List them
- rmiethaner

I think he has a GOOD chance to beat out Muzzin, Vlasic, Shattenkirk, Stralman, Giordano, Keith, McDonagh, Letang, Burns and Subban (we'll have to wait and see as all of these players are significantly more experienced and most on much better teams). I think he could rival or surpass the skill of a Hedman or a Suter. Lindholm I admit to be better, Ekman-Larsson as well as Josi.

I'm glad this was the list of comparable players though because it kind of solidifies my point. If these guys aren't elite in your eyes then Risto isn't elite (no one is). If the guys you are comparing him to are elite then...if the shoe fits...

I think he has a GOOD chance to beat out Muzzin, Vlasic, Shattenkirk, Stralman, Giordano, Keith, McDonagh, Letang, Burns and Subban (we'll have to wait and see as all of these players are significantly more experienced and most on much better teams). I think he could rival or surpass the skill of a Hedman or a Suter. Lindholm I admit to be better, Ekman-Larsson as well as Josi.

I'm glad this was the list of comparable players though because it kind of solidifies my point. If these guys aren't elite in your eyes then Risto isn't elite (no one is). If the guys you are comparing him to are elite then...if the shoe fits...
- RhinoFan

No, the guys comparable to Risto are

Morgan Reilly
Seth Jones
Olli Maatta
Aaron Ekblad
Darnell Nurse
Oscar Klefbom
Colton Parayko
Jacob Trouba

Those are Risto's peers. Not Drew Freaking Doughty

I think he has a GOOD chance to beat out Muzzin, Vlasic, Shattenkirk, Stralman, Giordano, Keith, McDonagh, Letang, Burns and Subban (we'll have to wait and see as all of these players are significantly more experienced and most on much better teams). I think he could rival or surpass the skill of a Hedman or a Suter. Lindholm I admit to be better, Ekman-Larsson as well as Josi.

I'm glad this was the list of comparable players though because it kind of solidifies my point. If these guys aren't elite in your eyes then Risto isn't elite (no one is). If the guys you are comparing him to are elite then...if the shoe fits...
- RhinoFan

Fair enough.

Fair enough.
- rmiethaner

If we had a vote as to who's better.

Colton Parayko vs Rasmus Ristolainen.

95% of St. Louis fans say Parayko, 95% of Buffalo fans say Ristolainen.

If we had a Subban vs Risto vote, what are the numbers then?

No, the guys comparable to Risto are

Morgan Reilly
Seth Jones
Olli Maatta
Aaron Ekblad
Darnell Nurse
Oscar Klefbom
Colton Parayko
Jacob Trouba

Those are Risto's peers. Not Drew Freaking Doughty
- sbroads24

And out of all those guys, who would you trade Risto for straight up? I'd do Ekblad, I guess if it was the right person you'd argue for Rielly, but that's about it.

And out of all those guys, who would you trade Risto for straight up? I'd do Ekblad, I guess if it was the right person you'd argue for Rielly, but that's about it.
- RhinoFan

And 90% of Winnipeg would say Trouba, 90% of St. Louis says Parayko. This is where bias comes into play. That's why people look at more than just basic stats

And out of all those guys, who would you trade Risto for straight up? I'd do Ekblad, I guess if it was the right person you'd argue for Rielly, but that's about it.
- RhinoFan

If Ristolainen is in Winnipeg last year instead of Trouba, Risto is behind Byfuglien on the PP, and barely ends up with 25-30 points.

If the Sabres had someone like Shattenkirk, Faulk, Vatanen, Ristolainen's PP numbers go down

If Ristolainen is in Winnipeg last year instead of Trouba, Risto is behind Byfuglien on the PP, and barely ends up with 25-30 points.

If the Sabres had someone like Shattenkirk, Faulk, Vatanen, Ristolainen's PP numbers go down
- sbroads24

If Risto is on the Peg, he'd be on the 2nd PP unit, but probably nabs another 15 points at 5 on 5 simply due to the strength of the team around him and the style they play (it would even out to 40 most likely).

Also if you added another top notch defender to the Sabres we may just see Jack slide to the wing on the PP and you never see him skip a beat as far as pts go, but coincidentally his possession numbers and other adv stats would be much better.

Edit: And you STOP using Nurse as a comparable, they're only alike in draft order!

If Risto is on the Peg, he'd be on the 2nd PP unit, but probably nabs another 15 points at 5 on 5 simply due to the strength of the team around him and the style they play (it would even out to 40 most likely).

Also if you added another top notch defender to the Sabres we may just see Jack slide to the wing on the PP and you never see him skip a beat as far as pts go, but coincidentally his possession numbers and other adv stats would be much better.
- RhinoFan

That's a mighty high assumption.
Ristolainen was a tad better scoring at even strength with .73 points per 60, while Trouba was at .57

Rasmus Ristolainen was ranked 97th in the NHL in even strength scoring per 60.

The guys up top are the elite scorers. Burns, Karlsson, Brodie, Carlson, Hedman, Byfuglien etc

That's a mighty high assumption.
Ristolainen was a tad better scoring at even strength with .73 points per 60, while Trouba was at .57

Rasmus Ristolainen was ranked 97th in the NHL in even strength scoring per 60.

The guys up top are the elite scorers. Burns, Karlsson, Brodie, Carlson, Hedman, Byfuglien etc
- sbroads24

Why? He did 25% better than Trouba at 5 on 5 while playing many more minutes. Give the kid some rest and a partner who isn't Josh Gorges, yeah I'd venture he does do better.

Risto ranked 97th for even strength scoring per 60 on one of the lowest scoring teams in the league while facing only the best competition.

Every elite scorer you name is on a better team, with a better partner and is multiple years older. Does this count for nothing?

Why? He did 25% better than Trouba at 5 on 5 while playing many more minutes. Give the kid some rest and a partner who isn't Josh Gorges, yeah I'd venture he does do better.

Risto ranked 97th for even strength scoring per 60 on one of the lowest scoring teams in the league while facing only the best competition.

Every elite scorer you name is on a better team, with a better partner and is multiple years older. Does this count for nothing?
- RhinoFan

Because we didn't have a Dustin Byfuglien or Enstrom, or Myers here to share the load with him. That's my point.

He's reaping the benefits of always being on the ice with Jack Eichel or Ryan O'Reilly on the power play. At 5 on 5, he's a typical top 4 D man offensively.

"On a better team" implies we acquire better players, including other D men that will take some of Risto's points from him.

There's a reason why they talked about scaling back his ice time. With injuries they can't do it

Because we didn't have a Dustin Byfuglien or Enstrom, or Myers here to share the load with him. That's my point.

He's reaping the benefits of always being on the ice with Jack Eichel or Ryan O'Reilly on the power play. At 5 on 5, he's a typical top 4 D man offensively.

"On a better team" implies we acquire better players, including other D men that will take some of Risto's points from him.

There's a reason why they talked about scaling back his ice time. With injuries they can't do it
- sbroads24

They talked about scaling back his minutes because almost no defender his age plays that many minutes, its almost unheard of. I think you're under the impression that getting the kid a good partner would take points away, I think it would benefit him greatly...it is what it is.

Ekman-Larsson
Doughty
Subban
Karlsson
Burns
Hedman
Letang
McDonagh
Keith
Giordano
Stralman
Ekblad
Peitrangelo
Shattenkirk
Vlasic
Muzzin
Josi
Suter
Weber
Lindholm

Honest question. How many of these 20 is he better than?
- sbroads24

Have you noticed something about that list though? 18 of those guys are on "good" teams. And OEL is the only one on a really bad team. The Flames are a very "meh" team. So Giordano would be the other guy that's not on a "good" team, and despite firing their coach the Panthers are still a "good" team.

The Sabres are not yet a "good" team.

To answer your question who is he better than? I'd say Josi, and so far this year Ekblad. And with the exception of Ekblad and Lindholm all those guys are older/have more experience.

And if I'm drafting a team today I'd take him over Keith, Giordano, Stralman, Pietrangelo, Suter, Josi and Weber. Not saying I wouldn't take those guys, I would take every one of them on the Sabres, and would draft them if I was building a team, but they're all older or not as good as Risto, and everything else being equal(i.e. something unforeseen like a breakout season or devastating injury), certainly won't be 5 or 6 years from now.

They talked about scaling back his minutes because almost no defender his age plays that many minutes, its almost unheard of. I think you're under the impression that getting the kid a good partner would take points away, I think it would benefit him greatly...it is what it is.
- RhinoFan

Right, and this whole conversation started, because I pointed out that in the 3 games with Eichel back, 2 with him being partnered with McCabe, his numbers haven't improved yet. Maybe they do, maybe they dont.

We also thought better teammates would help Ennis and Girgensons. It turns out they just benefitted from playing a lot of minutes

This topic has been going for hours. Time to change it to Brendan Guhle. Hope he starts here next season.

Have you noticed something about that list though? 18 of those guys are on "good" teams. And OEL is the only one on a really bad team. The Flames are a very "meh" team. So Giordano would be the other guy that's not on a "good" team, and despite firing their coach the Panthers are still a "good" team.

The Sabres are not yet a "good" team.

To answer your question who is he better than? I'd say Josi, and so far this year Ekblad. And with the exception of Ekblad and Lindholm all those guys are older/have more experience.

And if I'm drafting a team today I'd take him over Keith, Giordano, Stralman, Pietrangelo, Suter, Josi and Weber. Not saying I wouldn't take those guys, I would take every one of them on the Sabres, and would draft them if I was building a team, but they're all older or not as good as Risto, and everything else being equal(i.e. something unforeseen like a breakout season or devastating injury), certainly won't be 5 or 6 years from now.
- Wetbandit1

And again, better team implies we get better players, including D men, that will take minutes from Ristolainen.

This topic has been going for hours. Time to change it to Brendan Guhle. Hope he starts here next season.
- sippyd

Hope he stays here this season. ditch gorges.

This topic has been going for hours. Time to change it to Brendan Guhle. Hope he starts here next season.
- sippyd

His skating is a huge +

If we had a vote as to who's better.

Colton Parayko vs Rasmus Ristolainen.

95% of St. Louis fans say Parayko, 95% of Buffalo fans say Ristolainen.

If we had a Subban vs Risto vote, what are the numbers then?
- sbroads24

You're talking about maybe the 5th best defenseman in the league. Again it comes down to your definitions I think outside of the top 8 maybe which I would classify as superstar/franchise players I would say the next group is "elite" and I think Risto belongs in the group, at the low end, sure, but he's really good offensively and sets a lot of plays up, so he'll only get a secondary assist or no assist, but make no mistake he's the one who sets up a lot of plays; especially on the PP. It's no mistake that the Sabres were top 10 without Jack while being in the basement 5v5. It's all because of Risto setting the table for the other guys to score.

This topic has been going for hours. Time to change it to Brendan Guhle. Hope he starts here next season.
- sippyd

I think he almost certainly will.

His skating is a huge +
- sbroads24

He looked like a seasoned vet. Some really nice defensive plays.

Hope he stays here this season. ditch gorges.
- Sabresfan-365

I don't think he can. I think he has to go back down. I'm not totally sure though.

I think he almost certainly will.
- Wetbandit1

He doesn't need to start in Rochester.

You're talking about maybe the 5th best defenseman in the league. Again it comes down to your definitions I think outside of the top 8 maybe which I would classify as superstar/franchise players I would say the next group is "elite" and I think Risto belongs in the group, at the low end, sure, but he's really good offensively and sets a lot of plays up, so he'll only get a secondary assist or no assist, but make no mistake he's the one who sets up a lot of plays; especially on the PP. It's no mistake that the Sabres were top 10 without Jack while being in the basement 5v5. It's all because of Risto setting the table for the other guys to score.
- Wetbandit1

And his numbers say he belongs no where near the next group or top 20. He's a good player. On a fair 5.4 mil deal. But I believe we don't have our #1 d man yet.

I don't think he can. I think he has to go back down. I'm not totally sure though.
- Wetbandit1

Something about being an "emergency" callup?