Lets be good first, then be great
- sbroads24

I think we're going to be BOTH.

There's no albatross on this team. He brought in 3 guys at the beginning of the build. Two actually had the balls to sign and know in their hearts "we are going to (frank)ing suck". Those guys have a role on this team, be it checking line forwards or mid to bottom pair D. Franson is the only bad call I'd say Murray has made where his performance on ice is almost worthless. Kane's a risk, yeah, but his book is not written yet. Moulson, if he can get back to 40 points, sure he's not 5 million dollar Moulson but at least he's not a poop stain either.

I'm not afraid to say I'm a Murray supporter, but I'm not afraid to critique him either. Franson was bad, but it was a safe gamble. Expiring contract this year. Gionta expiring this year, Gorges next year I think. Moulson 1 year left when the money is due, you can do anything with a one year contract.
- TheSabresTaco

Close:

I think we're going to be BOTH.
- SomeoneGerman

I think we are going to be very good. I question the great. That's all.

I'm not whining, Im happy about the win, but I see holes, and agree we need dat D

I think we are going to be very good. I question the great. That's all.

I'm not whining, Im happy about the win, but I see holes, and agree we need dat D
- sbroads24

Oilers or leafs ( The youth movement they're having right now is going to make a lot of buffalo fan jealous )
- GERBE!!!75PTS

Ya the Oilers, they got McDavid hell be the best player in the world at some point, dracks,pulvi, nurse, klef, Larson, nuge, ebbs, ..but?????lol

I think we are going to be very good. I question the great. That's all.

I'm not whining, Im happy about the win, but I see holes, and agree we need dat D
- sbroads24

I don't think these issues get filled this year. I think you wait until the end of the year and then see what's available, maybe the trade deadline. We do have the currency to trade for things in picks, prospects, and even some roster players. The top 6, when healthy, looks good. The defense has a middling 3/4 players but needs a good #1 to make it look decent. If one of those prospects pans out to be a top 6 player you can trade them away or trade away the one they would replace. But you have to hope that they develop enough to garner that interest.

The obvious answer here is the one nobody likes to hear. The most likely way this team adds a top pairing guy without landing a top 3 pick is by moving 23. A) the top 6 can take the hit and b) its easier replacing a RW then it is a D.

Disclaimer: I am in no way saying they need to trade reinhart. Just that its the only way they're going to land someone of equal caliber on D.
- Sabresfan-365

I don't know, like I said Nylander + 1st and ennis gets you a 2nd d man to play with ris, not sure if those pieces get you lindholm but somthing like that I would think

I don't think these issues get filled this year. I think you wait until the end of the year and then see what's available, maybe the trade deadline. We do have the currency to trade for things in picks, prospects, and even some roster players. The top 6, when healthy, looks good. The defense has a middling 3/4 players but needs a good #1 to make it look decent. If one of those prospects pans out to be a top 6 player you can trade them away or trade away the one they would replace. But you have to hope that they develop enough to garner that interest.
- Zschalberg

I think that's a fair asesment, but we're just spit balling. .no?

I don't know, like I said Nylander + 1st and ennis gets you a 2nd d man to play with ris, not sure if those pieces get you lindholm but somthing like that I would think
- MR.Hunter

It should, but it won't because as of right now nobody is available. Thats the real issue. Availability not price.

I don't know, like I said Nylander + 1st and ennis gets you a 2nd d man to play with ris, not sure if those pieces get you lindholm but somthing like that I would think
- MR.Hunter

Yeah, I'm not paying that. That's a top 6 player, a multi-time 20 goal scorer, and a 1st for a good defenseman. I'll do 2 of those pieces and maybe another prospect but otherwise I don't know. Plus, the Ducks would be gaining salary with that trade. I don't think they want to do that

Yeah, I'm not paying that. That's a top 6 player, a multi-time 20 goal scorer, and a 1st for a good defenseman. I'll do 2 of those pieces and maybe another prospect but otherwise I don't know. Plus, the Ducks would be gaining salary with that trade. I don't think they want to do that
- Zschalberg

This really isnt the correct way to value ennis on the trade market, not unless he puts up those numbers this year.

I know it's ESPN, but holy hell are these some whacky ratings:

http://www.espn.com/nhl/s...enguins-get-perfect-start

This really isnt the correct way to value ennis on the trade market, not unless he puts up those numbers this year.
- Sabresfan-365

Still a huge overpayment. Just because some other schmuck overpaid doesn't mean you have to. One trade does not set the market.

Still a huge overpayment. Just because some other schmuck overpaid doesn't mean you have to. One trade does not set the market.
- Wetbandit1

For a top pairing guy? Id say its market value


Edit: would you give up risto for anything less?

For a top pairing guy? Id say its market value


Edit: would you give up risto for anything less?
- Sabresfan-365

I guess it depends on the circumstances. We got rid of Zads and Lemieux because Zads was a tool and Lemieux wasn't going to sign his ELC here.

Would I give up Nylander, Ennis and likely a lottery pick for Risto? No. I'd probably go Ennis and that pick, and even then I'm not thrilled, but I'm not essentially giving up 2 lottery picks for Risto. If it was next year and we had a better handle on what Nylander was, maybe. If he still looked a bit overwhelmed. But then Risto might be a bonafide #1 after this year.

As it stands, no, I would not trade Nylander, Ennis and a 1st for Risto. Ennis is not getting nearly enough love.

I guess it depends on the circumstances. We got rid of Zads and Lemieux because Zads was a tool and Lemieux wasn't going to sign his ELC here.

Would I give up Nylander, Ennis and likely a lottery pick for Risto? No. I'd probably go Ennis and that pick, and even then I'm not thrilled, but I'm not essentially giving up 2 lottery picks for Risto. If it was next year and we had a better handle on what Nylander was, maybe. If he still looked a bit overwhelmed. But then Risto might be a bonafide #1 after this year.

As it stands, no, I would not trade Nylander, Ennis and a 1st for Risto. Ennis is not getting nearly enough love.
- Wetbandit1

Thing is, you add Lindholm and there's no way thats a high pick

I know it's ESPN, but holy hell are these some whacky ratings:

http://www.espn.com/nhl/s...enguins-get-perfect-start
- Wetbandit1

ESPN is (frank)ing stupid
TSN has a serious Canada bias...

...in general "power rankings" are dumb as poop and a cheap way for these types of sites to generate clicks and comments

You are crazy when you say one player doesn't make a team when you're the best player in the game it does
- GERBE!!!75PTS

he's not the best player in the game...... Could be some day but not now

ESPN is (frank)ing stupid
TSN has a serious Canada bias...

...in general "power rankings" are dumb as poop and a cheap way for these types of sites to generate clicks and comments
- feetontheair22

It's not 2010 beating the Bruins is a lot easier than it used to be and giving Toronto credit for beating the Bruins and losing to the Sens, the Sens! is laughable. Same with giving the Oilers credit for beating the Flames is ridiculous. "Hey! You beat a bad team! you get to move up 11 spots! What's that? you got outscored by 4 on home ice to a team ranked 9 spots lower than you? Oh, that's just an aberration." And the Sabres get "nice backbone, you can move up 3 spots." And it all might be, it's been 2, at the most 3 games from teams, I think you wait at least another week or 2 before you start moving teams around from 30th to 8th(Vancouver).

I will never take the Oilers. Their GM is a (frank)ing clown.
- TheSabresTaco

so are some of it's fans....

Thing is, you add Lindholm and there's no way thats a high pick
- Sabresfan-365

That is true. You'd hope anyway. The thing that gives me pause with Lindholm, well 2 things, first is he plays on a defense first team and puts up great numbers, what happens when he's on the Sabres and gets hung out to dry at least 15 times a night? How does he look then? Probably still pretty good, but not worth the package that's being thrown around. And second is the money. I had a super long post on that last night that I won't re-post, but you simply can't spend that much money on defense. The Leafs tried it years ago when they went crazy and signed Komisarek and all those guys and had a ton of money tied up in their defense. And where did that get them? I know, I know, it's the Leafs, but the center holds.

That is true. You'd hope anyway. The thing that gives me pause with Lindholm, well 2 things, first is he plays on a defense first team and puts up great numbers, what happens when he's on the Sabres and gets hung out to dry at least 15 times a night? How does he look then? Probably still pretty good, but not worth the package that's being thrown around. And second is the money. I had a super long post on that last night that I won't re-post, but you simply can't spend that much money on defense. The Leafs tried it years ago when they went crazy and signed Komisarek and all those guys and had a ton of money tied up in their defense. And where did that get them? I know, I know, it's the Leafs, but the center holds.
- Wetbandit1

On your first point. I cant argue that, most of the evidence suggests that Lindholm is doing the heavy lifting regarding that but I cant ignore the fact that hed be asked to do a lot more here. As the bottom 6 gets better though i think well notice a gradual improvement from every 5 man unit that is out there in our own end, at least i hope.

On your second point, I 100% agree but this is faulty logic for not going after a guy who would be the #1 D man on your team. You absolutely shouldn't spend that much money on your defence. But which seems worse to you, 13 mil between Lindholm, Ristolainen and McCabe or 12.3 mil between Bogosian, Franson and Gorges? If you have to ship one of those three out to make room for Lindholm, even in a "bad" trade you do it everyday and twice on sunday.

As the Blackhawks showed, you pay your elite guys no matter what draft well and make creative trades to fill the rest of the spots at a reduced salary.

Put it this way he makes the same as:
Taylor Hall
Matt Duchene
Jordan Eberle
Kyle Okposo
Joe Pavelski
Logan Couture
- ImThatGuy

And none can hit/drop em and score like Lucic

On your first point. I cant argue that, most of the evidence suggests that Lindholm is doing the heavy lifting regarding that but I cant ignore the fact that hed be asked to do a lot more here. As the bottom 6 gets better though i think well notice a gradual improvement from every 5 man unit that is out there in our own end, at least i hope.

On your second point, I 100% agree but this is faulty logic for not going after a guy who would be the #1 D man on your team. You absolutely shouldn't spend that much money on your defence. But which seems worse to you, 13 mil between Lindholm, Ristolainen and McCabe or 12.3 mil between Bogosian, Franson and Gorges? If you have to ship one of those three out to make room for Lindholm, even in a "bad" trade you do it everyday and twice on sunday.

As the Blackhawks showed, you pay your elite guys no matter what draft well and make creative trades to fill the rest of the spots at a reduced salary.
- Sabresfan-365

I agree with you, but you're also operating on a faulty assumption that those players can be moved. I get Franson is gone after this year, but we still have Bogo, and he's about as unmovable as they come unless we trade away someone we really would rather not and use him as a cap dump. Since we're not the GM and have no offers for players you just have to operate under the assumption that no one can be moved.

Edit: The problem is we're paying some average to bad players a lot of money. There are too many to be moved. Patrick Sharp might not be worth the $6M whatever he's making but he still scores goals.

I agree with you, but you're also operating on a faulty assumption that those players can be moved. I get Franson is gone after this year, but we still have Bogo, and he's about as unmovable as they come unless we trade away someone we really would rather not and use him as a cap dump. Since we're not the GM and have no offers for players you just have to operate under the assumption that no one can be moved.

Edit: The problem is we're paying some average to bad players a lot of money. There are too many to be moved. Patrick Sharp might not be worth the $6M whatever he's making but he still scores goals.
- Wetbandit1

He was leading us in ice time after two periods against the Habs, then Risto played more in the third and against the Oilers, and we had our 4 best periods. Coincidence?

Honestly, I don't get the hate on Franson. He's definitely not very good, but he is above average at making quick passes out of the zone. He did it a few times against the Habs and Oilers that I noticed.

He's a fine #5 or 6, that cost us 0 assets to acquire