If you pay him 5.5 and he doesn't make that step it's just as bad as if you pay him 6.5 and he doesn't do it. The 1M is what we're paying McCormick the last 2 years for nothing. It wasn't hurting us then and I don't think 1M extra will cap strap us in the future.
- Zschalberg

Totally and completely not the same thing. Not even a little bit. Plus McCormick is getting paid that, but it's not actually hurting us in any way because it doesn't count toward the cap, other than during the offseason.

If you pay him 5.5 and he doesn't make that step it's just as bad as if you pay him 6.5 and he doesn't do it. The 1M is what we're paying McCormick the last 2 years for nothing. It wasn't hurting us then and I don't think 1M extra will cap strap us in the future.
- Zschalberg

McCormick did not hurt us cause as soon as the season starts he goes on LTIR. Also, we were not trying to make the playoffs the last couple years. This $1m is not just $1m, it shows weakness when Sam and Jack want to sign, so it ends up being more than that. (In my opinion)

Glad to see we made it to two days prior to season started before we started yelling that the sky is falling... seems like an improvement over last year where we just accepted that it had already fallen.


Can't wait for next year

No you don't. What incentive does the guy have to "play better" if he's already cashing the big paycheck?

I like Risto. I wish this wasn't going on, but Murray has a history of paying guys what they want when they've earned it. (O'Reilly and Okposo). I don't think Risto has earned a $6+MM contract yet. I just don't. There are flashes that he could be worth that some day, but he's not worth it now.

This isn't good for the team, but paying him way north of what he's worth right now isn't good for the team in the long run either.
- HonkFortheGoose

I'm not disagreeing with you on not overpaying Risto or anybody else, but we are realistically talking about 1million extra per season for a guy that we have penciled in as being our #1 or #2 for the next decade. Let's not push him into becoming the league's next Trouba, we lose Risto and this rebuild has failed. And, even though Risto may be a bit overpaid at 6, it's hard to justify not giving it to him when you expect him to be a cornerstone of your defense and you've already thrown around such vast amounts of money on crap. 6 million on Risto will look like a steal in a few years if the guy can take the next step, and hopefully that will be this season.

another thing

Murray wanted Vesey for top 6

why didn't he sign one of those vets on the cheap when he couldn't get vesey to commit?

If you pay him 5.5 and he doesn't make that step it's just as bad as if you pay him 6.5 and he doesn't do it. The 1M is what we're paying McCormick the last 2 years for nothing. It wasn't hurting us then and I don't think 1M extra will cap strap us in the future.
- Zschalberg

I disagree. Risto is not worth $6.5 at this point in his career. Maybe someday but not now. If he thinks he is worth $6.5, then he should sign a 2 or 3-year bridge deal and perform like a $6.5 player. If Murray capitulates to Risto's demands - when Risto has no negotiating leverage - then Murray is done as a GM in this league.

$5.5 is fair value for both sides if they want to go longer term. Otherwise sign 2 X $3.5 and let's see where the chips fall.

another thing

Murray wanted Vesey for top 6

why didn't he sign one of those vets on the cheap when he couldn't get vesey to commit?
- homiedclown

which vets?

another thing

Murray wanted Vesey for top 6

why didn't he sign one of those vets on the cheap when he couldn't get vesey to commit?
- homiedclown

Having a young player rise up with other young players (top 6 ish) is one thing, signing another Gionta NOW is not the right move. Maybe Murray is learning that it is hard to get people to Buffalo and develop in house from here on out.

here is our long term numbers, if we can't agree to that, do you want a 2 or 3 year bridge deal
- homiedclown

By the sound of it, he doesn't seem to be interested in signing anything other than a long term deal for north of $6MM. I would imagine they've probably offered him something shorter term for a lower $$ amount at this point in the game.

This situation sucks all around, but you can't put it all on 1 person. It takes two people to come to an agreement. This is a tricky situation all around. If they give in to his demands, then they set the precedent of doing so when Eichel and Reinhart need extensions as well.

which vets?
- Sabresfan-365

Pirri?
Hudler?

If they give in to his demands, then they set the precedent of doing so when Eichel and Reinhart need extensions as well.
- HonkFortheGoose

as of now, none are worth top shelf money

Pirri?
Hudler?
- homiedclown

are any of those upgrades over a healthy Ennis? Seems like nobody wanted pirri for a while and i doubt hudler would have signed here

are any of those upgrades over a healthy Ennis? Seems like nobody wanted pirri for a while and i doubt hudler would have signed here
- Sabresfan-365

no clue

I wonder if ennis gets on the top 6 by default

no clue

I wonder if ennis gets on the top 6 by default
- homiedclown

is nylander up with the sabres an extra or are they giving him ice time

as of now, none are worth top shelf money
- homiedclown

Which is exactly my point. I don't think Risto is worth it yet, but if you give it to him, there's no reason to expect that Eichel won't have increased demands knowing that they caved in to Risto's demands.

It just sets a bad precedent in general unless Murray and Co are no longer here, and I'd rather not assume that that would be the case when Eichel needs an extension.

Yzerman won the offseason

is nylander up with the sabres an extra or are they giving him ice time
- Sabresfan-365

I would have thought it was a serious look, til I found out the second team pp center today

Which is exactly my point. I don't think Risto is worth it yet, but if you give it to him, there's no reason to expect that Eichel won't have increased demands knowing that they caved in to Risto's demands.

It just sets a bad precedent in general unless Murray and Co are no longer here, and I'd rather not assume that that would be the case when Eichel needs an extension.
- HonkFortheGoose

22 months til eichel and reinhart deal with this mess

imagine if risto signs a 2 year bridge deal and it becomes a 3 headed monster

Yzerman won the offseason
- homiedclown

Stamkos for under 9
Kucherov for under 5
Hedman for under 8

Stamkos for under 9
Kucherov for under 5
Hedman for under 8
- dadeadhead

pretty pretty good

Which is exactly my point. I don't think Risto is worth it yet, but if you give it to him, there's no reason to expect that Eichel won't have increased demands knowing that they caved in to Risto's demands.

It just sets a bad precedent in general unless Murray and Co are no longer here, and I'd rather not assume that that would be the case when Eichel needs an extension.
- HonkFortheGoose

I Agree with what you're saying on principle, but do you really think Eichel and Reinhart need to have Risto take Murray to the woodshed in order to get paid when their contracts are up? Eichel and Reinhart are going to get paid, it's just that simple. In two years they will be our Kane and Toews. They are the faces of this franchise and a lock for 1/3 of our top six for the next 8-10 seasons at a minimum. The Sabres will never going through another black Friday like they did when they lost Drury and Briere. And, to play with fire by arguing over an extra million would be disastrous. You pay your core. What we need to do is stop overpaying for garbage like Franson and Gionta.

Stamkos for under 9
Kucherov for under 5
Hedman for under 8
- dadeadhead

I say excellent, but he must win soon. Signings have been excellent though.

22 months til eichel and reinhart deal with this mess

imagine if risto signs a 2 year bridge deal and it becomes a 3 headed monster
- homiedclown

And I bet in 22 months Eichel and Reinhart will have more to their Resume's than Risto. Not that its his fault the team chose to tank for 2 of his 3 ELC years but thats how it worked out. Even if you ignore advanced stats, you're working with 1 year of good stats in which even using the eye test he showed some inconsistency. They're right to play hardball with him. They won't do that with 15 and 23 because they'll have no reason too (just like with ROR)

I would have thought it was a serious look, til I found out the second team pp center today
- homiedclown

I bring it up cuz alot of tweets flying around as to who is playing where, Guhle being mentioned as the 7th D but haven't heard anything regarding Nylander.

Yzerman won the offseason
- homiedclown

no doubt. lots of iffy things broke his way. stamkos left tens of millions on the table to go back there, drouin shut his mouth and played hockey, and kucherov signed a bridge deal- one that still leaves him an rfa when its up. this is all after the st louis/team canada/callahan stuff. is it ever our turn? when do we get to fall in the mud and come up holding a rolex? we have an rfa that is worth 5.5 per, thats market value based on comps, that wont sign because one guy- a former first overall pick/#1 defenseman- signed for more.