I'm using what an organisation wants compared to what it is willing to pay. That's my point - has nothing to do with Larsson. Oil paid high for a Dman they needed badly.

It's simple to see Pouliot won't get you Trouba, but Pouliot (fulfilling potential), is what Winnipeg want/need. How much would Winnipeg make us add? You & I have no idea, but Shero told Costanza that he was taking on more salary in Hall so that was enough! It worked, Hall is now a devil against everyone's better judgement because the Oil had to make a change & needed a Dman badly. Funny how things work out.
- Aussiepenguin

There are dumb GMs in this league. I remember a GM once trading a young 30-goal scorer and another piece, a PMD to a team for a young PMD that had 31 points in 60 games for a team in the East.

I have zero idea what Winnipeg would have us add. But based on his play, it would be a pretty darn good piece. Winnipeg has a lot of prospects in its organization as well as suspects which DP fits into that category. Anyone would want a fulfilling potential DP. The problem is, that hasn't been realized. I hope he proves his doubters wrong and that includes me. But, until I see it actually happen, my skepticism on him remains at an all time high.

Shero puts a high price tag on young defenseman. That deal with Dallas somewhat ruined us. While we took Dallas to the cleaners on that transaction, it changed the way Shero drafted. He went on to ignore forwards and drafted Dmen like no one's business. Morrow - bust; traded for rental and older Morrow; Harrington looks like a bust to me; Maatta - fine, he hit one. DP - jury is still out. In a major make or break situation here in Pittsburgh this year. Not a good record. I wonder if he learns his lesson from previous failures.

Not really, one is definitely younger and rawer than the other but just wait about 5 years when both teams have trended to the opposite side of the scope they are now.
- Dcoms

Oh. So in 5 years when Ehlers could be a stud, Wheeler has hit 35 and possibly left WPG during free agency, Buff is 36 and probably on the decline due to the physical game he plays, Schiefle is ripping it up, Myers is 31 possibly out of WPG, Stafford is 36 and more than likely gone at 35.

So... the players you mentioned, and the younger and rawer argument is pretty piss poor. At least do your research and mention guys like Laine, Burmistrov, Lowry, etc. But if you had used them, the "marginally less talented" argument wouldn't have worked, because... they're no where NEAR as talented as the Pens players.

But even looking at the players you did mention, they're good and some VERY good hockey players, but they are not Sid, Geno, Letang, Kessel, Hornqvist. Just...no, but nice try though.



Back to the matter at hand though, the majority of time Trouba was lugging around dead weight like Stuart and his other most common partner was Buff. So him putting up those numbers with Stuart, is impressive. Maatta's most common partner last season was Letang, and he put up similar numbers to Trouba. I think it's safe to say if Trouba played with someone of Letang's caliber (like when he was with Buff) more often, his numbers would go up.

There are dumb GMs in this league. I remember a GM once trading a young 30-goal scorer and another piece, a PMD to a team for a young PMD that had 31 points in 60 games for a team in the East.

I have zero idea what Winnipeg would have us add. But based on his play, it would be a pretty darn good piece. Winnipeg has a lot of prospects in its organization as well as suspects which DP fits into that category. Anyone would want a fulfilling potential DP. The problem is, that hasn't been realized. I hope he proves his doubters wrong and that includes me. But, until I see it actually happen, my skepticism on him remains at an all time high.

Shero puts a high price tag on young defenseman. That deal with Dallas somewhat ruined us. While we took Dallas to the cleaners on that transaction, it changed the way Shero drafted. He went on to ignore forwards and drafted Dmen like no one's business. Morrow - bust; traded for rental and older Morrow; Harrington looks like a bust to me; Maatta - fine, he hit one. DP - jury is still out. In a major make or break situation here in Pittsburgh this year. Not a good record. I wonder if he learns his lesson from previous failures.
- Oneonta Penguin

Risk V reward. What are the chances of Pouliot becoming a really solid Dman? What could Trouba not playing do to his value? Is there a team with the 'goods' willing to take a run on Trouba? Trouba is no guarantee either, making a move from where he is & asking $ that might be a risk for a team?? Lots of unknowns - Pouliot is just 1 & certainly on face value unless you are Ryan Wilson Pouliot doesn't hold too much value at the moment but he is what Winnipeg want.

Risk V reward. What are the chances of Pouliot becoming a really solid Dman? What could Trouba not playing do to his value? Is there a team with the 'goods' willing to take a run on Trouba? Trouba is no guarantee either, making a move from where he is & asking $ that might be a risk for a team?? Lots of unknowns - Pouliot is just 1 & certainly on face value unless you are Ryan Wilson Pouliot doesn't hold too much value at the moment but he is what Winnipeg want.
- Aussiepenguin

Sure, its risk v. reward. Can't argue with that at all. What are his chances of becoming a really solid Dman? If you ask me now, I'd say I stand a better chance becoming the President of the Maldive Islands. However, he could prove me wrong this year and I hope he does. That would make the Penguins even better. I don't have any faith in him until he starts showing it. If I'm Peg and I find it necessary that I have to trade him because something can't be worked out, I want a return that gives me faith, not possible ulcers. DP is heavy risk v. reward. Right now, you can argue more risk because he hasn't shown much to give people faith. I think Trouba is a good young player who is getting caught up in the money grab. No way would I offer that much $$$ to him (what he is asking for). IIRC, he is asking for Mark Scheifle (sp?) money, which is utterly ridiculous to me. Scheifele might only be one year older than him, but he has established himself as one of the best in the NHL. Trouble, though good and young, hasn't. That said, I would ship DP off to Winnipeg without question for him, if the cap wasn't in place.

DP+Murray+Fehr for Trouba+1st......I think that should be the salary range the Pens would need to shed.

Larsen snagged Hall, Isn't Trouba a better Dman than Larsen?
- sammy87

I have several problems with this, first why would you weaken the depth at 3 positions for a minimal upgrade at 1 position just to make the financials make sense when you have other options that don't damage the depth at other positions and still offers the minimal upgrade to the top 4 D. Secondly why would you include Murray who has tremendous value right now just to offset financial needs, if they decided they wanted to trade Murray the could get a kings ransom in return for him by himself so making him a throwing in on another trade just makes no sense. If that's what would have to be added to DP to make the trade work then it should be a slam dunk that Maata becomes the centerpiece of the trade.

So what's the over/under on how long before RW puts up a blog defending Pouliot after Sullivan and others were critical of his play last night?

So what's the over/under on how long before RW puts up a blog defending Pouliot after Sullivan and others were critical of his play last night?
- jaydogg1974

I didn't catch a solitary second of that game last night. Was DP's play that bad?

I didn't catch a solitary second of that game last night. Was DP's play that bad?
- MattStrat

per Sully

"Just seeing things a little bit quicker and being more decisive," he said. "I think that will come in time, it's the first game. So obviously there's a lot of rust involved with a lot of the players involved out there. But we tried to put him in a lot of situations. We gave him a lot of power-play time. We had him on the penalty kill. We tried to use him in as many situations as we could to give him a chance to get himself into the game. I do think moving forward, we'd like to see him with just a little bit more conviction with his decision making."

http://nullisecund.us/nhl/game.php?id=2016010017

Even Strength shooting statistics if you're into that kinda stuff.

per Sully

"Just seeing things a little bit quicker and being more decisive," he said. "I think that will come in time, it's the first game. So obviously there's a lot of rust involved with a lot of the players involved out there. But we tried to put him in a lot of situations. We gave him a lot of power-play time. We had him on the penalty kill. We tried to use him in as many situations as we could to give him a chance to get himself into the game. I do think moving forward, we'd like to see him with just a little bit more conviction with his decision making."
- j.boyd919

Sounds like Pens are giving Pouliott a chance to show what he has. I would take this as a make or break camp for him. I would not consider it a failure if he is returned to the minors. If his name pops up in trade rumors then that is a whole different ball game.

http://nullisecund.us/nhl/game.php?id=2016010017

Even Strength shooting statistics if you're into that kinda stuff.
- j.boyd919

If I'm reading that stuff correctly, which honestly Im not totally sure that I am, he was one of the better players for this?

If I'm reading that stuff correctly, which honestly Im not totally sure that I am, he was one of the better players for this?
- MattStrat

That's what it looks like, on the ice for 1 goal for and 1 goal against, 15 shot attempts for, 9 shot attempts against, 10 on target, 4 on target against. Stat line doesn't make it sound too bad, but again I didn't get to watch it, I was working the Lightning game.

per Sully

"Just seeing things a little bit quicker and being more decisive," he said. "I think that will come in time, it's the first game. So obviously there's a lot of rust involved with a lot of the players involved out there. But we tried to put him in a lot of situations. We gave him a lot of power-play time. We had him on the penalty kill. We tried to use him in as many situations as we could to give him a chance to get himself into the game. I do think moving forward, we'd like to see him with just a little bit more conviction with his decision making."
- j.boyd919

First preseason game though and he knows theres quite a bit of weight on his shoulders. See how the rest of the camp and pres season unfolds. He's not absolutely needed opening night...right now, anyway. Who was he paired with most of the night?

First preseason game though and he knows theres quite a bit of weight on his shoulders. See how the rest of the camp and pres season unfolds. He's not absolutely needed opening night...right now, anyway. Who was he paired with most of the night?
- MattStrat

Steve Olesky and some shifts with Schultz.