Afternoon all, thank you Carol for another good blog.

I would like to say that I was impressed with the discussion in yesterdays blog, it was really good to see varying points of view on different subjects. Our "out of team" posters having input in a constructive manner, and holy sh!t there was no name calling or derogatory innuendos being throw around.

Two hopefully we can keep it going
- Makita

If we do keep Edler I hope he takes a step back and concentrates on his point production. The last couple of years he has had to do it all. If Tryamkin and Gudbrandson can take care of the shut down part of the game and let Edler concentrate on attacking.

More back door plays by Tanev and Edler to chip in on scoring. It would also be easier on his body/back to not be relied on for the big hits.

First of all, I mentioned the west is different. The Sharks had to beat three very good/difficult teams, pittsburgh had to beat one in Washington. They did draft Murray, you know that right? Did you also know he's been a dominant prospeect for some time? they also drafted Maata(who played a lot of minutes) and Letang, not to mention Sid and Malkin (both top5 picks, which I have been waving the flag for on this forum for some time). They also traded picks and prospects for players like Kessel. Did Bonino play way above his pay grade? yes, for sure. It helps when you have a top-10 winger in the league. But they weren't some fluke. The more experienced team won, that was the Sharks first final.

Your story had every correlation to the canucks, it was based on the inference 'make it to the playoffs and anything can happen" which is bullpoop. its not anything can happen. It's really competitive, there hasn't been a team truly upset since LA's first cup, and realistically that doesn't even look like an upset now that we've seen how good some of those players are. If the Canucks make the playoffs it will be very similar to the last time: Likely a first round exit, because they don't have the talent.

Make it to the playoffs with a one or two top-5 picks in their prime and anything can happen. Make it to the playoffs with a top 10 center and top-10 d-man, anything can happen.
- neem55

So the Rangers and The Lightning are easy teams to beat? Cus I actually disagree with that but you saying that the Sharks had to beat 3 stronger teams only strengthens my argument that it was even more surprising the the Pens beat them.

I'm well aware of who drafted Murray and I'm also pretty sure that if i asked you - hey man do you think a guy who has barely played a year and a half of AHL hockey is ready to jump in and convincingly lead a team to the cup final, you're gonna tell me unequivocally, YES???? I'm not convinced, thats a tall order no matter how highly touted the prospect is. He played 13 games EVER before the playoffs started! thats it. Honestly he looked like a 10 year vet in some of those games, it was surprising.

I agree with you from the start that Sid, Gino, Letang and Kessel are monsters, its the supporting role of misfits that surrounded them that blew me away, especially the D, and the rookies/prospects. Why won't you acknowledge that?

So the Rangers and The Lightning are easy teams to beat? Cus I actually disagree with that but you saying that the Sharks had to beat 3 stronger teams only strengthens my argument that it was even more surprising the the Pens beat them.

I'm well aware of who drafted Murray and I'm also pretty sure that if i asked you - hey man do you think a guy who has barely played a year and a half of AHL hockey is ready to jump in and convincingly lead a team to the cup final, you're gonna tell me unequivocally, YES???? I'm not convinced, thats a tall order no matter how highly touted the prospect is. He played 13 games EVER before the playoffs started! thats it. Honestly he looked like a 10 year vet in some of those games, it was surprising.

I agree with you from the start that Sid, Gino, Letang and Kessel are monsters, its the supporting role of misfits that surrounded them that blew me away, especially the D, and the rookies/prospects. Why won't you acknowledge that?
- Brooks_Light

The lightning without their best player, yes. The rangers are an overrated team for me, as again the east is just a bit weaker than the west and theyre defence is past their prime. I think guys like Rust and Hagelin/Bonino (but again to me this has more to do with Kessel), lovejoy all overplayed. I just think that's not really what helped the group win the most. What helped the group win most was Malkin, Kessel, crosby and Letang having conn smythe quality playoff performances. I really just think the rest of the narrative is overhyped. Their best players out performed, bottom line. I personally didn't think Murray played that well, rather well enough for them to win. But outside of that top 4 IMO are Maata, Rust and Murray, all players Pitt drafted.

bang on, in a nutshell, thats all i was saying
- Brooks_Light

Fair enough but you can see why people were confused.

I'm not advocating that we should be wishing to scrape into the playoffs and hope to win the cup, no one is, but dude it can totally happen - it just did!!

It sounds like you are saying the Pens scraped into the playoffs and then went on to win. You were responding to Bloated not understanding why people think the Canucks can squeak into the playoffs and win.

Everybody's going on and on about what it takes to win a cup and be successful but the Pens just proved that we all don't know what the F*& we're talking about. The recipe didn't make a lick of sense.

The recipe was to acquire lots of forward depth and add one of the best scorers in the league. While the team struggled early on the recipe did make sense when team was formed and proved it by winning it all.

Was their comeback surprising? Yes but more surprising was the fact that the team struggled so mightily to begin with.

Did they have some young players step up in Murray, Dumoulin, Rust and Sheary? Certainly but I don't think those guys were the difference makers in that team's dominance. The second half of the season they showed they were arguably the best in the league without most those player having a big role.

Was Bonino/Kessel/Hagelin a dominant force that no one expected ? Yes, but they were also were also the 3rd line and Pit had the opportunity to play 3 lines with legit top line talent as part of it.

I believe that the point of the post was supporting management decisions to stay competitive and push for the playoffs but honestly I skimmed it too.

I tend to agree with the bold part of your post, but I would revise it to say that every team should be trying to build a long term sustainable contender and every team should strive for improvement year to year. It is short-sighted to be going all-in so to speak for the playoffs in one particular year if you don't think you will have a reasonable chance of holding your own.

This is where the fragile balance between stockpiling assets while maintaining a competitive environment (something the Oilers failed miserably at) vs leveraging future assets to push for immediate success comes in. It is a little more complicated than simply trying to make the playoffs in each particular year if a quarter of the way through the season that is looking very unlikely.
- RonPielep

This hasn't happened and won't. They are trying to be competitive (the fans deserve this) while accumulating high end prospects. We are NOT mortgaging our future.

Does Pedan have a real shot at being a regular NHL'er?

Always kinda like him a little bit as an Isles prospect and was a tiny bit surprised when they traded him for mid-round pick for, seemingly, no reason.

The Pens moved up as the summer went along. That article was written long before the Kessel trade or a bunch of their great value signings. When the Kessel trade happened on July 1st, they skyrocketed in the preseason rankings.

I am not arguing that they were a mess in late November, but as soon as the coaching change happened there was no denying they looked entirely different. And frankly, even in late November, people were shocked at how poorly they were doing.

Unfortunately, this time, this is not a good comparison. The Canucks, if they had made the playoffs last year, would have been annihilated by the majority of the other 15 playoff teams. If you would like some reference, just look at the three preceding years of playoff results.

No crappy, fly under the radar team has made the Final since the Oilers of '06.
- Dollars2Donuts

I don't think anybody is drawing a comparison between the Penguins and Canucks. You are missing the point.

So the Rangers and The Lightning are easy teams to beat? Cus I actually disagree with that but you saying that the Sharks had to beat 3 stronger teams only strengthens my argument that it was even more surprising the the Pens beat them.

I'm well aware of who drafted Murray and I'm also pretty sure that if i asked you - hey man do you think a guy who has barely played a year and a half of AHL hockey is ready to jump in and convincingly lead a team to the cup final, you're gonna tell me unequivocally, YES???? I'm not convinced, thats a tall order no matter how highly touted the prospect is. He played 13 games EVER before the playoffs started! thats it. Honestly he looked like a 10 year vet in some of those games, it was surprising.

I agree with you from the start that Sid, Gino, Letang and Kessel are monsters, its the supporting role of misfits that surrounded them that blew me away, especially the D, and the rookies/prospects. Why won't you acknowledge that?
- Brooks_Light

There are many posters with extraordinary hindsight on here...The Penguins have a lot of skill but I personally don't know anyone that pegged them as a legit contender. There cup run illustrates that a lot of things need to go right in order to win 4 series. I don't believe anyone when they say they thought Pitts could win with that defense. I am still shocked.

Does Pedan have a real shot at being a regular NHL'er?

Always kinda like him a little bit as an Isles prospect and was a tiny bit surprised when they traded him for mid-round pick for, seemingly, no reason.
- eichiefs9

He had one game he looked like a star and a couple he looked out of place.

The point is he has the tools to be a regular . He needs to get his head in the game . Play every shift like he is trying to make the team. He needs to think the game more also. He needs to be proactive and less reactive.

If he could play like he played that one game he would be a fantastic addition.

Does Pedan have a real shot at being a regular NHL'er?

Always kinda like him a little bit as an Isles prospect and was a tiny bit surprised when they traded him for mid-round pick for, seemingly, no reason.
- eichiefs9

I think he is still a raw talent guy, he IMO hasn't improved his game as much as I would of hoped to when he was first acquired by us. He isn't too old to completely lose hope on but I think he needs to show improvement this year.

He also has had a lot of concussions so far in his career and I know that the Utica staff had told him to avoid fights after his last one. His toughness and fighting ability is also one of the main reasons he could get a spot in the NHL so it's a bit of a catch 22.

Lets hope that's the case. The analytics guys will always defend their position, even if he does have a great year.
- VanHockeyGuy

Ya probably...I think he'll be just fine, the #s guys ( most ) don't seem to have any common sense...get stuck on a couple #s and never let go.

Does Pedan have a real shot at being a regular NHL'er?

Always kinda like him a little bit as an Isles prospect and was a tiny bit surprised when they traded him for mid-round pick for, seemingly, no reason.
- eichiefs9

He does but I am not convinced he "thinks" the game well enough to be more than a 6th 7th d man. He won both our fastest skater and hardest shot awards last year at the skills comp. Pretty remarkable for a 6'5 220 lb dman. Great tool set but he needs to prove he can be consistent and make better decisions on the ice.

There are many posters with extraordinary hindsight on here...The Penguins have a lot of skill but I personally don't know anyone that pegged them as a legit contender. There cup run illustrates that a lot of things need to go right in order to win 4 series. I don't believe anyone when they say they thought Pitts could win with that defense. I am still shocked.
- CanuckDon

Are you still talking about in December or at the beginning and/or end of the regular season?

I did quite well stacking my playoff pool with Pens. Although to be fair it had more to do with Crosby being available at 4th....

They might not of been the front runner but I think they were definitely a contender.

And they finished second in the east. I get maybe it surprised you or a few others. But to paint them as some kind of underdogs when they were cup top-5 favorites before the year and finished 4th overall in the regular season is just too far.
- neem55

Around xmas time they were horrid...then they finally moved Kessel who to me seemed intimidated to be playing with Sid or Malkin and was rushing passes etc. Then they took off wwith 3 good scoring lines. I think they got lucky with the new goalies getting hot too, I don't think Fleury would have got them the cup. IMO

There are many posters with extraordinary hindsight on here...The Penguins have a lot of skill but I personally don't know anyone that pegged them as a legit contender. There cup run illustrates that a lot of things need to go right in order to win 4 series. I don't believe anyone when they say they thought Pitts could win with that defense. I am still shocked.
- CanuckDon

I don't think anyone had them as favorites, but they were a top-5 team. I think everyone had washington coming out of the East/the series against Pitts.
I was more surprised that theyre big boys didn't rise to the occasion. Williams was surprisingly invisible. OV/backstrom/holtby played great. Where was Kuznetzov? Carlson? you're right a lot of things have to go right, but it starts with the core players. It's really not rocket science, Kane/Toews/Kieth/Hossa Kopi/Carter/doughty/Quick, The rest of the roster is interchangable. I just don't think the role players play a more signioficant role, not when its the core guys winning multple cups. Is it important those guys play well? yes. As important? hell no.

Around xmas time they were horrid...then they finally moved Kessel who to me seemed intimidated to be playing with Sid or Malkin and was rushing passes etc. Then they took off with 3 good scoring lines. I think they got lucky with the new goalies getting hot, I don't think Fleury would have got them the cup. IMO
- Garnie

It's a debatable point. Fluery has a weird hot/cold history in the playoffs. Would he have found it? not really sure. I honestly thought Murray was the benefitiary of a team with very good possession/speed.
Murray took the reigns, but imo it was Crosby/letang/Malkin being able to play 200 foot game and kessels extra scoring punch.

It's a debatable point. Fluery has a weird hot/cold history in the playoffs. Would he have found it? not really sure. I honestly thought Murray was the benefitiary of a team with very good possession/speed.
Murray took the reigns, but imo it was Crosby/letang/Malkin being able to play 200 foot game and kessels extra scoring punch.
- neem55

For sure it's debatable....except I'll out debate you every time

For sure it's debatable....except I'll out debate you every time


- Garnie

This is your second post that I've seen, can't say I share your opinion when the first thing you say is "they wouldn't have won with Fluery". What if debates are pretty lame, as the lack factual data of existing in reality. Let me guess: you're religious?

In other topics, anyone else think the world cup of hockey is just a bullpoop moneygrab?

This hasn't happened and won't. They are trying to be competitive (the fans deserve this) while accumulating high end prospects. We are NOT mortgaging our future.
- CanuckDon

Yeah I know my statement was blatantly obvious and I wasn't claiming anyone is doing it I was just using it as an example to show that the objectives of long term playoff success and pushing for the playoffs each year can often result in conflicting management decisions.

BY far the most pathetic thing about that picture of Linden at the draft lottery is it is not a picture... it is a screen shot. Some loser had to sit through and go back and forth and back and forth until they caught Linden in mid-breath and then suggest that it actually means something.

I laugh each time I see it but only because I know there are really really really stupid and pathetic people out there!

In other topics, anyone else think the world cup of hockey is just a bullpoop moneygrab?
- neem55

The NHL as a whole is a money grab. If the average ticket price is around a regular season Leafs/Nucks game and the average game is as exciting/enjoyable as your average regular season Leafs/Nucks game, I don't see how one is particularly worse than the other.

It's more of a question of value for $ as opposed to whether or not it's a money grab because of course it's a money grab.

If it turns into the all-star game 2.0 then it is going to be a poor value money grab imo (some people would prob love the experience regardless).

If it is taken seriously by the players and turns into an exciting tournament then it is going to be a good value money grab.

I was under the impression Tanev was a decent quality second pairing RD. He doesn't produce offense like a top 4 guy but his possession statistics have been consistently there. I'm not sure what his zone starts or PP time are like but his shot suppression stats over the previous two seasons have been easily top pairing quality and he seems to make his line-mates better. Seems like the kind of D man who would be well suited on the second pairing with a more offensively gifted partner.
- RonPielep

That's the impression i want the GM to capitalize on. Hopefully get, like i said, Nichuskin and either Honka or Johns out of Big D... strike while the iron is hot and people have, what i believe, is an inflated opinion of Tanev.