I said draft class he was our 1st pick and the first forward taken he should be better then everyone or the same he's the 8 best player moving down each year

The only reason Laine did not go 1st he was not a centre that's it ..
- GERBE!!!75PTS

I know exactly what you mean, but players are ranked where they're ranked for a reason, and if Murray drafted Pastrnak he would've been fired on the spot. My point is that comparing him to guys around him is fine, and if you want to compare him to Draisaitl, fine, but he's not getting "killed" by his draft class, because comparing him to Pastrnak makes no sense. Lots of guys go late and make it big, look at Datsyuk and Zetterberg. It doesn't mean teams were dumb for not drafting them. Even ROR was a 2nd rounder, was every team dumb for passing him up? No.

I wonder if TPegs ever texts Murray during a game and asks him WTF his team is doing?

If you're going to use hockey stats, im going to be a "hockey therapist."
How did watching that game make you feel?



It was like watching paint dry for me. Oil paint.
- seedy

I didn't watch 55 minutes of it. 50 I missed because I was busy, 5 minutes of vacuuming and then 5 minutes at the end of them actually playing well, so not too bad from what I saw, and let's be honest, made happen.

Edit: lol oil paint, not that new latex poop that dries in the time it takes to get the roller from the pan to the wall?

I'm not criticizing him at all, just comparing him to a guy who's played a comparable amount of games that was ranked ahead of Reinhart. Gerbe said Reinhart is getting "killed" by his class when he's not really getting killed at all. He's not head and shoulders better, but he's far from getting killed. And I thought it was more about experience anyway? Age doesn't matter.
- Wetbandit1

If someone like Mitch Marner were out producing Connor McDavid, people would be talking about it relative to his draft class. Period. Just like Laine is compared to Matthews.

Right now, Nylander, Ehlers, Pastrnak, Draisaitl are all performing better than Sam Reinhart. It's kind of alarming

I don't care if the player is from the late rounds he's a the head scout he should know


You can't (frank) up a first overall pick for a forward ( when we tanked for him)

I know exactly what you mean, but players are ranked where they're ranked for a reason, and if Murray drafted Pastrnak he would've been fired on the spot. My point is that comparing him to guys around him is fine, and if you want to compare him to Draisaitl, fine, but he's not getting "killed" by his draft class, because comparing him to Pastrnak makes no sense. Lots of guys go late and make it big, look at Datsyuk and Zetterberg. It doesn't mean teams were dumb for not drafting them. Even ROR was a 2nd rounder, was every team dumb for passing him up? No.
- Wetbandit1

You're acting like it's an indictment on Murray, it's an indictment on Reinhart. He isn't that good

I know exactly what you mean, but players are ranked where they're ranked for a reason, and if Murray drafted Pastrnak he would've been fired on the spot. My point is that comparing him to guys around him is fine, and if you want to compare him to Draisaitl, fine, but he's not getting "killed" by his draft class, because comparing him to Pastrnak makes no sense. Lots of guys go late and make it big, look at Datsyuk and Zetterberg. It doesn't mean teams were dumb for not drafting them. Even ROR was a 2nd rounder, was every team dumb for passing him up? No.
- Wetbandit1

My point is "if" he was a great scout he could of moved things for a pick to pick THAT player but he just gave picks away like candy ( meaning the draft was weak)

I didn't watch 55 minutes of it. 50 I missed because I was busy, 5 minutes of vacuuming and then 5 minutes at the end of them actually playing well, so not too bad from what I saw, and let's be honest, made happen.

Edit: lol oil paint, not that new latex poop that dries in the time it takes to get the roller from the pan to the wall?
- Wetbandit1

You didnt miss anything, thats for sure.
And i definitely appreciate the stats, despite poking fun. I had no idea those were Jack and ROR's numbers tonight.
Its one of those games i would have skipped if i knew it was going to be that boring.

If someone like Mitch Marner were out producing Connor McDavid, people would be talking about it relative to his draft class. Period. Just like Laine is compared to Matthews.

Right now, Nylander, Ehlers, Pastrnak, Draisaitl are all performing better than Sam Reinhart. It's kind of alarming
- sbroads24

Well Marner was drafted 4th, so yeah, that's still in the realm of apples to apples I understand that it was a bit of a unique year, but still after like the top 5 there's a massive drop off. Is Marner out performing Eichel? He's got a better ppg.

Laine is compared to Matthews because he was taken one spot after him. If Laine was taken at 25 they'd be saying wow! look how lucky Winnipeg is! Nylander looks good, but he's another European player, and say what you will, but they always go later than they should unless they're the players I've already mentioned.

And you still never responded to the age thing.

You didnt miss anything, thats for sure.
And i definitely appreciate the stats, despite poking fun. I had no idea those were Jack and ROR's numbers tonight.
Its one of those games i would have skipped if i knew it was going to be that boring.
- seedy

It was a very hard game to watch for 45 minutes.

You're acting like it's an indictment on Murray, it's an indictment on Reinhart. He isn't that good
- sbroads24

Not really, I'm just saying it's not apples to apples to compare players from a spot when one is supposed to be good(top 5) to one when hopefully you get lucky(really anytime after that, but in the 20's on)

It was a very hard game to watch for 45 minutes.
- Der Kaiser

And even the end wasnt very good, it was just better than the first 45.

People can defend Sam that's fine if he was a late round pick I would not be this irritated

My point is "if" he was a great scout he could of moved things for a pick to pick THAT player but he just gave picks away like candy ( meaning the draft was weak)
- GERBE!!!75PTS

You're also assuming he would've been allowed to not pick Reinhart, or at least make the pick in the top 3-5 area. Statistics show that the later you draft the worse the player is going to be. Overwhelmingly so. You can get lucky, sure, but that's all it is, nothing to do with skill.

People can defend Sam that's fine if he was a late round pick I would not be this irritated
- GERBE!!!75PTS

You play the odds, that's all I'm saying. When you get away from that you're going to lose.

Well Marner was drafted 4th, so yeah, that's still in the realm of apples to apples I understand that it was a bit of a unique year, but still after like the top 5 there's a massive drop off. Is Marner out performing Eichel? He's got a better ppg.

Laine is compared to Matthews because he was taken one spot after him. If Laine was taken at 25 they'd be saying wow! look how lucky Winnipeg is! Nylander looks good, but he's another European player, and say what you will, but they always go later than they should unless they're the players I've already mentioned.

And you still never responded to the age thing.
- Wetbandit1

I agree on the age thing, and I say it all the time that games played mean more, but Reinhart was viewed as the most NHL ready, sound fundementally player. Bennett was younger, and a more raw talent.

What bothers me the most about Reinhart, is that all of the mental, defensive aspects of the game, he has down. That's usually where players improve the most or earn the ice time by getting better in those areas.

Reinhart just barely if ever creates offense or scoring on his own. If someone is going to tell me that the only way this dude is going to score a decent amount is with Jack Eichel, than its a total dud of a 2nd overall pick.

Unfortunately draft status matters, it's how some guys get 2nd and 3rd chances.

I agree on the age thing, and I say it all the time that games played mean more, but Reinhart was viewed as the most NHL ready, sound fundementally player. Bennett was younger, and a more raw talent.

What bothers me the most about Reinhart, is that all of the mental, defensive aspects of the game, he has down. That's usually where players improve the most or earn the ice time by getting better in those areas.

Reinhart just barely if ever creates offense or scoring on his own. If someone is going to tell me that the only way this dude is going to score a decent amount is with Jack Eichel, than its a total dud of a 2nd overall pick.

Unfortunately draft status matters, it's how some guys get 2nd and 3rd chances.
- sbroads24

And he went full Justin Abdelkader for most of his 20-something goals last year

It's just when you're drafting that high you expect to be getting an elite offensive forward. We got a decent complimentary forward. If you take away draft status and look at only his play, I'm pretty happy with it. It's not Sam or his play itself, it's the fact that he was drafted to be an elite forward.

A little bit of fun though, if you could go back and redo that pick, who do you take?



I think Larkin

And he went full Justin Abdelkader for most of his 20-something goals last year
- chilliard77

This, and what do you know, his high shooting % is down since he isn't getting funny bounces to go his way.

He has nothing that resembles a good shot, doesn't have great speed. He's a good PP player.

It's no coincidence that we can't score 5 on 5 when we have so few 5 on 5 talents

It's just when you're drafting that high you expect to be getting an elite offensive forward. We got a decent complimentary forward. If you take away draft status and look at only his play, I'm pretty happy with it. It's not Sam or his play itself, it's the fact that he was drafted to be an elite forward.
- chilliard77

I totally understand that, my point is, aside from Draisaitl and Bennett, no one else was worth drafting there. I like Reinhart over Bennett, so Draisaitl looks like he should've been the guy to draft, but again, you can be the best scout, but it's still largely luck. So we had a 1 in 3 shot and got the second best player. Could be better could be worse. I understand that people want to have an "elite" player there, but simply put, there is no one there that's "elite". Yet. It's not like it was between Marner and Reinhart. Draisaitl doesn't exactly do all the things people expect from Reinhart. He plays great with McDavid, not so well away from him.

A little bit of fun though, if you could go back and redo that pick, who do you take?



I think Larkin
- chilliard77

Pastrnak. No question.

A little bit of fun though, if you could go back and redo that pick, who do you take?



I think Larkin
- chilliard77

Pastrnak or Larkin

Pastrnak. No question.
- Wetbandit1

In order

Pastrnak
Draisaitl
Nylander
Ehlers/Reinhart/Bennett/Larkin

I totally understand that, my point is, aside from Draisaitl and Bennett, no one else was worth drafting there. I like Reinhart over Bennett, so Draisaitl looks like he should've been the guy to draft, but again, you can be the best scout, but it's still largely luck. So we had a 1 in 3 shot and got the second best player. Could be better could be worse. I understand that people want to have an "elite" player there, but simply put, there is no one there that's "elite". Yet. It's not like it was between Marner and Reinhart. Draisaitl doesn't exactly do all the things people expect from Reinhart. He plays great with McDavid, not so well away from him.
- Wetbandit1

Draisaitl produced more when he got hurt last year

and I'm pretty sure he does not even play with him or I could be wrong