I don't. A regular season goal needs nothing more than arms raised or some kind of not-over-the-top fist pumping.

And I think the league needs to market teams more as opposed to individual players. Hockey isn't like the NBA where one guy really can control the game. It's very much a full team sport. Most teams don't have a truly marquee guy and heaven help them if they try to shove McDavid or Matthews down our throats like they did with Crosby.

But, alas, the NHL really does suck at marketing so we'll get these two poster boys shoved down our throats while the "casual hockey fan" watches the NFL and NBA.
- Scoob

He is doing a great job at marketing Radko Gudas

Can't wait for the new book, thanks for the update Bill!!

I'm also hoping that VDV is the healthy scratch when Schenn returns, they have enough other guys that can kill penalties, however, I have a sad, sneaking suspicion that the scratch will be Cousins and that Lyubimov will be sent down so that they can call up a 7th Dman.
- BiggE

I'm think closer to this mindset. I can't stand Chris Vandevelde but you have to do more than be able to talk trash and be younger than another bubble player to keep your spot. Not to say Cousins can't play the game but after Schenn returns, he brings very little to the table.

I'm think closer to this mindset. I can't stand Chris Vandevelde but you have to do more than be able to talk trash and be younger than another bubble player to keep your spot. Not to say Cousins can't play the game but after Schenn returns, he offers very little to the table.
- SuperSchennBros

I hear ya, but, with enough guys in the lineup that can kill penalties, I'd rather have a guy like Cousins who can at least generate a bit of offense and draw a penalty now and then over a pure PK specialist who brings no offense at all to the game like VDV.

I'd personally add Raffl to the rotation over Simmonds.
- MJL

Hak hasn't used him on the PK since he became coach, possibly due to the shot blocking issues YJ alluded to.

Fyi Larry Brooks twitter picture is of Dan Boyle...thats all you need to know about the guy... Its funny, In hockey I don't dislike reporters of other teams, even of teams I hate ( I actually really like Brian Metzer, I get all my pens info from him) but I really dislike Brooks, he just rubs me the wrong way..

I don't. A regular season goal needs nothing more than arms raised or some kind of not-over-the-top fist pumping.

And I think the league needs to market teams more as opposed to individual players. Hockey isn't like the NBA where one guy really can control the game. It's very much a full team sport. Most teams don't have a truly marquee guy and heaven help them if they try to shove McDavid or Matthews down our throats like they did with Crosby.

But, alas, the NHL really does suck at marketing so we'll get these two poster boys shoved down our throats while the "casual hockey fan" watches the NFL and NBA.
- Scoob

I get what you are saying but hockey has a big need for talent so they have to get young kids interested in playing the game. One of the reasons for the clutch and grab era was there wasn't enough NHL level talent. The league out expanded its talent base. With improvements in USA hockey, that gap has slowly closed even though I don't think there is enough for 30 teams still. Now the NHL is adding another team in Vegas and probably a second one to get to 32. They need to grow the game.

It looks like Finland has upped its prospect development but the US is going to have to provide even more talent to the league with how expensive it is to play hockey. Stars sell better in the US. McDavid could of helped to do that. Same with Matthews. Like you said a star doesn't necessarily equal a Stanley cup but they do fill the building and some of them will be kids.

I don't. A regular season goal needs nothing more than arms raised or some kind of not-over-the-top fist pumping.

And I think the league needs to market teams more as opposed to individual players. Hockey isn't like the NBA where one guy really can control the game. It's very much a full team sport. Most teams don't have a truly marquee guy and heaven help them if they try to shove McDavid or Matthews down our throats like they did with Crosby.
- Scoob

I would argue that every team has a marquee player who is worth focusing on (even the Devils!). Other sports have had immense success marketing singular players. The marketing of Crosby was over the top, but you can't say it didn't work. People want to see him play and everyone knows who he is.

You're not the demographic they're after. You aren't going to stop watching hockey because they market Matthews and McDavid a lot.

Basically, the NHL has created team fans more than hockey fans. The NBA is enjoying its best league pass revenues ever because people just want to watch great players. There are tons of fans who can watch their favorite team on cable, but purchase league pass anyway.

I don't know many NHL fans who purchase Center Ice even though they already get their teams' games on cable. The national broadcasts are mostly the same teams from major markets. I recognize that it's a little more difficult when you have 7 Canadian markets in the NHL compared to 1 in the NBA.

By constantly showing Flyers, Red Wings, Blackhawks, Penguins, Caps, Rangers games on NBCSN, it's basically like the league is trying to milk every last cent for every broadcast instead of committing to a long-term goal of growing the sport.

I don't know. Maybe they like it the way it is and want to continue being a niche sport.

Hak hasn't used him on the PK since he became coach, possibly due to the shot blocking issues YJ alluded to.
- Feanor

That's true, he hasn't, but I think Raffl is capable.

I get what you are saying but hockey has a big need for talent so they have to get young kids interested in playing the game. One of the reasons for the clutch and grab era was there wasn't enough NHL level talent. The league out expanded its talent base. With improvements in USA hockey, that gap has slowly closed even though I don't think there is enough for 30 teams still. Now the NHL is adding another team in Vegas and probably a second one to get to 32. They need to grow the game.

It looks like Finland has upped its prospect development but the US is going to have to provide even more talent to the league with how expensive it is to play hockey. Stars sell better in the US. McDavid could of helped to do that. Same with Matthews. Like you said a star doesn't necessarily equal a Stanley cup but they do fill the building and some of them will be kids.
- psuhockey

Speaking of the casual hockey fan, I doubt they care about the Edmonton Oilers. They need to have a reason to tune into a game, and a team they know nothing about probably won't do that. I think McDavid is talked about during pretty much every game and certainly every intermission. Once there is enough interest in those teams, they won't be on primetime games.

Using the NBA as an example...how many casual fans get the chance to watch Anthony Davis? Probably the 3rd-5th best player in basketball right now and I doubt many have even watched him play.

I know officiating is a hard job but my god what is going on in the NHL and NFL? and I am not just talking about games involving the Eagles and Flyers. its just a hot mess all the way around.

This, a million times, this!

Back in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, individual players like Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, etc... were certainly marketed, but it was going to see the Flyers play certain teams that I found exciting. in the 70s, there was nothing like going to the Spectrum to see them take on the Bruins, Canadiens or the hated Rangers. In the 80s, along with Rags, it was the Oilers, Caps and Isles and in the 90s, it morphed into Detroit, NJ and Pittsburgh.

Put it this way, Marcel Dionne might have been a great player, but Flyers fans certainly didn't get all worked up to go see the Kings in 1979. Or for that matter Dale Hawerchuk's Jets or Denis Savard's Blackhawks.
- BiggE

Unfortunately, that's not the way it is today. Fans go to the arena to see certain players. In Philly, it's a bit different because they sell out most games anyway, but in places like Florida, I guarantee McDavid would be a bigger draw than the Kings or Sharks.

The Sixers price their tickets based on jersey sales of opposing players rather than record. People don't want to see the Spurs, but they'll pay a ton of money to watch Kobe fire up 30 shots on a terrible Lakers team.

I would argue that every team has a marquee player who is worth focusing on (even the Devils!). Other sports have had immense success marketing singular players. The marketing of Crosby was over the top, but you can't say it didn't work. People want to see him play and everyone knows who he is.

You're not the demographic they're after. You aren't going to stop watching hockey because they market Matthews and McDavid a lot.

Basically, the NHL has created team fans more than hockey fans. The NBA is enjoying its best league pass revenues ever because people just want to watch great players. There are tons of fans who can watch their favorite team on cable, but purchase league pass anyway.

I don't know many NHL fans who purchase Center Ice even though they already get their teams' games on cable. The national broadcasts are mostly the same teams from major markets. I recognize that it's a little more difficult when you have 7 Canadian markets in the NHL compared to 1 in the NBA.

By constantly showing Flyers, Red Wings, Blackhawks, Penguins, Caps, Rangers games on NBCSN, it's basically like the league is trying to milk every last cent for every broadcast instead of committing to a long-term goal of growing the sport.

I don't know. Maybe they like it the way it is and want to continue being a niche sport.
- PhillySportsGuy

Sounds like you're advocating marketing more teams instead of what they do now.

I know officiating is a hard job but my god what is going on in the NHL and NFL? and I am not just talking about games involving the Eagles and Flyers. its just a hot mess all the way around.
- nastyflyergirl

It's been really bad lately and unfortunately the two worst examples I can think of involved the Eagles vs. Lions and the Flyers vs. Coyotes. I'm glad I'm not a ref, because that has to be a thankless job, but sometimes they're clueless out there

Unfortunately, that's not the way it is today. Fans go to the arena to see certain players. In Philly, it's a bit different because they sell out most games anyway, but in places like Florida, I guarantee McDavid would be a bigger draw than the Kings or Sharks.

The Sixers price their tickets based on jersey sales of opposing players rather than record. People don't want to see the Spurs, but they'll pay a ton of money to watch Kobe fire up 30 shots on a terrible Lakers team.
- PhillySportsGuy

That's sad.

Speaking of the casual hockey fan, I doubt they care about the Edmonton Oilers. They need to have a reason to tune into a game, and a team they know nothing about probably won't do that. I think McDavid is talked about during pretty much every game and certainly every intermission. Once there is enough interest in those teams, they won't be on primetime games.

Using the NBA as an example...how many casual fans get the chance to watch Anthony Davis? Probably the 3rd-5th best player in basketball right now and I doubt many have even watched him play.
- YuenglingJagr

I'm definitely more than a casual fan, but if I had the opportunity to watch the Flyers play the Oilers or the Sharks, I would pick the Oilers strictly because of McDavid.

That's sad.
- Scoob

That's how every NBA team does it and it works well. Not sure how NHL teams do it.

Unfortunately, that's not the way it is today. Fans go to the arena to see certain players. In Philly, it's a bit different because they sell out most games anyway, but in places like Florida, I guarantee McDavid would be a bigger draw than the Kings or Sharks.

The Sixers price their tickets based on jersey sales of opposing players rather than record. People don't want to see the Spurs, but they'll pay a ton of money to watch Kobe fire up 30 shots on a terrible Lakers team.
- PhillySportsGuy

People actually pay to see the Sixers??

All kidding aside, you are right, at least when it comes to non-traditional markets. In Canada, along with markets like NY, Philly, Detroit, Minnesota, Buffalo and Boston, I think it's more about seeing their favorite team play other teams.

I'm definitely more than a casual fan, but if I had the opportunity to watch the Flyers play the Oilers or the Sharks, I would pick the Oilers strictly because of McDavid.
- PhillySportsGuy

See that's where we differ, I'd pick the Sharks because I want to see them play the better team. Of course, my true preference would be to go to both games because I just love to watch hockey!

Should be an easy choice, because given the roster the Flyers have, VandeVelde should already by the spare forward.

Whether it's a familiarity thing, or trust or whatever, all coaches seem to have guys they have a soft spot for. VandeVelde seems to have that with Hakstol.

That's how every NBA team does it and it works well. Not sure how NHL teams do it.
- PhillySportsGuy

I meant what's sad is someone would choose go to a game to see one player rather than to see a better game.

I'm definitely more than a casual fan, but if I had the opportunity to watch the Flyers play the Oilers or the Sharks, I would pick the Oilers strictly because of McDavid.
- PhillySportsGuy

But are you staying up until 10:30 at night to watch either team if they are not playing the Flyers? That's more the issue than anything else. NBCSN could broadcast all of the Oilers games. I am not staying up just to watch McDavid. I watch a ton of hockey that does not include the Flyers. But I rarely make for a late game.

I hear ya, but, with enough guys in the lineup that can kill penalties, I'd rather have a guy like Cousins who can at least generate a bit of offense and draw a penalty now and then over a pure PK specialist who brings no offense at all to the game like VDV.
- BiggE

The problem is, in my opinion I think we're really reaching by making the argument that we have plenty of guys who can kill penalties. I believe one of the ideas of adding Gordon, was to not only keep Giroux from taking so many defensive face offs but also keep him from being on the ice all together on the defensive zone including PK. So we're reaching when we say Giroux can kill penalties. We're going back on our original plan. We're reaching when we say Simmonds can kill penalties. We have seen him do it so far, but should he be? It only take one guy for a couple guys to get hurt who kill penalties. A player could get hurt by killing a penalty.

In my opinion Cousins brings limited offense. On the top pp, the Flyers could have put anyone in that spot to replace Schenn. Weise, Raffl, couturier.

Raffl is another guy we can try to kill penalties and by all means correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't he broke his foot twice blocking shots, once at least when tried on the PK?

See that's where we differ, I'd pick the Sharks because I want to see them play the better team. Of course, my true preference would be to go to both games because I just love to watch hockey!
- BiggE

Thank you

I'm definitely more than a casual fan, but if I had the opportunity to watch the Flyers play the Oilers or the Sharks, I would pick the Oilers strictly because of McDavid.
- PhillySportsGuy

I guess that is one way to look at it. I think of the casual fan as more or someone who says...well nothing is on so I guess I'll watch the Flyers without any consideration of who it is against.

I'd like to know how big the segment of fans you mention is

See that's where we differ, I'd pick the Sharks because I want to see them play the better team. Of course, my true preference would be to go to both games because I just love to watch hockey!
- BiggE

I feel like it's always been about players though. Unless a game is something special (usually unforeseen), people always want to talk about the time they saw a specific guy play. My dad tells me about the time he saw Willie Mays take batting practice. He doesn't remember who won the game, but he remembers the sound of Mays' swing.