Man, have you seen Shane Harper? Holy cow. Has that guy ever developed, too

They are freaking fast -- i had no clue Marchessault could skate like that. They are in a league with Pittsburgh, as far as speed
- AllInForFlyers

Harper was always fast. I'm not going to get too excited by his two goals. Isn't he like creeping up on 30 too?

Harper was always fast. I'm not going to get too excited by his two goals. Isn't he like creeping up on 30 too?
- mayorofangrytown

I'm just saying that he fits their system really well. Man, they turn pucks over and go the other way with the best of them.

I'm not overstating Harper's production. Certainly not. I'm just saying that it surprised me that he turned into a legitimate NHL forward who is a good fit in the system he is in

Bellemare at 3C is not a solution. I think he is an NHL player, but he's a fourth-liner -- they looked better in the third period last night when he was playing with Gordon and VDV

I am all for guys showing improvement and moving up. Manning is a clear example of that. If a guy shows he's worth the minutes, give them to him. But PEB is not earning those minutes at 3C. And I'm not saying there's an easy answer, because some people don't believe Cousins is it.

We might not have the 3C we need on this roster
- AllInForFlyers

PEB in 2 seasons is actually one of the worst possession and scoring forwards in the entire NHL. No exaggeration. A handful of worthless international games doesn't change all that data for a 31 year old Euro vet, and the blame can't all be pushed on VDV and White. So far this year? He has 1 point in 7 games on a pokecheck pass to Read. That's it. And if you think it's coming soon: he's the worst possession player on the team. The other worst are all his linemates. I'm sensing a theme here. He is so obviously a drag at 3C.

And not to be neglected of mention, he is the leading penalty killer by far on this team. This team with almost a bottom 5 PK. He has 22 minutes to Coots's 8+ minutes. PEB is our #1 PKer and has been on ice for 50% of PK time. And he is bleeding shots and goals in that time. I think he's been on ice for 5/7 PK goals or something.

I'm just saying that he fits their system really well. Man, they turn pucks over and go the other way with the best of them.

I'm not overstating Harper's production. Certainly not. I'm just saying that it surprised me that he turned into a legitimate NHL forward who is a good fit in the system he is in
- AllInForFlyers

i haven't watched him in FLA but I did get see his two goal game in the highlites. He's bounced around so much and it's good to see a guy who's stuck with it so long get his chance.

I'd prefer FLA was good then Tampa. I'm a huge Bobby Lou fan

PEB in 2 seasons is actually one of the worst possession and scoring forwards in the entire NHL. No exaggeration. A handful of worthless international games doesn't change all that data for a 31 year old Euro vet, and the blame can't all be pushed on VDV and White. So far this year? He has 1 point in 7 games on a pokecheck pass to Read. That's it. And if you think it's coming soon: he's the worst possession player on the team. He is so obviously a drag at 3C.

And not to be neglected of mention, he is the leading penalty killer by far on this team. This team with a bottom 5 PK. He has 22 minutes to Coots's 8+ minutes. PEB is our #1 PKer and has been on ice for 50% of PK time. And he is bleeding shots and goals in that time. I think he's been on ice for 5/7 PK goals or something.
- Mononoke

He is clearly overmatched at 3C. I don't think anybody is fooling themselves over that one. I hope not, anyway

i haven't watched him in FLA but I did get see his two goal game in the highlites. He's bounced around so much and it's good to see a guy who's stuck with it so long get his chance.

I'd prefer FLA was good then Tampa. I'm a huge Bobby Lou fan
- mayorofangrytown

They're good, man. I realize that they're not a team that people think about watching a lot. Denis Potvin is HORRIFIC in the booth, and other than Jagr, maybe Ekblad, there isn't a lot of star power.

But man. They are fun to watch. They are well-coached, play a good system. They really are a good team

Man, Jonathan Marchessault would look really good on our team as a middle 6 talent, capable of playing top 6 in a pinch. Wonder what genius was calling for the Flyers to sign him cheaply this summer?
- Mononoke

Thank you for remembering me

Anybody else see this:
https://www.google.com/am...goaltending?client=safari

Kings inquiring about Mase. Before you say Neuwirth has been horrible, , I am going to assume it is a short term hiccup. If Stolarz is ready to back up...Both teams tight against the cap. Have to be relative equal value swapped. Gaborik is the only one close. Any thoughts?

I didn't love the Weise signing, and Lord knows, that was a street fight on July 1.

I mean, here's the thing: I do think that Weise can help. I don't hate him. I do think they were a little small in the bottom 6, and he does do some things well -- board work, forechecking. He's an honest player.
- AllInForFlyers

He was a 30 point pace player like last two years, just like Read and Raffl. Hell, that could be our 3rd line right there if they move Raffl to the middle. And the Flyers really needed to improve their size and skating.

$2.35m for a ~30 point 3rd liner who can also contribute on PP2 seems fine to me.

Anybody else see this:
https://www.google.com/am...goaltending?client=safari

Kings inquiring about Mase. Before you say Neuwirth has been horrible, , I am going to assume it is a short term hiccup. If Stolarz is ready to back up...Both teams tight against the cap. Have to be relative equal value swapped. Gaborik is the only one close. Any thoughts?
- section32

plz stop

Sure they've used him that way.

Defensive draws

Giroux 27
Couturier 30
Gordon 30

Who's taking those 30 D zone draws if Gordon isn't? Bellemare has taken 27 of them, and he's at 33.3%. Even with a slow start, Gordon is at 46.7%
- MJL

That's very deceptive, because Couturier and Giroux don't take PK zone starts, or at least rarely. Those numbers include that. At Even Strength, Gordon actually has taken 54% of his draws in the o-zone vs d-zone. Coots is at 56%. PEB 55%. Giroux 61%. Gordon has actually been getting very favorable zone starts so far. Way more favorable than his past history or what we believed he would get.

Bellemare at 3C is not a solution. I think he is an NHL player, but he's a fourth-liner -- they looked better in the third period last night when he was playing with Gordon and VDV

I am all for guys showing improvement and moving up. Manning is a clear example of that. If a guy shows he's worth the minutes, give them to him. But PEB is not earning those minutes at 3C. And I'm not saying there's an easy answer, because some people don't believe Cousins is it.

We might not have the 3C we need on this roster
- AllInForFlyers

I agree completely, that Bellemare is a 4th line player, and I have doubts about Cousins. I think he's okay, but I don't see him as solution to the 3rd line center spot. The single biggest issue to this point, in the season, is simply that the team is not playing a solid team game. They are not playing structurally sound hockey team wise. Lots of individual efforts, lack of cohesiveness, and mistakes. I saw the look of frustration on Hakstol's face last night. They need to clean that up, before over worrying about personnel at this point. I also believe that if Hextall thought he had players in the AHL that were better at this point in time, he's make the moves he needed to make.

Anybody else see this:
https://www.google.com/am...goaltending?client=safari

Kings inquiring about Mase. Before you say Neuwirth has been horrible, , I am going to assume it is a short term hiccup. If Stolarz is ready to back up...Both teams tight against the cap. Have to be relative equal value swapped. Gaborik is the only one close. Any thoughts?
- section32

I wouldn't want that Gaborik deal.

If they wanted Mason bad enough I am asking for Muzzin to make the money work.

They would need to pay up for a goalie to keep their season alive.

That's very deceptive, because Couturier and Giroux don't take PK zone starts, or at least rarely. Those numbers include that. At Even Strength, Gordon actually has taken 54% of his draws in the o-zone vs d-zone. Coots is at 56%. PEB 55%. Giroux 61%. Gordon has actually been getting very favorable zone starts so far. Way more favorable than his past history or what we believed he would get.
- Mononoke

Giroux took a lot of PK DZ draws last year. 175 in 78 games.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...ls&sort=DZFO&sortdir=DESC

They got Gordon so he wouldn't have to this season. So far he's at zero in 7 games.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...ls&sort=DZFO&sortdir=DESC

He was a 30 point pace player like last two years, just like Read and Raffl. Hell, that could be our 3rd line right there if they move Raffl to the middle. And the Flyers really needed to improve their size and skating.

$2.35m for a ~30 point 3rd liner who can also contribute on PP2 seems fine to me.
- Feanor

Weise is not the all-around players they are or even close, although a comparable scorer. He spent more ice time with Desharnais and Pacioretty in that time span than anyone else, so let's not act like he was playing with actual 3rd liners either.

No one says it's bad money wise (4 years is a bit much), it just seems so unnecessary looking forward. He's not even a top 9 player on this team now.

I agree completely, that Bellemare is a 4th line player, and I have doubts about Cousins. I think he's okay, but I don't see him as solution to the 3rd line center spot. The single biggest issue to this point, in the season, is simply that the team is not playing a solid team game. They are not playing structurally sound hockey team wise. Lots of individual efforts, lack of cohesiveness, and mistakes. I saw the look of frustration on Hakstol's face last night. They need to clean that up, before over worrying about personnel at this point. I also believe that if Hextall thought he had players in the AHL that were better at this point in time, he's make the moves he needed to make.
- MJL

I think he also wants to give some time. Let guys get a little comfortable in AHL/NHL. Maybe even build value for the future if need be.

In regards to team play the Couturier line seems to be the only line that is gelling with the system. All the others seem to be off and have gaps way to big.

That's very deceptive, because Couturier and Giroux don't take PK zone starts, or at least rarely. Those numbers include that. At Even Strength, Gordon actually has taken 54% of his draws in the o-zone vs d-zone. Coots is at 56%. PEB 55%. Giroux 61%. Gordon has actually been getting very favorable zone starts so far. Way more favorable than his past history or what we believed he would get.
- Mononoke

No, it's not deceptive at all. A defensive zone draw, is a defensive zone draw. Gordon has taken 30 of them. If he's not taking them, someone else would be. Last season, Giroux averaged 7.7 defensive zone draws a game. This year he's only taken 3.8 defensive zone draws a game, albeit in a much smaller sample size. The problem is that has only resulted in Giroux taking one more draw each in the OZ and the NZ on average, which seems to suggest the problem is the Flyers are not generating enough OZ draw situations. Some people just don't want to see the value in the Gordon signing.

Weise is not the all-around players they are or even close, although a comparable scorer. He spent more ice time with Desharnais and Pacioretty in that time span than anyone else, so let's not act like he was playing with actual 3rd liners either.

No one says it's bad money wise (4 years is a bit much), it just seems so unnecessary looking forward. He's not even a top 9 player on this team now.
- Mononoke

By what measure? He'll be back on the 3rd line tomorrow.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/...,&sort=evTimeOnIcePerGame

Read spent plenty of time with Coots the past two years, and Raffl spent a lot of time with G and Jake. They didn't score 30 points strictly playing with other 3rd liners, either.

I wouldn't want that Gaborik deal.

If they wanted Mason bad enough I am asking for Muzzin to make the money work.

They would need to pay up for a goalie to keep their season alive.
- J35Bacher

I don't think anyone really thinks both these guys will be around next year. Neuwirth will turn it around. Mase is playing well and has a ton of value right now (especially to the Kings). But do we need D with Muzzin? I was looking for a highly skilled winger. (Not named Jeff Carter).

Anybody else see this:
https://www.google.com/am...goaltending?client=safari

Kings inquiring about Mase. Before you say Neuwirth has been horrible, , I am going to assume it is a short term hiccup. If Stolarz is ready to back up...Both teams tight against the cap. Have to be relative equal value swapped. Gaborik is the only one close. Any thoughts?
- section32

It's past tense. They signed Lindback. Besides, all it says is they considered him. Well, gee, who wouldn't? But then reality set in and they realized they couldn't afford him.

Fact: we considered Mason for our men's league team. But then reality set in and we realized we couldn't afford him.

Bellemare at 3C is not a solution. I think he is an NHL player, but he's a fourth-liner -- they looked better in the third period last night when he was playing with Gordon and VDV

I am all for guys showing improvement and moving up. Manning is a clear example of that. If a guy shows he's worth the minutes, give them to him. But PEB is not earning those minutes at 3C. And I'm not saying there's an easy answer, because some people don't believe Cousins is it.

We might not have the 3C we need on this roster
- AllInForFlyers

Yup there is no good 3C on this roster

I don't think anyone really thinks both these guys will be around next year. Neuwirth will turn it around. Mase is playing well and has a ton of value right now (especially to the Kings). But do we need D with Muzzin? I was looking for a highly skilled winger. (Not named Jeff Carter).
- section32

There is no way, that LA would trade Muzzin, or any of their top young skilled wingers for Mason, in my opinion. I also wouldn't trust Neuvirth as the full time #1.

It's past tense. They signed Lindback. Besides, all it says is they considered him. Well, gee, who wouldn't? But then reality set in and they realized they couldn't afford him.

Fact: we considered Mason for our men's league team. But then reality set in and we realized we couldn't afford him.
- Scoob

Lindback is having visa issues (albeit a short term problem) but their depth at goal sucks. Getting something for Mase now before his contract expires would be a good thing.

Giroux took a lot of PK DZ draws last year. 175 in 78 games.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...ls&sort=DZFO&sortdir=DESC

They got Gordon so he wouldn't have to this season. So far he's at zero in 7 games.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...ls&sort=DZFO&sortdir=DESC
- Feanor

Yes, I get that. PSG and I were just referring to ES usage though.

And while it is wonderful that Gordon is "taking" those face-offs, and PEB is "taking" those face-offs, it doesn't mean jack poop if they're doing terrible at it, and more importantly, doing a terrible job on the PK. PEB and Gordon getting 49 d zone starts and combined 37:30 minutes on the PK to Coots (with G getting basically zilch) getting 5 starts and 8:53 minutes -- out of only 41 minutes so far this year. They are performing miserably in those minutes in goals and shots against.

Getting ice time and starts and doing poorly in them is not a cause for celebration imo.

There is no way, that LA would trade Muzzin, or any of their top young skilled wingers for Mason, in my opinion. I also wouldn't trust Neuvirth as the full time #1.
- MJL

So, Neuwirth is likely gone at seasons end then.