Nah, you're not understanding what I'm saying. Between Schenn and Simmer, there would still always be at least one guy sliding net-front to provide a screen no matter where the puck is in the umbrella. The other would kick out for the back-door/low one-time option. The high slot would be completely open so the pass between G and Jake could get through, and so Ghost would only have to shoot thru 2-3 guys, instead of 4-5.
- Tomahawk

No, I'm understanding what you're saying perfectly. PP structure isn't that complicated. You don't want the high slot completely open. That's bad structure. That makes it real easy for the PK defenders to attack the players on the perimeter and the points, who have the puck, without the threat in the middle. You want that slot presence to hold the attention of the defenders. The guy sliding in from the side in most cases won't get there in time, and is much easier for the defenders to screen and block them from getting to the net. It will also hurt Schenn's ability to be able to get to all sides and dig out loose pucks, which he is so good at. It's one of the underrated aspects of their PP success.

I think Leier is more justified than Vandevelde.

My point is more that they brought in Gordon to be a guy who can help Giroux, but they haven't really used him that way. What is his strength if he isn't taking a lot of defensive zone face-offs? What makes him a better option than Weal?
- PhillySportsGuy

Sure they've used him that way.

Defensive draws

Giroux 27
Couturier 30
Gordon 30

Who's taking those 30 D zone draws if Gordon isn't? Bellemare has taken 27 of them, and he's at 33.3%. Even with a slow start, Gordon is at 46.7%

Yeah. I wish I could find an affordable way to watch their games this season. It's killing me just watching highlites and reading the next day articles.

It's less about the ones we call up and more about what I'm looking at on the ice for the Flyers. I have a hard time believing they could be worse then some of the guys on the roster and for far less money.

It's not like we're Toronto though who has to fill their roster with young guys because they've bought up so much dead cap space in the last two seasons.
- mayorofangrytown

I can solve that problem entirely.

Its a legal gray area however...

It isn't flawless either and isn't in HD but in use it in a pinch. PM me if interested.

Yes, absolutely it does. Hakstol would be putting Giroux out for a lot more faceoffs. Here's what your missing. Last year, Giroux averaged taking 7.7 defensive zone draws a game. This year, so far, he's averaging 3.8 defensive zone draws per game.
- MJL

I actually see both of your points. I would really like Gordon to win a few more key faceoffs on the PK, especially in the defensive zone. But I can acknowledge that it is early and that his track record says he will.

I also think that, for the first time in a few years, that scoring isn't necessarily an issue. They don't always look pretty, but I do think they are scoring at a reasonable rate. Yes, Giroux could get going at ES -- I am not hiding from that. But I don't think they are scoring so sporadically that the fourth line has to be offensive at this moment

Weal is Jason Akeson 2.0.

Gordon has taken 30 DZ faceoffs. That is a lot considering his limited ice time when Giroux has taken 27, and Couturier 30.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/...=faceoffWinsDefensiveZone
- Feanor

The argument for Akeson was never that he was a good player. It's that he was a better player than Lecavalier and Umberger.

All 4 lines have a positive ozone% around the same. Looks like Hak may just be rolling the lines. Giroux is little higher than the others. We'll see if it continues, but I guess I just assumed Gordon would be taking a higher percentage. I feel like coaches simply overvalue face off guys and defensive forwards.

I like MDZ more than most, and I understand that there just might not be room for him after this season. I get that.

But if he plays well, I don't want to trade him -- I would like for them to try to win this season, too. They have enough assets in the pipeline, especially if Laberge can recover.

MDZ is the best defender on this team, right now, when healthy. They aren't in the upper tier of Cup contention, and I am completely honest about that. But they could win a round, maybe even two depending on health and goaltending, and you need MDZ to do that
- AllInForFlyers

I still don't understand how people can't see the value in guys like Gudas and MDZ when they're out and the defense looks like complete poop. If you let MDZ walk and elect not to sign Burns or Shattenkirk, you need to accept that the defense will be worse next year.

I am not saying you have to re-sign him. I just honestly believe, in a cap world, that sometimes it is ok to let guys walk if you simply can't afford them. You don't have to cash in every single guy at the TDL
- AllInForFlyers

I know.

But if he is playing well and I can get what I got for Coburn I move him. Especially if Manning is playing every night and playing solid with Provorov.

Kind of what I hope with Read. I don't see him as a long term fixture so I hope he plays well so he can be an asset at the TDL.

That's just me. Since this team is a bubble team I would still operate like that.

I know.

But if he is playing well and I can get what I got for Coburn I move him. Especially if Manning is playing every night and playing solid with Provorov.

Kind of what I hope with Read. I don't see him as a long term fixture so I hope he plays well so he can be an asset at the TDL.

That's just me. Since this team is a bubble team I would still operate like that.
- J35Bacher

It's a tough call to trade one of your best defenseman, if you're going to make the playoffs. If a guy like Morin can come up and play well, that might make the decision easier.

I know.

But if he is playing well and I can get what I got for Coburn I move him. Especially if Manning is playing every night and playing solid with Provorov.

Kind of what I hope with Read. I don't see him as a long term fixture so I hope he plays well so he can be an asset at the TDL.

That's just me. Since this team is a bubble team I would still operate like that.
- J35Bacher

I have to agree. It's important to cash in assets rather than lose them.

I'm not a big MDZ fan. That's not to say he doesn't play well for us but I'd flip him at the trade deadline if they have no interest in resigning him whether it be for money or other reasons.

Man, Jonathan Marchessault would look really good on our team as a middle 6 talent, capable of playing top 6 in a pinch. Wonder what genius was calling for the Flyers to sign him cheaply this summer?

It's a tough call to trade one of your best defenseman, if you're going to make the playoffs. If a guy like Morin can come up and play well, that might make the decision easier.
- MJL

And it's still early. A lot can change.

My hope is having a Manning playing well that I can pencil him in next season in my top 6 instead of having to maybe cough up 5-6 million for a FA Del Zotto.

And if Morin is up I agree that moving Del Zotto is easier.

I have to save some money in some places and if I can have a top 6 defender playing at 975k that is a boom especially if I am trying to upgrade other spots.

Man, Jonathan Marchessault would look really good on our team as a middle 6 talent, capable of playing top 6 in a pinch. Wonder what genius was calling for the Flyers to sign him cheaply this summer?
- Mononoke

I wanted him and Colton Sceviuor

I still don't understand how people can't see the value in guys like Gudas and MDZ when they're out and the defense looks like complete poop. If you let MDZ walk and elect not to sign Burns or Shattenkirk, you need to accept that the defense will be worse next year.
- PhillySportsGuy

I feel you, brother. I would love if MDZ got extended, if only because I have no clue if any of the defenders at LHV and in junior are going to make it. I want to believe that Sanheim and Morin, etc., Myers, are gonna get to the NHL roster and be good, really good. But I don't know that and I know that MDZ is a good player, and I wish he would be extended.

But I am honest enough to know that is gonna be a tough sign. At his age and in this market, he's a $5 million player, at the minimum, if he comes back and plays 23 minutes a night like he has.

It's not that they can't give him that. It's that we all know that unless the bottom falls out on what we're looking at, Provorov is a $7 million player. Ghost is a $4 million player, at worst -- and if he becomes even an average defender at ES, which I think he will, that salary only goes up.

Gudas is at a reasonable rate for what he is and does, and is a good player. But unless you are simply willing to walk away from Simmonds -- and I can understand that argument, if someone makes it -- then I just don't see how MDZ is gonna get into a cap that isn't going to go up enough to accommodate what is to come -- hell, Konecny coming off his ELC, even if you bridge him and Provorov, is still gonna eat up whatever you save getting Streit off the books.

They have to get MacDonald out of here after this season if they are gonna re-sign MDZ, to me

I think Leier is more justified than Vandevelde.

My point is more that they brought in Gordon to be a guy who can help Giroux, but they haven't really used him that way. What is his strength if he isn't taking a lot of defensive zone face-offs? What makes him a better option than Weal?
- PhillySportsGuy

Forget Weal. He really is just a AAAA player. Bardreau will get his shot this season or next, but he is injured. Leier is ready imo and better than a couple people on the roster. Lyubimov is already here though, and he's better than a couple people on the roster, and they didn't want to use him with a full roster minus Scheeen.

As for Gordon, it really makes no sense. He's been bleeding shots on the PK like crazy and is a big part, along with the Non-Dynamic Duo, in our bottom 5 penalty kill. After all that bluster about fixing the PK, it's the same poop as years before so far. Mostly due to personnel choices this time imo. But Gordon has actually been OK from a low event standpoint at ES. If you can give him actual capable wingers, where he just has to be low event himself, maybe they could outscore the opposition. His PK suppression #s were better in years past, so maybe it's just a case of SSS. Honestly, PEB is 10x the issue Gordon is right now: at ES and PK. Gordon is playing....OK? Even if his usage is not as advertised. PEB is a mess as 3C and it messes with the qi of the entire bottom 6.

Man, Jonathan Marchessault would look really good on our team as a middle 6 talent, capable of playing top 6 in a pinch. Wonder what genius was calling for the Flyers to sign him cheaply this summer?
- Mononoke

Man, have you seen Shane Harper? Holy cow. Has that guy ever developed, too

They are freaking fast -- i had no clue Marchessault could skate like that. They are in a league with Pittsburgh, as far as speed

I wanted him and Colton Sceviuor
- J35Bacher

Guess which front office deemed it smart to get both?

I have to agree. It's important to cash in assets rather than lose them.

I'm not a big MDZ fan. That's not to say he doesn't play well for us but I'd flip him at the trade deadline if they have no interest in resigning him whether it be for money or other reasons.
- mayorofangrytown

A lot depends on if Manning keeps playing well. But I look at Del Zotto and I think he would really help a playoff team at the TDL. What if I can get back a young possible 3rd line center/winger and a pick

Forget Weal. He really is just a AAAA player. Bardreau will get his shot this season or next, but he is injured. Leier is ready imo and better than a couple people on the roster. Lyubimov is already here though, and he's better than a couple people on the roster, and they didn't want to use him with a full roster minus Scheeen.

As for Gordon, it really makes no sense. He's been bleeding shots on the PK like crazy and is a big part, along with the Non-Dynamic Duo, in our bottom 5 penalty kill. After all that bluster about fixing the PK, it's the same poop as years before so far. Mostly due to personnel choices this time imo. But Gordon has actually been OK from a low event standpoint at ES. If you can give him actual capable wingers, where he just has to be low event himself, maybe they could outscore the opposition. Honestly, PEB is 10x the issue Gordon is right now. Gordon is playing....OK? Even if his usage is not as advertised. PEB is a mess as 3C and it messes with the qi of the entire bottom 6.
- Mononoke

Bellemare at 3C is not a solution. I think he is an NHL player, but he's a fourth-liner -- they looked better in the third period last night when he was playing with Gordon and VDV

I am all for guys showing improvement and moving up. Manning is a clear example of that. If a guy shows he's worth the minutes, give them to him. But PEB is not earning those minutes at 3C. And I'm not saying there's an easy answer, because some people don't believe Cousins is it.

We might not have the 3C we need on this roster

Guess which front office deemed it smart to get both?
- Mononoke

I know.

Man, have you seen Shane Harper? Holy cow. Has that guy ever developed, too

They are freaking fast -- i had no clue Marchessault could skate like that. They are in a league with Pittsburgh, as far as speed
- AllInForFlyers

I like signing Weise for 3x as much and for twice as long personally. Funniest part is, when healthy, is he even a 3rd line player on this team? He's not remotely better than Read or Raffl. Then you have Lindblom going to make the team next year too. It's kind of looking like, on merit, he's a 4th liner now and in the future. It was a panic signing imo. Not one that hurts the team at all, but just wanting to snatch up an average bottom 6 player to get more size. Marchessault is twice the player Weise is on a four times better deal, but alas, he's small.

Bellemare at 3C is not a solution. I think he is an NHL player, but he's a fourth-liner -- they looked better in the third period last night when he was playing with Gordon and VDV

I am all for guys showing improvement and moving up. Manning is a clear example of that. If a guy shows he's worth the minutes, give them to him. But PEB is not earning those minutes at 3C. And I'm not saying there's an easy answer, because some people don't believe Cousins is it.

We might not have the 3C we need on this roster
- AllInForFlyers

I don't think he is. Possibly Rubstov in the future. But next year in FA there isn't really great options I want to spend for. I could see trading for a young one though with Del Zotto if possible.

I can solve that problem entirely.

Its a legal gray area however...
- MikesPillBottle

Inconsequential

It isn't flawless either and isn't in HD

That's a deal breaker. Once you've seen a game in HD you cannot go back to SD.

I don't think he is. Possibly Rubstov in the future. But next year in FA there isn't really great options I want to spend for. I could see trading for a young one though with Del Zotto if possible.
- J35Bacher

It will be Rubtsov. Vorobyov too could be a 3rd line center (I am a fan of his, and he's doing very well in the KHL at his age).

But we need something this year and next. I think Cousins deserves his shot at it. He impressed in 30 games last year.

It will be Rubtsov. Vorobyov too could be a 3rd line center (I am a fan of his, and he's doing very well in the KHL at his age).

But we need something this year and next. I think Cousins deserves his shot at it. He impressed in 30 games last year.
- Mononoke

Completely agree.

I would prefer Cousins for the now. He isn't effective on the wing. I would move Bellemare to the 4th line.

Maybe once all are healthy and back from suspension they could role a 3rd line of Raffl-Cousins-Read/Weise

I like signing Weise for 3x as much and for twice as long personally. Funniest part is, when healthy, is he even a 3rd line player on this team? He's not remotely better than Read or Raffl. Then you have Lindblom going to make the team next year too. It's kind of looking like, on merit, he's a 4th liner now and in the future. It was a panic signing imo. Not one that hurts the team at all, but just wanting to snatch up an average bottom 6 player to get more size. Marchessault is twice the player Weise is on a four times better deal, but alas, he's small.
- Mononoke

I didn't love the Weise signing, and Lord knows, that was a street fight on July 1.

I mean, here's the thing: I do think that Weise can help. I don't hate him. I do think they were a little small in the bottom 6, and he does do some things well -- board work, forechecking. He's an honest player.

But in today's NHL, that third line either has to score or not get scored on. You can't get caved in at ES, shift after shift. And that was my fear with Weise -- he was clearly signed to be 3RW, but he's not a player that you give that money to thinking he's going to be a focal point of a line that isn't getting caved in. And they didn't necessarily have a 3C -- though I hoped Cousins was that -- and because Read was a tire fire last year and Laughton didn't take a step forward, I didn't know if they had a 3LW, either.

It was a signing that you make if you have those other pieces, not if you still needed them. That's what frustrated me about it then, because Weise is the third piece of a line, not the guy you grab first