No team wins a championship without great players, but I think his point was that in the NHL you can win a championship without a generational superstar like Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux etc... In the NBA, while not always, it's much more like that the team who has the Michael Jordan, Magic, Bird or Lebron is going to win the title.

It's no guarantee in the NHL though: just look at how many championships the Sabres won with the most dominant goalie in the game (Hasek), the Flyers with most dominant player of his era (Lindros) or the Bruins with the best all around Dman in his prime (Bourque).
- BiggE

Completely agree with what you state here, but isn't there really two different conversations here. How to win versus marketing.

I think like most, that a player like Vandevelde can be upgraded talent wise. We have to look at why this coach continues to play Vandevelde. Is it because he knew him from the past, or he likes him personally, or is it something else? I think if we look into that, and the possible reasons why, we'd have an idea of why he continues to play for Dave Hakstol.
- MJL

My guess, and it's only a guess, is that it's mainly that Hak values a 4th liners ability to kill penalties and play a solid defensive game more than he does what offense that player brings to the table. While I somewhat agree in principle, I'd still rather have a guy that can at least bring a modicum of offense to the table over a guy like VDV. At this point, his familiarity with the system and Hak as a coach is probably not a factor. It may have been last year when everything was new to the team, but I doubt it matters much by now.

Brooks is the Panotch of NY
- BiggE

Larry Brooks is way worse than Tim Panaccio.

Larry Brooks had made his living being an absolute troll.

You know someone is bad when they make you take sides with John Tortorella.

I get having a bad night. it happens to the best of them but there are some really putrid crews. the crew that did the Eagles Lions game has to be one of the worst in professional sports but yet they are allowed to go out there week after week and suck.
- nastyflyergirl

I'm not even sure if they understand how much of an impact they have on the game...considering those buffoons got paid to ref the Eagles/Lions games is an even bigger disgrace. It's funny because as I was watching the Flyers/Coyotes game, I knew both times that they would come away from the reviews on the short end of things. Typical!

Completely agree with what you state here, but isn't there really two different conversations here. How to win versus marketing.
- MJL

I hear ya, and, when you are in a non-traditional market and/or the home town team is a bad one, marketing the player makes sense. However, for the most part, the best way to sell tickets is to put a winning product on the ice. The only exception to that rule in the NHL seems to be the Devils as they have simply never been able to develop a large fan base, but that is what is going to happen when you are the 3rd team in a market and the new kid on the block.

Larry Brooks is way worse than Tim Panaccio.

Larry Brooks had made his living being an absolute troll.

You know someone is bad when they make you take sides with John Tortorella.
- johndewar

Completely agree with what you state here, but isn't there really two different conversations here. How to win versus marketing.
- MJL

I agree. The 94/95 Devils had a great team with HOF players (Stevens, Niedermayer, Brodeur), but they weren't really "marketable" players. Meanwhile, I'd pay to see a last-place Penguins team from the 80s to see Lemieux play live. Last year, I went to the Flyers/Oilers game for the sole purpose of seeing McDavid live, not because I wanted to see the powerhouse Oilers.

Edit: At the same time, I always made a point to go when the Penguins or Rangers came to town. But it was more fun when Crosby in the Penguins games.

Happens in baseball, too. When a team is pitching their ace or a visiting team brings a star player to town, ticket sales jump. Look the Miami Marlins, when the late Jose Fernandez pitched.

Their average attendance was 21,783 according to www.fansided.com, but when Fernandez pitched, it jumped to 26,752-almost 5,000 more fans per game.
- Jsaquella

I don't think you can draw any comparison to hockey in regards to this

My guess, and it's only a guess, is that it's mainly that Hak values a 4th liners ability to kill penalties and play a solid defensive game more than he does what offense that player brings to the table. While I somewhat agree in principle, I'd still rather have a guy that can at least bring a modicum of offense to the table over a guy like VDV. At this point, his familiarity with the system and Hak as a coach is probably not a factor. It may have been last year when everything was new to the team, but I doubt it matters much by now.
- BiggE

There is no question that having a player that can do what Vandevelde does, as well as do more to drive play, and create offense, as much as a 4th liner could, given the ice time, would be an improvement. In the mean time, if that's not available, the coach is going to play the player that he knows isn't going to make a lot of mistakes to hurt the team, and will play positionally and within the system well, over another player who may be more talented, but also may make more mistakes. Right or wrong or however anyone wants to look at it, that's why Vandevelde remains on the team for the time being. I agree with everyone else that at some point, they need to upgrade there.

Larry Brooks is way worse than Tim Panaccio.

Larry Brooks had made his living being an absolute troll.

You know someone is bad when they make you take sides with John Tortorella.
- johndewar

John Tortarella has been a coach for over a decade.

Therefore, John Tortarella is a good coach.

If you're a Flyers fan, are you more likely to purchase a ticket when Edmonton comes to town, with McDavid on the team, or without him on the team? How about season ticket holders who may, or may not go to a game, based on who is in the lineup. The fuller the arena, the more revenue generated.

What is great to you? Is Kopitar great? Is Stamkos great? Is Toews great? Is Giroux great?

I want to make sure we are on the same page with "Great".
- mickel25

Has a team ever won the Cup without a HOF player?

Has a team ever won the Cup without a HOF player?
- PhillySportsGuy

Yes, the 2015/2016 Pittsburgh Penguins. They do not have a HHOFer on their roster. It's not like every team can have a Frank Mahovolich.

Realistically, I'm not sure that the 05/06 Canes or 10/11 Bruins had a 100% lock HOFer on their rosters (maybe Chara, Bergeron). Same for both Kings teams, even with Doughty and Kopitar, as I don't think they're locks either.

Edit: How about the 03/04 TBL? Do you think any of Lecavalier/Richards/MSL make it? Andreychuk might, but he wasn't one of their main players at that point.

I don't think "great" and "HOFer" are interchangeable.

Has a team ever won the Cup without a HOF player?
- PhillySportsGuy

Again, HOF does not mean great. Jimmy Rollins is going to make the HOF. Really good....but great?

Probably not a team without a HOF. That is probably due to the fact that winning is part of the equation when establishing worthiness of making the HOF.

Yes, the 2015/2016 Pittsburgh Penguins. They do not have a HHOFer on their roster. It's not like every team can have a Frank Mahovolich.

Realistically, I'm not sure that the 05/06 Canes or 10/11 Bruins had a 100% lock HOFer on their rosters (maybe Chara, Bergeron). Same for both Kings teams, even with Doughty and Kopitar, as I don't think they're locks either.

Edit: How about the 03/04 TBL? Do you think any of Lecavalier/Richards/MSL make it? Andreychuk might, but he wasn't one of their main players at that point.
- jmatchett383

The Canes had Recchi who will eventually make it I think.

I'm not even sure if they understand how much of an impact they have on the game...considering those buffoons got paid to ref the Eagles/Lions games is an even bigger disgrace. It's funny because as I was watching the Flyers/Coyotes game, I knew both times that they would come away from the reviews on the short end of things. Typical!
- aantny88

I missed yesterday's Eagles game and after hearing the score I didn't bother watching but I heard there were more absolutely ridiculously bad calls. Like I said I didn't see it first hand so I can't really comment fairly. the Detroit games was horrid. very much like goalie interference, what is and isn't pass interference/holding in the NFL is equally inconsistent.

Yes, the 2015/2016 Pittsburgh Penguins. They do not have a HHOFer on their roster. It's not like every team can have a Frank Mahovolich.

Realistically, I'm not sure that the 05/06 Canes or 10/11 Bruins had a 100% lock HOFer on their rosters (maybe Chara, Bergeron). Same for both Kings teams, even with Doughty and Kopitar, as I don't think they're locks either.

Edit: How about the 03/04 TBL? Do you think any of Lecavalier/Richards/MSL make it? Andreychuk might, but he wasn't one of their main players at that point.
- jmatchett383

MSL will make it. Vinny might make it. Chara will make it. Bergeron has work to do, but he's on the path there. Doughty and Kopitar are on the right path.

The Canes are the only team and Brind'amour might make it anyway.

The Canes had Recchi who will eventually make it I think.
- mickel25

He should, but he's been passed over many times. Also, much like his time with the Bruins, he was not one of the "stars" of that team. That Canes team was all about Brindy, Staal, Williams, and Ward.

MSL will make it. Vinny might make it. Chara will make it. Bergeron has work to do, but he's on the path there. Doughty and Kopitar are on the right path.

The Canes are the only team and Brind'amour might make it anyway.
- PhillySportsGuy

Andrew Ladd could still make it

If you're a Flyers fan, are you more likely to purchase a ticket when Edmonton comes to town, with McDavid on the team, or without him on the team? How about season ticket holders who may, or may not go to a game, based on who is in the lineup. The fuller the arena, the more revenue generated.
- MJL

for me, absolutely makes me want to see the game live more not that I don't want to see as many games as I can live regardless. I mean, I am going Saturday and they are playing Carolina......but I definitely am more inclined to want to see yound stars like McDavid and Matthews no matter how well or bad the team is doing overall

He should, but he's been passed over many times. Also, much like his time with the Bruins, he was not one of the "stars" of that team. That Canes team was all about Brindy, Staal, Williams, and Ward.
- jmatchett383

And Ray Whitney

And Ray Whitney
- YuenglingJagr

Cory Stillmann and Mark Cullen were hoooooge for them.

Just trying to raise the bar here a little.
- Scoob

A noble, yet futile, effort. Best of luck, though.

Again, HOF does not mean great. Jimmy Rollins is going to make the HOF. Really good....but great?

Probably not a team without a HOF. That is probably due to the fact that winning is part of the equation when establishing worthiness of making the HOF.
- mickel25

I consider any player that made the HOF to be great. That's pretty much why they have a HOF.

Also, Rollins is no lock to make it and in his prime he was great.

for me, absolutely makes me want to see the game live more not that I don't want to see as many games as I can live regardless. I mean, I am going Saturday and they are playing Carolina......but I definitely am more inclined to want to see yound stars like McDavid and Matthews no matter how well or bad the team is doing overall
- nastyflyergirl

Which will make the "casual" fan from the USA more likely to go to a game:

"Come see them play the Edmonton Oilers."

"Come see them play NHL superstar Connor McDavid."

I'm gonna say #2.