. There's such a small market for goalies any given year. Even years where the market is "big" like last offseason it's only relatively so and there's still only a handful of teams. Even though he can only block like ten teams, Flower can still be smart with his list and just block all teams with questionable goalie situatuations. 10 team NTC should be good for that.

Our goalie situation relative to expansion is quite dicey and I'm just choosing to try and ignore it until The Old Man figures it out.
- Victoro311

Flower can block most situations that work well. Just have to trust Rutherford to figure the situation out. I'm not opposed to flipping Murray for an elite young wing if we have to. Prefer trading Fleury. I do think fleury is a top 10-15 goalie so that opens up a lot of possibilities past the 10 teams in need of goaltending. We can flip him to someone and take their 1G that we can expose in the expansion draft. Teams like Ottawa would be interested in an Anderson/fleury swapped even though they are not that bad at goalie. Theres probably 6-10 teams in need of an upgrade. And another 10 teams that fleury would improve their situation.

I think they would buy Fleury out of his contract if anything. There are a lot teams that could use MAF, yours definitely being one of them. Dallas, if we take Niemi back. Calgary if Elliot doesn't cut it and we take him back. Edmonton, Vancouver, the Islanders, Arizona, Buffalo for sure, Lehner is more bust potential and a lot of that has to do with the fact he's always on the shelf plus Bylsma thinks the world of Fleury. There are a lot of scenarios where MAF makes a team better. And if we take back one of that teams goalies then we have someone we don't need to protect we can get a pick and a prospect. I think the longer we wait the less leverage we will have though.
- Dcoms

A buy out is worst case scenario. 2nd worst scenario is having to retain. Fleury at $2 million retained is cheap as (frank) for the goalie position. And cheaper to us than a buyout. Best case someone ends up needing a goalie and gives us a decent package.

I don't think its easy to win a cup with average goaltending.

But predicting who will give you above average/elite goaltending is difficult if not random. Look at top 5 goalies by salary - Lundqvist, bobrovsky, rinne, rask, price. Two of those guys are awful contracts. Rask is debatable. Rinne's only had one year above a .92 save percentage last 4 years. Then you have varlamov and lehtonen at 5.9 a year.

I'm a big fan of building goalie depth in the organization. But long-term high paid contracts have been hit and miss.
- sditulli

Yeah that's why I'm nervous about trading Fleury. Why would a team trade any sort of significant asset for a goalie (granted top 10 probably) who's being paid 6 mil, when goalies like Eliot, Greiss, Jones, Mason, and Neuvrith are perfectly capable of backstopping a contender for much cheaper and the said expensive goalie could on a flip of a switch become not worth his contract like Bobrovsky, Rinne, and Varlamov have shown can happen (Lehtonen was never worth what he got). Factor in that goalies come out of nowhere in the pipeline all the time like Quick, Berube, Talbot, Darling, and Picard that can give you acceptable goaltending as well.

The chances of your goalie pecking order being as abysmal as Calgary last year is pretty slim, and the 6 mil tied up in a more proven goalie might not be worth the moderate aliviation of risk for a lot of teams. Especially now that Fleury had two concussions in the past year, a team might be scared that they're trading for a 6 mil lemon and have the next Bobrovsky or Rinne on their hands.

Yeah that's why I'm nervous about trading Fleury. Why would a team trade any sort of significant asset for a goalie (granted top 10 probably) who's being paid 6 mil, when goalies like Eliot, Greiss, Jones, Mason, and Neuvrith are perfectly capable of backstopping a contender for much cheaper and the said expensive goalie could on a flip of a switch become not worth his contract like Bobrovsky, Rinne, and Varlamov have shown can happen (Lehtonen was never worth what he got). Factor in that goalies come out of nowhere in the pipeline all the time like Quick, Berube, Talbot, Darling, and Picard that can give you acceptable goaltending as well.

The chances of your goalie pecking order being as abysmal as Calgary last year is pretty slim, and the 6 mil tied up in a more proven goalie might not be worth the moderate aliviation of risk for a lot of teams. Especially now that Fleury had two concussions in the past year, a team might be scared that they're trading for a 6 mil lemon and have the next Bobrovsky or Rinne on their hands.
- Victoro311

there is only 1 thing you need to remember when it comes to hockey trades. alot of people are stupid

I don't think its easy to win a cup with average goaltending.

But predicting who will give you above average/elite goaltending is difficult if not random. Look at top 5 goalies by salary - Lundqvist, bobrovsky, rinne, rask, price. Two of those guys are awful contracts. Rask is debatable. Rinne's only had one year above a .92 save percentage last 4 years. Then you have varlamov and lehtonen at 5.9 a year.

I'm a big fan of building goalie depth in the organization. But long-term high paid contracts have been hit and miss.
- sditulli

Rinne went from a three time Vezina finalist to a guy whose team carried him this past season.

Rinne went from a three time Vezina finalist to a guy whose team carried him this past season.
- DeflatedPucks

I know, that was weird. Was he hurt?

A buy out is worst case scenario. 2nd worst scenario is having to retain. Fleury at $2 million retained is cheap as (frank) for the goalie position. And cheaper to us than a buyout. Best case someone ends up needing a goalie and gives us a decent package.
- sditulli

I don't remember the Penguins buying out a contract. Fluery will be much more accommodating to a trade if Murray proves he can be a number one goalie. And I think Murray will show that early in the year.

I know, that was weird. Was he hurt?
- powerhouse

He's been on and off again hurt for a while now. He hasn't been that good in a while. Rinne is also kind of old so it's understandable.

there is only 1 thing you need to remember when it comes to hockey trades. alot of people are stupid
- martox

This is so incredibly true

I know, that was weird. Was he hurt?
- powerhouse

Nashville opened their offence under Laviolette. A number of good goalies went from all-star to average when teams try to open up after playing a lock down system. Nicklas Backstrom (Minnesota) comes to mind.

Yeah that's why I'm nervous about trading Fleury. Why would a team trade any sort of significant asset for a goalie (granted top 10 probably) who's being paid 6 mil, when goalies like Eliot, Greiss, Jones, Mason, and Neuvrith are perfectly capable of backstopping a contender for much cheaper and the said expensive goalie could on a flip of a switch become not worth his contract like Bobrovsky, Rinne, and Varlamov have shown can happen (Lehtonen was never worth what he got). Factor in that goalies come out of nowhere in the pipeline all the time like Quick, Berube, Talbot, Darling, and Picard that can give you acceptable goaltending as well.

The chances of your goalie pecking order being as abysmal as Calgary last year is pretty slim, and the 6 mil tied up in a more proven goalie might not be worth the moderate aliviation of risk for a lot of teams. Especially now that Fleury had two concussions in the past year, a team might be scared that they're trading for a 6 mil lemon and have the next Bobrovsky or Rinne on their hands.
- Victoro311

Fleury only has 2 years left on his contract. So that's a pretty good risks/reward for a team. No risks he sucks and you have 4-5 years of term remaining. If you trade for him and he blows you can buy him out and its a minimal problem.

Flower can block most situations that work well. Just have to trust Rutherford to figure the situation out. I'm not opposed to flipping Murray for an elite young wing if we have to. Prefer trading Fleury. I do think fleury is a top 10-15 goalie so that opens up a lot of possibilities past the 10 teams in need of goaltending. We can flip him to someone and take their 1G that we can expose in the expansion draft. Teams like Ottawa would be interested in an Anderson/fleury swapped even though they are not that bad at goalie. Theres probably 6-10 teams in need of an upgrade. And another 10 teams that fleury would improve their situation.
- sditulli

Does anyone know for sure what MAF's modified-NMC allows for? According to capfriendly(citing the Post-Gazzette as the source) Fleury supplies a list of 18 teams he can be traded to, 18 teams is a lot of options to find a suitable trade partner.

Also I think too often people are only focusing on Murray and forget that the Pens have 2 other potential high-pedigree goalies in the system. Obviously if Murray proves capable of duplicating his early success over the long haul the preference would be to trade MAf and turn the franchise over to Murray but if the organization is confident that Jarry or Gustavsson will be as good or better than Murray in a few years then moving Murray while his value is sky high isn't the worst option in the world. As I think Dcoms suggested, if a team like Toronto is willing to do something like Marner + 2-2nds then I think you have to seriously consider moving Murray and hoping that 1 of the other young goalies with high end potential goalies pans out in the next 3-4 years.

I don't think its easy to win a cup with average goaltending.

But predicting who will give you above average/elite goaltending is difficult if not random. Look at top 5 goalies by salary - Lundqvist, bobrovsky, rinne, rask, price. Two of those guys are awful contracts. Rask is debatable. Rinne's only had one year above a .92 save percentage last 4 years. Then you have varlamov and lehtonen at 5.9 a year.

I'm a big fan of building goalie depth in the organization. But long-term high paid contracts have been hit and miss.
- sditulli

Sure but at the end of the day if I had to pay and keep one its Murray every time. MAF played well last year but he's so flakey I'm just done with him. Maybe Nashville would take him and retain a chunk of Rinne's salary coming back. And they send us Kamenev or Dougherty? That would be cool, plus a second or third between 48-70.

A buy out is worst case scenario. 2nd worst scenario is having to retain. Fleury at $2 million retained is cheap as (frank) for the goalie position. And cheaper to us than a buyout. Best case someone ends up needing a goalie and gives us a decent package.
- sditulli

Losing Murray is worst case scenario but a buyout is a close second

Yeah that's why I'm nervous about trading Fleury. Why would a team trade any sort of significant asset for a goalie (granted top 10 probably) who's being paid 6 mil, when goalies like Eliot, Greiss, Jones, Mason, and Neuvrith are perfectly capable of backstopping a contender for much cheaper and the said expensive goalie could on a flip of a switch become not worth his contract like Bobrovsky, Rinne, and Varlamov have shown can happen (Lehtonen was never worth what he got). Factor in that goalies come out of nowhere in the pipeline all the time like Quick, Berube, Talbot, Darling, and Picard that can give you acceptable goaltending as well.

The chances of your goalie pecking order being as abysmal as Calgary last year is pretty slim, and the 6 mil tied up in a more proven goalie might not be worth the moderate aliviation of risk for a lot of teams. Especially now that Fleury had two concussions in the past year, a team might be scared that they're trading for a 6 mil lemon and have the next Bobrovsky or Rinne on their hands.
- Victoro311

Jones is 3 million but his next contract will be much more and Mason is 4.1 and is wildly unpredictable and fragile as hell. There is no guarantee Elliot succeeds in Calgary and he's getting older.

Rinne went from a three time Vezina finalist to a guy whose team carried him this past season.
- DeflatedPucks

He was pretty injury ravaged though and he's getting older. He might be playing out his last contract.

Nashville opened their offence under Laviolette. A number of good goalies went from all-star to average when teams try to open up after playing a lock down system. Nicklas Backstrom (Minnesota) comes to mind.
- Thunderbolt

Another guy who is old, fragile and always injured and on a terrible contract, I think his contract is worse that Lets-em-in in Dallas.

All Time Penguins Team

Robitialle Lemieux Jagr
Hossa Crosby Recchi
Kovalev Malkin Tocchet
Stevens Francis Mullen

Coffey Gonchar
Letang Murphy
Zubov Samuelsson

Fleury
Barrasso

Honorable Mentions: Trottier, Staal, Naslund, Kessel,

Can any other team sport anything close to that? It's crazy how many elite players have come through town over the years