For sure, he was great. And once again it goes to show that you need a #1 D to win the cup.
- CanuckDon

I thought the post you supported was arguing the perceived recipe for success didn't make a lick of sense for the Pens which justifies the Canucks decision to push for the playoffs.

Now you are supporting the 'recipe for success' argument by saying you need a #1 D to win the cup, when in fact that Canucks don't really have a #1 D.

So what is it? Should the Canucks push for the playoffs just because any team could win or should they wait until they have the right recipe for success (i.e., a #1 D as you say is necessary) before leveraging future assets to stay competitive?

For sure, he was great. And once again it goes to show that you need a #1 D to win the cup.
- CanuckDon

Absolutely. Only a handful in the league.

I hope Guds shows up and has a terrific year. All these guys saying the trade was horrible can slink back to the rock they came from.


- Garnie

Lets hope that's the case. The analytics guys will always defend their position, even if he does have a great year.

Hard to tell with college players but few are able to jump directly in. Some certainly have very high opinion of him though.
- belcherbd

He is more offensive minded than Hutton.

I thought the post you supported was arguing the perceived recipe for success didn't make a lick of sense for the Pens which justifies the Canucks decision to push for the playoffs.

Now you are supporting the 'recipe for success' argument by saying you need a #1 D to win the cup, when in fact that Canucks don't really have a #1 D.

So what is it? Should the Canucks push for the playoffs just because any team could win or should they wait until they have the right recipe for success (i.e., a #1 D as you say is necessary) before leveraging future assets to stay competitive?
- RonPielep

No we don't have a #1 D in the league but the goal should always be playoffs. Winning should be the goal always and its a long season. That's why youth needs Veterans. Not just for mentoring but keeping their eye on the goal during a long season to not lose focus. Look at the Oilers they have had numerous strong starts and have failed every time down the stretch because they lose the focus and slowly start losing game after game because they start making lazy junior plays.

I thought the post you supported was arguing the perceived recipe for success didn't make a lick of sense for the Pens which justifies the Canucks decision to push for the playoffs.

Now you are supporting the 'recipe for success' argument by saying you need a #1 D to win the cup, when in fact that Canucks don't really have a #1 D.

So what is it? Should the Canucks push for the playoffs just because any team could win or should they wait until they have the right recipe for success (i.e., a #1 D as you say is necessary) before leveraging future assets to stay competitive?
- RonPielep

It was a long post, I skimmed it so I'm not sure if has was saying to push for the playoffs? No, I don't think we have any chance of winning the cup. But every team should be trying to make the playoffs or they should (frank) off and try ballet

I hope Guds shows up and has a terrific year. All these guys saying the trade was horrible can slink back to the rock they came from.


- Garnie

I think the analytics folks like Tanner like to jump the gun because they think their analytics are the written word of god and that those types of people would be better off withholding judgement until the dust settles. This results from having a very shallow understanding of statistics.

I mean, everyone can go ahead and share their predictions, but to act like JB is the worst GM in the league before even seeing how his moves turn out is a little bit arrogant. If the Nucks are in the bottom 5 of the standings midway through the season and Guds can't hold down a 2nd pairing role then by all means, judge away.

Lets hope that's the case. The analytics guys will always defend their position, even if he does have a great year.
- VanHockeyGuy

I thought he was Florida's best D in the playoffs. I was drooling for a chance at him then. Never did I think we would get him though. JB gets a big high 5 from me for that one.

I can't seem to quote you Brookslight, but the fun little story about how the Pens are somehow a surprise Cup champ team was amusing, to say the least. Any time you have two of the leagues top 10 center's on your team and one of them is the best player in Hockey--> you should not be surprised!

They added a guy who has got north of 80 points multiple times... come on!

Anyway, even if I did buy that. In what world does that somehow allow for the Canucks to somehow win?! We dont have 1 of the top 10 centers in the league let alone two. we don't have one player in his prime that can score north of 80 let alone 3. I'll admit Eriksson is a longshot to hit over 80 given that he's going to play a lot.

Even all of that aside, the Western conference is simply a different animal. A weaker team can come out of the east, but look at the teams that have come out of the West the last 5 years. SanJose, Chicago and LA. All very hard teams to play, not to mention now there is Dallas in the mix, Nashville is much improved.
- neem55

Sometimes if you cant quote - log out and then back in - usually works for me.

anyways, it certainly wasn't meant as a "fun little story" - and I'm not asking you to buy into anything, cus I'm not selling, I'm stating factual aspects of the team that just won the cup....I'm interested that you never touched on the examples of drafting (or lack of), the rookies/younger players that played such a huge role, the extremely underwhelming B-unit of defenders, the unknown goalie, the 2nd line castaways that magically became a dominate force, the mid season coaching change. Yet somehow Sid, Gino, Kessel and Letang are the only reasons of the championship - so my "fun little story" examples had little or nothing to do with any aspect of surprise?? no? Are you surprised that Sully landed the plane in the Hudson?? No?? not a big deal eh?

if the west is so strong, why didn't the Sharks kill them?? I sure as hell thought they were going to. I easily would've put money on St.Louis, Dallas, Chicago, Anahiem or even Nashville beating them too but SURPRISE, they didn't.

btw my "little story" had no coloration with the Canucks or their chances of a cup, so lets no get hung up on that side argument.

It was a long post, I skimmed it so I'm not sure if has was saying to push for the playoffs? No, I don't think we have any chance of winning the cup. But every team should be trying to make the playoffs or they should (frank) off and try ballet
- CanuckDon

Again, I am talking about December. Why do you keep bringing up the summer like a broken record?
- CanuckDon

Sure , people lost faith in the team when they were at their lowest but at the end of the regular season and before the season started they were viewed as contenders.

It's like suggesting Canucks had a front runner for rookie of the year aft a hot week of McCann's play.

First of all, the Penguins DID NOT limp into the playoffs in 8th spot, they had a slow start from a new rookie head coach but they still finished with 104 points, second most in the entire Eastern Conference.

Secondly, they have three super-stars in the prime of their careers with as much personal hardware as you'll find on pretty much any one team. Their depth was tremendous as well.

Comparing anyone team, let alone the Canucks, to them as a "limp-in" candidate is apples and oranges.
- LeftCoaster

I Didn't say they limped into the playoffs - said nobody would've thought they would be a cup winner/contender in December.

Depth was not tremendous

I Didn't compare them at any point to the Canucks

read carefully

Again, I am talking about December. Why do you keep bringing up the summer like a broken record?
- CanuckDon

Ok lets talk about May/april then, when they finished 2nd in the east. your only talking about one point of the year too, I don't get why you think yours is more pertinent somehow

Sometimes if you cant quote - log out and then back in - usually works for me.

anyways, it certainly wasn't meant as a "fun little story" - and I'm not asking you to buy into anything, cus I'm not selling, I'm stating factual aspects of the team that just won the cup....I'm interested that you never touched on the examples of drafting (or lack of), the rookies/younger players that played such a huge role, the extremely underwhelming B-unit of defenders, the unknown goalie, the 2nd line castaways that magically became a dominate force, the mid season coaching change. Yet somehow Sid, Gino, Kessel and Letang are the only reasons of the championship - so my "fun little story" examples had little or nothing to do with any aspect of surprise?? no? Are you surprised that Sully landed the plane in the Hudson?? No?? not a big deal eh?

if the west is so strong, why didn't the Sharks kill them?? I sure as hell thought they were going to. I easily would've put money on St.Louis, Dallas, Chicago, Anahiem or even Nashville beating them too but SURPRISE, they didn't.

btw my "little story" had no coloration with the Canucks or their chances of a cup, so lets no get hung up on that side argument.
- Brooks_Light

First of all, I mentioned the west is different. The Sharks had to beat three very good/difficult teams, pittsburgh had to beat one in Washington. They did draft Murray, you know that right? Did you also know he's been a dominant prospeect for some time? they also drafted Maata(who played a lot of minutes) and Letang, not to mention Sid and Malkin (both top5 picks, which I have been waving the flag for on this forum for some time). They also traded picks and prospects for players like Kessel. Did Bonino play way above his pay grade? yes, for sure. It helps when you have a top-10 winger in the league. But they weren't some fluke. The more experienced team won, that was the Sharks first final.

Your story had every correlation to the canucks, it was based on the inference 'make it to the playoffs and anything can happen" which is bullpoop. its not anything can happen. It's really competitive, there hasn't been a team truly upset since LA's first cup, and realistically that doesn't even look like an upset now that we've seen how good some of those players are. If the Canucks make the playoffs it will be very similar to the last time: Likely a first round exit, because they don't have the talent.

Make it to the playoffs with a one or two top-5 picks in their prime and anything can happen. Make it to the playoffs with a top 10 center and top-10 d-man, anything can happen.

It was a long post, I skimmed it so I'm not sure if has was saying to push for the playoffs? No, I don't think we have any chance of winning the cup. But every team should be trying to make the playoffs or they should (frank) off and try ballet
- CanuckDon

I believe that the point of the post was supporting management decisions to stay competitive and push for the playoffs but honestly I skimmed it too.

I tend to agree with the bold part of your post, but I would revise it to say that every team should be trying to build a long term sustainable contender and every team should strive for improvement year to year. It is short-sighted to be going all-in so to speak for the playoffs in one particular year if you don't think you will have a reasonable chance of holding your own.

This is where the fragile balance between stockpiling assets while maintaining a competitive environment (something the Oilers failed miserably at) vs leveraging future assets to push for immediate success comes in. It is a little more complicated than simply trying to make the playoffs in each particular year if a quarter of the way through the season that is looking very unlikely.

They had Crosby and Malkin in their prime.

We have Sedins on their swan song.

I would say that's the biggest difference.

No we don't have a #1 D in the league but the goal should always be playoffs. Winning should be the goal always and its a long season. That's why youth needs Veterans. Not just for mentoring but keeping their eye on the goal during a long season to not lose focus. Look at the Oilers they have had numerous strong starts and have failed every time down the stretch because they lose the focus and slowly start losing game after game because they start making lazy junior plays.
- thundachunk

The Oiler's aren't the model to follow, no doubt, but I think their issues are a little deeper than that, and I would hesitate to say the have had numerous strong starts when they have usually been eliminated from the playoffs before January.

I think a team like the Nucks should prepare in the offseason to be competitive, as should every team, but I don't think a team who finishes in the bottom 10 of the league should be selling significant future assets before the start of the season to push for the playoffs. That's a recipe for long term failure.

If they build a framework for being competitive without leveraging futures then they can keep their options open and see where they stand come mid-season. If they are last place come January I don't think it would be wise to use your draft picks for immediate help to make a push for the playoffs.

To put it this way, the goal should be playoffs yes, but not in one particular year, the goal should be building sustainable playoff success for every year. This requires more foresight and savvy asset management than simply pushing for the playoffs this year.

Also, in a one game series, i think we can beat anybody.

In a 7 games series, my $ won't be on this team for quite some ... against anybody.

I'm a fan. Always will be. Just being realistic until we stack up a few more high draft picks and let them mature for a number of years.

We were competetive really for an impressive number of years dating back to West Coast Express. That transitioned into Sedins, Kesler and we were near the top if not the cream of the crop during the regular season for a number of years. Just didn't get it done. Only one team does each year. Chicago had our number and not sure anyone else could have stopped us that kesler, sundin, demitra year.

I Didn't say they limped into the playoffs - said nobody would've thought they would be a cup winner/contender in December.

Depth was not tremendous

I Didn't compare them at any point to the Canucks

read carefully
- Brooks_Light

Were you not talking about how the team was assembled?

I thought he was Florida's best D in the playoffs. I was drooling for a chance at him then. Never did I think we would get him though. JB gets a big high 5 from me for that one.
- thundachunk

Hopefully he plays a big part of fixing our crappy D. I also am okay with those Edler rumors out there.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/chicago-blackhawks-the-early-favorite-for-2016-stanley-cup-162952211.html;_ylt=A0SO8wLRBr5XVBoA1q1x.9w4;_ylu=X3oDMTEzcWJuYTF0BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxMAR2dGlkA0IyNjE5XzEEc2VjA3Ny

Also, they we're not top 5 in the summer
- CanuckDon

The Pens moved up as the summer went along. That article was written long before the Kessel trade or a bunch of their great value signings. When the Kessel trade happened on July 1st, they skyrocketed in the preseason rankings.

I am not arguing that they were a mess in late November, but as soon as the coaching change happened there was no denying they looked entirely different. And frankly, even in late November, people were shocked at how poorly they were doing.

Unfortunately, this time, this is not a good comparison. The Canucks, if they had made the playoffs last year, would have been annihilated by the majority of the other 15 playoff teams. If you would like some reference, just look at the three preceding years of playoff results.

No crappy, fly under the radar team has made the Final since the Oilers of '06.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/chicago-blackhawks-the-early-favorite-for-2016-stanley-cup-162952211.html;_ylt=A0SO8wLRBr5XVBoA1q1x.9w4;_ylu=X3oDMTEzcWJuYTF0BGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxMAR2dGlkA0IyNjE5XzEEc2VjA3Ny

Also, they we're not top 5 in the summer
- CanuckDon

After they acquired Kessel they were.

Hopefully he plays a big part of fixing our crappy D. I also am okay with those Edler rumors out there.
- VanHockeyGuy

New ones? havent heard/seen anything, whats the latest?

I follow the Penguins very closely as I have always been a fan. It was more than a few people. Many "experts" thought they would miss the playoffs after their terrible start. I also don't think Brooks was comparing the Penguins to the Canucks in any way. He was simply pointing out that non-cup favourites surprise in the playoffs every year. I highly doubt anyone on here predicted the penguins to win the cup
- CanuckDon

bang on, in a nutshell, thats all i was saying