I guess that is one way to look at it. I think of the casual fan as more or someone who says...well nothing is on so I guess I'll watch the Flyers without any consideration of who it is against.

I'd like to know how big the segment of fans you mention is
- YuenglingJagr

I'm going to find out how NHL teams price their tickets. If it's based on opponent or jersey sales like the NBA

When spring rolls around, I don't expect the bottom 6 to be nearly the same. It would be fantastic if Read is close to this production for the year.

As a whole, they have been controlling 5 v 5 play, which is extremely encouraging. I still expect Morin at some point and possibly leier. I really want to see one more forward with some real speed added to the bottom 6.
- ravishingone

If Read finishes the season with 41 goals, I will be very happy.

The problem is, in my opinion I think we're really reaching by making the argument that we have plenty of guys who can kill penalties. I believe one of the ideas of adding Gordon, was to not only keep Giroux from taking so many defensive face offs but also keep him from being on the ice all together on the defensive zone including PK. So we're reaching when we say Giroux can kill penalties. We're going back on our original plan. We're reaching when we say Simmonds can kill penalties. We have seen him do it so far, but should he be? It only take one guy for a couple guys to get hurt who kill penalties. A player could get hurt by killing a penalty.

In my opinion Cousins brings limited offense. On the top pp, the Flyers could have put anyone in that spot to replace Schenn. Weise, Raffl, couturier.

Raffl is another guy we can try to kill penalties and by all means correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't he broke his foot twice blocking shots, once at least when tried on the PK?
- SuperSchennBros

Without VDV, they still have PEB, Gordon, Coots and Read to do the lion share of the penalty killing. Giroux and Simmer or Raffl can be spotted in when necessary. And, if they feel they need another regular on the PK and are going to replace Cousins to open up a roster spot, I'd much rather it be Lyubimov, Leier, or when he gets healthy, Laughton, over VDV. All of those other guys bring better ES play to the table than VDV.

I'm going to find out how NHL teams price their tickets. If it's based on opponent or jersey sales like the NBA
- PhillySportsGuy

I think teams that need help generating revenue probably charge more for premier teams. I don't think the Flyers do that. Just my opinion no actual facts to back that up.

Speaking of the casual hockey fan, I doubt they care about the Edmonton Oilers. They need to have a reason to tune into a game, and a team they know nothing about probably won't do that. I think McDavid is talked about during pretty much every game and certainly every intermission. Once there is enough interest in those teams, they won't be on primetime games.

Using the NBA as an example...how many casual fans get the chance to watch Anthony Davis? Probably the 3rd-5th best player in basketball right now and I doubt many have even watched him play.
- YuenglingJagr

Who???

That's sad.
- Scoob

Happens in baseball, too. When a team is pitching their ace or a visiting team brings a star player to town, ticket sales jump. Look the Miami Marlins, when the late Jose Fernandez pitched.

Their average attendance was 21,783 according to www.fansided.com, but when Fernandez pitched, it jumped to 26,752-almost 5,000 more fans per game.

I feel like it's always been about players though. Unless a game is something special (usually unforeseen), people always want to talk about the time they saw a specific guy play. My dad tells me about the time he saw Willie Mays take batting practice. He doesn't remember who won the game, but he remembers the sound of Mays' swing.
- PhillySportsGuy

That makes perfect sense when it comes to baseball, which while a team sport, still often boils down to pitcher vs hitter. When I think back to all the great Flyers games I saw in person, while obviously big plays by individuals stand out, it's more watching them beat a certain team, like the Soviets in 76 or the Oilers in game 6 in 87, that really stands out in my mind.

I meant what's sad is someone would choose go to a game to see one player rather than to see a better game.
- Scoob

You'll never forget seeing a great player. I remember sitting in the 5th row and watching Russell Westbrook play. It's (frank)ing jaw dropping.

It's like the first time I saw Ghost play live. You just want to watch him the entire game because you never know when he'll do something incredible.

Pronger was great and a better player than Ghost, but he's not someone you hyper-focus on when you're at the game

If Read finishes the season with 41 goals, I will be very happy.
- jmatchett383

Heck if he finishes with 21 goals, I'd be ecstatic!

Without VDV, they still have PEB, Gordon, Coots and Read to do the lion share of the penalty killing. Giroux and Simmer or Raffl can be spotted in when necessary. And, if they feel they need another regular on the PK and are going to replace Cousins to open up a roster spot, I'd much rather it be Lyubimov, Leier, or when he gets healthy, Laughton, over VDV. All of those other guys bring better ES play to the table than VDV.
- BiggE

I agree. The PK was ranked at the bottom of the league last year. So how effective is VDV on the PK anyway. In my opinion it needs to be tweaked. VDV offers nothing else outside of being a PK'er. I would sit him. Other players listed have other skills that can help the team.

You'll never forget seeing a great player. I remember sitting in the 5th row and watching Russell Westbrook play. It's (frank)ing jaw dropping.

It's like the first time I saw Ghost play live. You just want to watch him the entire game because you never know when he'll do something incredible.

Pronger was great and a better player than Ghost, but he's not someone you hyper-focus on when you're at the game
- PhillySportsGuy

When a great player is on the ice, of course I'm going to pay attention to that player. However, I'm going to enjoy watching the other 35-40 minutes of the game just as much.

That makes perfect sense when it comes to baseball, which while a team sport, still often boils down to pitcher vs hitter. When I think back to all the great Flyers games I saw in person, while obviously big plays by individuals stand out, it's more watching them beat a certain team, like the Soviets in 76 or the Oilers in game 6 in 87, that really stands out in my mind.
- BiggE

Would you rather watch a great Devils team play the Flyers live or a mediocre Panthers team with Pavel Bure?

When a great player is on the ice, of course I'm going to pay attention to that player. However, I'm going to enjoy watching the other 35-40 minutes of the game just as much.
- BiggE

Good point. Hockey has the non-stars contribute all the time. That's why it is different from the NBA. In the NBA you have to have a great player. In the NHL a team can win without having a great player. It will always be that way.

Yes the stars can be marketed more but that wont change the game that much.

Good point. Hockey has the non-stars contribute all the time. That's why it is different from the NBA. In the NBA you have to have a great player. In the NHL a team can win without having a great player. It will always be that way.

Yes the stars can be marketed more but that wont change the game that much.
- mickel25

Show me teams in the NHL that win without great players

Would you rather watch a great Devils team play the Flyers live or a mediocre Panthers team with Pavel Bure?
- PhillySportsGuy

As much as their style of play drove me nuts, it would still be the Devils. Mainly because I'd really be hoping to see a win over a hated rival.

As much as their style of play drove me nuts, it would still be the Devils. Mainly because I'd really be hoping to see a win over a hated rival.
- BiggE

I guess we're just different. I would never pay to see the Devils during their trap days unless it was a playoff game

Show me teams in the NHL that win without great players
- PhillySportsGuy

No team wins a championship without great players, but I think his point was that in the NHL you can win a championship without a generational superstar like Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux etc... In the NBA, while not always, it's much more like that the team who has the Michael Jordan, Magic, Bird or Lebron is going to win the title.

It's no guarantee in the NHL though: just look at how many championships the Sabres won with the most dominant goalie in the game (Hasek), the Flyers with most dominant player of his era (Lindros) or the Bruins with the best all around Dman in his prime (Bourque).

Show me teams in the NHL that win without great players
- PhillySportsGuy

What is great to you? Is Kopitar great? Is Stamkos great? Is Toews great? Is Giroux great?

I want to make sure we are on the same page with "Great".

No team wins a championship without great players, but I think his point was that in the NHL you can win a championship without a generational superstar like Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux etc... In the NBA, while not always, it's much more like that the team who has the Michael Jordan, Magic, Bird or Lebron is going to win the title.

It's no guarantee in the NHL though: just look at how many championships the Sabres won with the most dominant goalie in the game (Hasek), the Flyers with most dominant player of his era (Lindros) or the Bruins with the best all around Dman in his prime (Bourque).
- BiggE

Typed better than I could say it. Agree 100%.

Show me teams in the NHL that win without great players
- PhillySportsGuy

Define "win." Are you talking championships or are we talking high winning %?

Also, are you saying elite players (McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin, etc.) or star players (Giroux, Tavares, Kopitar, etc.)?

Does Larry Brooks understand the concept of time zones?


I like to watch as many games as I can, but unless he wants Edmonton to start their games at 4pm Edmonton time, it just ain't gonna happen.

It's been really bad lately and unfortunately the two worst examples I can think of involved the Eagles vs. Lions and the Flyers vs. Coyotes. I'm glad I'm not a ref, because that has to be a thankless job, but sometimes they're clueless out there
- aantny88

I get having a bad night. it happens to the best of them but there are some really putrid crews. the crew that did the Eagles Lions game has to be one of the worst in professional sports but yet they are allowed to go out there week after week and suck.

I agree. The PK was ranked at the bottom of the league last year. So how effective is VDV on the PK anyway. In my opinion it needs to be tweaked. VDV offers nothing else outside of being a PK'er. I would sit him. Other players listed have other skills that can help the team.
- mickel25

I think like most, that a player like Vandevelde can be upgraded talent wise. We have to look at why this coach continues to play Vandevelde. Is it because he knew him from the past, or he likes him personally, or is it something else? I think if we look into that, and the possible reasons why, we'd have an idea of why he continues to play for Dave Hakstol.

Does Larry Brooks understand the concept of time zones?


I like to watch as many games as I can, but unless he wants Edmonton to start their games at 4pm Edmonton time, it just ain't gonna happen.
- MBFlyerfan

Brooks is the Panotch of NY

I think like most, that a player like Vandevelde can be upgraded talent wise. We have to look at why this coach continues to play Vandevelde. Is it because he knew him from the past, or he likes him personally, or is it something else? I think if we look into that, and the possible reasons why, we'd have an idea of why he continues to play for Dave Hakstol.
- MJL

I think Hakstol trusts him. Plain and simple. He knows VDV wont go off message.