On a scale of 1-10, 1 being a "mess" 10 being a goldmine, what did Murray inherit in terms of assets?
- sbroads24

6

Players didn't want to come here unless no one else wanted them.

I think with your points I moved from about 2 today to a 5. Had a ton of "C" - "D" level talent in the prospect pool.

Granted, most GM's don't come into a situation like this with as many assets. I'm warming to your point of view, but I think you valued the individual assets much higher than other GM's.
- gcomella34

He values every asset much higher than almost anyone on this board not named Gerbe75pts

The Buffalo Sabres were a complete mess regardless of the assets they had and regardless of what one person thinks of as quality assets.

I think with your points I moved from about 2 today to a 5. Had a ton of "C" - "D" level talent in the prospect pool.

Granted, most GM's don't come into a situation like this with as many assets. I'm warming to your point of view, but I think you valued the individual assets much higher than other GM's.
- gcomella34

I don't know.

He was walking in with 3 potential lottery tickets to McDavid, with a good idea that we were going to be right there at the bottom.

He also had cap space, and a TON of picks, and most importantly, 0 pressure from ownership to be good right away. The plan was already in motion, the lumber was purchased, Tim Murray got to design his own house

He values every asset much higher than almost anyone on this board not named Gerbe75pts

The Buffalo Sabres were a complete mess regardless of the assets they had and regardless of what one person thinks of as quality assets.
- Stripes77

I was considering my statement of "mess" from this morning. Any GM that goes to a team that's at the bottom, typically it's a mess. There were a TON of assets that Murray had, but, he got what he got. I'm sure (outside of maybe ONE deal ) he didn't leave any value on the table.

I was thinking the morning, when selling homes most people I find over value their house and sit around waiting for the offer they want while houses on their sides keep selling for lower prices.

Bottom line, value isn't what you determine it to be, but what another will give you for it.

When employees tell me they're worth more than the company is paying them, I gladly invite them to prove it by testing out the market. I will gladly write them a positive recommendation if they need.

I've only had one prove it.

I don't know.

He was walking in with 3 potential lottery tickets to McDavid, with a good idea that we were going to be right there at the bottom.

He also had cap space, and a TON of picks, and most importantly, 0 pressure from ownership to be good right away. The plan was already in motion, the lumber was purchased, Tim Murray got to design his own house
- sbroads24

My point was look at all the assets Murray had to give up to get what he wanted.

We thought our assets were worth more, the people buying didn't. Therefore the answer is we over valued them.

I was considering my statement of "mess" from this morning. Any GM that goes to a team that's at the bottom, typically it's a mess. There were a TON of assets that Murray had, but, he got what he got. I'm sure (outside of maybe ONE deal ) he didn't leave any value on the table.

I was thinking the morning, when selling homes most people I find over value their house and sit around waiting for the offer they want while houses on their sides keep selling for lower prices.

Bottom line, value isn't what you determine it to be, but what another will give you for it.

When employees tell me they're worth more than the company is paying them, I gladly invite them to prove it by testing out the market. I will gladly write them a positive recommendation if they need.

I've only had one prove it.
- gcomella34

So the value other NHL GM's put on the assets the Sabres had show that it wasn't nearly what people on these boards thought they could get for them.

Sure people can say Murray overpaid, but unless they know (myself included) the ins and outs of every single deal Murray made nobody really knows what the prices were for what pieces of each trade.

You can say he targeted the wrong player (Kane) but you cannot say he overpaid for them without knowing what the market was and what the other GM's thought of Murray's "goldmine of currency". Since nobody here is a NHL GM we will never know. But there are certain posters here who think they know it all.

My point was look at all the assets Murray had to give up to get what he wanted.

We thought our assets were worth more, the people buying didn't. Therefore the answer is we over valued them.
- gcomella34

We were the buyers though.

Winnipeg was the seller in the Kane deal. They made him available. Same with ROR and Lehner. Those players were said to be available prior.

We had the chips to get them. Right or wrong

On a scale of 1-10, 1 being a "mess" 10 being a goldmine, what did Murray inherit in terms of assets?
- sbroads24

9

there was league wide recognition about the "war chest" the sabres had. Almost every leafs fan I knew was wet with jealousy.

Ullmark backing up Nellson tonight. Lehner out.

9

there was league wide recognition about the "war chest" the sabres had. Almost every leafs fan I knew was wet with jealousy.
- Sabresfan-365

Weird, I remember that, you remember that....

Weird, I remember that, you remember that....
- sbroads24

We're both obviously idiots.

We were the buyers though.

Winnipeg was the seller in the Kane deal. They made him available. Same with ROR and Lehner. Those players were said to be available prior.

We had the chips to get them. Right or wrong
- sbroads24

Yes and no. Murray made it abundantly clear that we were sellers as well. We had pieces he was willing to part with to get what he wanted. The other GM's didn't value those pieces that high.

At the end of the day, Myers didn't get the "massive overpayment" we thought he would.

GM's didn't value him as much as we did, I realize I'm using the pronoun "we" there I don't know if you valued Myers that much but I know I did.

It's not like we were going to flip Myers into a prospect+pick
Same thing with Stafford
Zadorov and Grigs the same.

Remember how high we were on Girgensons? What's his ACTUAL value right now? I presume pretty low.

We're both obviously idiots.
- Sabresfan-365

None of us are arguing against that. I'm certainly not. I'm saying our assessment was wrong. I think based off what the pieces that have been sold have done so far bear that out.

We're both obviously idiots.
- Sabresfan-365

IDIOTS

This thread. And, apparently, our GM, 3/4 of our team, 985 of our prospects, and our goal song (probably).

Weird, I remember that, you remember that....
- sbroads24

Ullmark backing up Nellson tonight. Lehner out.
- cabin

Wow it never ends, big angry wussy always hurt or sick

This thread. And, apparently, our GM, 3/4 of our team, 985 of our prospects, and our goal song (probably).


- Khmylev

Wow, you guys really just live in extremes?

I'm not saying they're terrible. They're doing just fine for the injuries they've had, I'm happy.

I'm just looking in retrospect at how much this team really had in the "war chest" when Murray took over.

Yes and no. Murray made it abundantly clear that we were sellers as well. We had pieces he was willing to part with to get what he wanted. The other GM's didn't value those pieces that high.

At the end of the day, Myers didn't get the "massive overpayment" we thought he would.

GM's didn't value him as much as we did, I realize I'm using the pronoun "we" there I don't know if you valued Myers that much but I know I did.

It's not like we were going to flip Myers into a prospect+pick
Same thing with Stafford
Zadorov and Grigs the same.

Remember how high we were on Girgensons? What's his ACTUAL value right now? I presume pretty low.
- gcomella34

That's the thing though, prospects are always worth more to the team that drafted them.

Even when Murray says everyone is available, it's not like playoff teams are calling Murray and saying "Hey, give us that 18 year old Zadorov for our playoff run"

They were used to get what other teams were selling

Wow it never ends, big angry wussy always hurt or sick
- 22sabresQ

I see what ya did there

That's the thing though, prospects are always worth more to the team that drafted them.

Even when Murray says everyone is available, it's not like playoff teams are calling Murray and saying "Hey, give us that 18 year old Zadorov for our playoff run"

They were used to get what other teams were selling
- sbroads24

But if they're AS good as we thought, why weren't they calling like crazy? Why did we have to call other teams if Zadorov was right at the door step of being a top pairing guy?

That's my question.

Given the reasonable dialogue here, I'm starting to see our opinions are not THAT far off..

Only took six pages and about two board crashes to get there.

Ullmark backing up Nellson tonight. Lehner out.
- cabin

That pesky dime someone keeps throwing on the ice keeps kicking his A$$.

But if they're AS good as we thought, why weren't they calling like crazy? Why did we have to call other teams if Zadorov was right at the door step of being a top pairing guy?

That's my question.

Given the reasonable dialogue here, I'm starting to see our opinions are not THAT far off..

Only took six pages and about two board crashes to get there.
- gcomella34

You just don't see trades like that involving prospects. Sometimes of one falls out of favor like Kerby Rychel, one might get dealt. But it's just not something you see

You just don't see trades like that involving prospects. Sometimes of one falls out of favor like Kerby Rychel, one might get dealt. But it's just not something you see
- sbroads24

Ok, this makes sense.

It sounds to me then you didn't see guys like Zadorov as being NHL top pairing ready then correct? I think my larger point was that we over valued our prospects. Our prospect pool was not as deep as a Pens/Hawks when they began. Possibly the same in quantity but certainly not quality.

Tim Murray had to give up all that he did just to get the team to the level that it is right now, which is a tweener team. That's to be expected in the time frame since he's inherited the team. Team's that are terrible and have a crappy "core" don't go from bottom feeding to a deep playoff run in three years. Typically you're looking at five plus before they're even sniffing the playoffs. We could be sniffing the playoffs this year or sniffing a lotto pick who knows? As of right now I'm inclined to believe closer to the playoffs, given this team's current standing with all the injuries, they're still in the thick of it. If you lose the cornerstone of your franchise for a quarter of the season early in the rebuild process, and you DON'T have a ton of quality pieces NHL ready in the pipe yet, it's going to hurt.

The fact that they're in the position they're in is kind of remarkable actually.

Not factoring in who is on the right and left side of the ice. If, Murray made no moves to ship away draft picks and prospects, here is what we might be icing tonight. Make of it what you will, but I think it would be awfully fun to watch good or bad.

Armia-Eichel-Reinhart
Okposo-Gregorenko-Ennis
Moulson-Larsson-Gionta
Foligno-Girgensons-Carrier

Risto-Myers
Zads-McCabe
McNabb-Pysyk
Franson-Gorges-Nelson

Nilsson, Ullmark

Next up in line:

Lemieux, Bailey, Baptiste, Compher, Ghule, Nylander, picks #60 (2014) #21 ,25, 31, and 43 (2015 draft), Petersen, Johanson