I have high hopes for them too, but our scouting department goes beyond Murray. It goes back to 2011 when Pegula said the handcuffs are off, so you really have to look at what we've drafted since then and its been nothing of quality in rounds 2-7 from 2011-2014 with the exception of McCabe. - sskkoo1
that's true...but when he came in he brought his own scouting staff and his own rating system...that began with the 2014 draft
Location: You are all Weirdos, NY Joined: 06.06.2012
Dec 10 @ 9:53 AM ET
that's true...but when he came in he brought his own scouting staff and his own rating system...that began with the 2014 draft - Michael Pachla
Fair point, and I have no problem with given Murray a few more seasons to see how his picks turn out, that's only reasonable. It's just discouraging to see other teams draft guys like these:
Fair point, and I have no problem with given Murray a few more seasons to see how his picks turn out, that's only reasonable. It's just discouraging to see other teams draft guys like these:
Fair point, and I have no problem with given Murray a few more seasons to see how his picks turn out, that's only reasonable. It's just discouraging to see other teams draft guys like these:
And, there are more than the ones I listed here, and yet, our scouting department with unlimited resources saw more in guys like Justin Kea. - sskkoo1
You can do that with almost every single draft when you using...hindsight.
Let's look at the drafts beginning with 2012 since he purchased the team in February of 2011.
At the time, we thought the 2012 draft with Grigorenko, Girgensons, and McCabe was going to be super strong for the team. In hindsight, obviously not, although Ullmark in the 6th round is a strength now.
The 2013 draft was strong with Risto, Zadarov, Compher, Hurley, Bailey, Baptiste, Petersen, and the too oft forgotten Florentino.
Zadarov and Compher turned into O'Reilly. Bailey and Baptiste can definitely play at the NHL level, and many have high hopes for Petersen while I think Florentino will be an ideal bottom pairing NHL Dman.
2014 is definitely a miss, but I still have belief in the goalie they took Jonas Johansson and Brycen Martin.
We already know about Guhle in the 2nd round of 2015 and I have belief in William Borgen.
So yes, no superstars, but it's not exactly easy to get superstars past the second round.
That said, we have no idea what Guhle will turn into but to get 2 top 4 defensemen in the 2nd round is certainly a win in my book, if they turn out that way.
Location: You are all Weirdos, NY Joined: 06.06.2012
Dec 10 @ 10:28 AM ET
You can do that with almost every single draft when you using...hindsight.
Let's look at the drafts beginning with 2012 since he purchased the team in February of 2011.
At the time, we thought the 2012 draft with Grigorenko, Girgensons, and McCabe was going to be super strong for the team. In hindsight, obviously not, although Ullmark in the 6th round is a strength now.
The 2013 draft was strong with Risto, Zadarov, Compher, Hurley, Bailey, Baptiste, Petersen, and the too oft forgotten Florentino.
Zadarov and Compher turned into O'Reilly. Bailey and Baptiste can definitely play at the NHL level, and many have high hopes for Petersen while I think Florentino will be an ideal bottom pairing NHL Dman.
2014 is definitely a miss, but I still have belief in the goalie they took Jonas Johansson and Brycen Martin.
We already know about Guhle in the 2nd round of 2015 and I have belief in William Borgen.
So yes, no superstars, but it's not exactly easy to get superstars past the second round.
That said, we have no idea what Guhle will turn into but to get 2 top 4 defensemen in the 2nd round is certainly a win in my book, if they turn out that way. - kingcong39
Yes, I'm aware that it is all in hindsight, and that it is extremely hard to find a gem in the later rounds. My point was that it can be done, though, and since the 2011 draft which was the first real scouting department has no budget limits year, we've picked some serious duds.
From 2014 until now is yet to be seen, so those years shouldn't be taken into account on whether we hit or missed. But from 2011-14, outside of McCabe who was nestled in a group of real solid second round picks, we haven't selected anything of any sort of quality and there were obviously guys out there.
Other teams maintain consistence success for a decade or more due to finding guys in the later rounds, we need to start doing the same. We have the budget to do it so excuses at some point need to start wearing thin.
Location: We need a You're an Ass button, NY Joined: 09.07.2006
Dec 10 @ 10:28 AM ET
You can do that with almost every single draft when you using...hindsight.
Let's look at the drafts beginning with 2012 since he purchased the team in February of 2011.
At the time, we thought the 2012 draft with Grigorenko, Girgensons, and McCabe was going to be super strong for the team. In hindsight, obviously not, although Ullmark in the 6th round is a strength now.
The 2013 draft was strong with Risto, Zadarov, Compher, Hurley, Bailey, Baptiste, Petersen, and the too oft forgotten Florentino.
Zadarov and Compher turned into O'Reilly. Bailey and Baptiste can definitely play at the NHL level, and many have high hopes for Petersen while I think Florentino will be an ideal bottom pairing NHL Dman.
2014 is definitely a miss, but I still have belief in the goalie they took Jonas Johansson and Brycen Martin.
We already know about Guhle in the 2nd round of 2015 and I have belief in William Borgen.
So yes, no superstars, but it's not exactly easy to get superstars past the second round.
That said, we have no idea what Guhle will turn into but to get 2 top 4 defensemen in the 2nd round is certainly a win in my book, if they turn out that way. - kingcong39
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY Joined: 02.12.2012
Dec 10 @ 10:35 AM ET
Yes, I'm aware that it is all in hindsight, and that it is extremely hard to find a gem in the later rounds. My point was that it can be done, though, and since the 2011 draft which was the first real scouting department has no budget limits year, we've picked some serious duds.
From 2014 until now is yet to be seen, so those years shouldn't be taken into account on whether we hit or missed. But from 2011-14, outside of McCabe who was nestled in a group of real solid second round picks, we haven't selected anything of any sort of quality and there were obviously guys out there.
Other teams maintain consistence success for a decade or more due to finding guys in the later rounds, we need to start doing the same. We have the budget to do it so excuses at some point need to start wearing thin. - sskkoo1
Yes, and when you outright trade 2 consecutive 31st overall picks, two late first rounders (21st, 25th) you don't give yourself much of a chance to hit one.
Evgeny Kuznetsov was a 26th pick in 2011
David Pastrnak was the 25th pick in '14.
Location: We need a You're an Ass button, NY Joined: 09.07.2006
Dec 10 @ 10:38 AM ET
Yes, and when you outright trade 2 consecutive 31st overall picks, two late first rounders (21st, 25th) you don't give yourself much of a chance to hit one.
Evgeny Kuznetsov was a 26th pick in 2011
David Pastrnak was the 25th pick in '14.
Why aren't we allowed to get a guy like that? - sbroads24
Same reason the other 28 teams didn't pick them. Didn't know they would be what they are . Did you ?
Location: Cancel my subscription to the resurrection. Joined: 10.15.2007
Dec 10 @ 10:42 AM ET
There's enough talent on this team to be putting more than 1.81 goals per game. This is coaching. Bylsma is not the answer for this team. Poach Arniel from NY Rags. At the very least your special teams will be drastically improved. I'd love to see Mark Recchi behind the bench as an assistant sometime.
Does Gorges or Franson really bring anything to this team that couldn't be improved by bringing up someone permanently ? IMO Fedun is a lock once healthy. Is there any unwritten rule that says you can't let Guhle play in Buffalo ? Burn the year on his contract. He looks like he's gonna be in Buffalo for a long time.
I too think Nilsson is an upgrade over Lehner. Lehner's #'s don't look bad but he doesn't look comfortable. GMTM will never allow this.
Eichel needs to dominate. Take the puck to the net on every play. Don't pass. Get to the net and either get a goal or leave garbage for someone else.
Edit: Just read that Guhle CAN'T play here all year...
There's enough talent on this team to be putting more than 1.81 goals per game. This is coaching. Bylsma is not the answer for this team. Poach Arniel from NY Rags. At the very least your special teams will be drastically improved. I'd love to see Mark Recchi behind the bench as an assistant sometime.
Does Gorges or Franson really bring anything to this team that couldn't be improved by bringing up someone permanently ? IMO Fedun is a lock once healthy. Is there any unwritten rule that says you can't let Guhle play in Buffalo ? Burn the year on his contract. He looks like he's gonna be in Buffalo for a long time.
I too think Nilsson is an upgrade over Lehner. Lehner's #'s don't look bad but he doesn't look comfortable. GMTM will never allow this.
Eichel needs to dominate. Take the puck to the net on every play. Don't pass. Get to the net and either get a goal or leave garbage for someone else. - Pairo11
I agree with all of this. It seems like we should be producing way more goals than we are, albeit we usually do get some good opportunities, but if you can't score you can't win. And for some reason I find myself criticizing every goal Lehner lets in, probably because we gave up a 1st for him. I think if they do not make significant progress by the end of the season there will be a change with the staff. No excuse not to get better. Would have been interesting to see Ruff or even Nolan with all this talent and see what came of it.
