Shatty?

what would we have to add?
- IndianaSabresFan

pending ufa and right handed.

im thinking more hanifin or hampus lindholm.

e

Not arguing your analysis, in fact I commend you for it.
Serious question though ... what criteria did you use to decide who fit into which category.
Also, Not that I'm asking you to do it, but one thing I would be interested in is an analysis of of who these players play with that they have a positive impact on...not just +- though. I.e. Crosby makes his wingers better. I don't know, but does Ovechkin make his wingers better?
- IonSabres

The bolded part would be a big project and even then it would be estimated value and not real value as how do you tell who makes who better? The teams record? The scoring pace rising of wingers with one player over another?

The criteria I used was what I could find for each players pre-draft thoughts (which was not easy going back years) and where they ended up as a player in terms of production and overall play.

The generational talents were easy to define, as were most of the top quality players, and the quality players as well when compared to the others in categories above them.

the cool kids are calling it an AJ
- IndianaSabresFan

Applegate

Applegate
- cabin

christina?

pending ufa and right handed.

im thinking more hanifin or hampus lindholm.
- rover16

i don't think you could pry lindholm out without a severe overpayment

christina?
- IndianaSabresFan

No.

A J Applegate.

Additionally, does that mean players like JP Dumont, Dany Heatley, and Jordan Staal have been disappointments?

For comparison, here are the other forwards taken in the top 5 the same year as the players I just listed.

JP Dumont: Alex Volchkov (the rest were D men)
Heatley: Marion Gaborik, Raffi Torres (seriously!)
Jordan Staal: Jonathan Toews, Nicklas Backstrom, Phil

Based on that list, it's fair to say that Jordan Staal was a disappointment compared to his peers while Heatley and Dumont were not, at least compared to their top 5 brethren.
- kingcong39

At #2 overall, I think you need to get better value than that. I look at it this way. A Toyota Camry is a very good, reliable car in most circles. However, if I pay $40,000 for it, it's not the best use of the currency (draft pick) I have, even if it's "house money" (say I inherited it, or won in in the lottery, etc.). Drafting the aforementioned (Staal, Dumont, Heatley) at #2, to me, is the equivalent of paying $40,000 for a Camry. Is it good car? Sure. Could I have done better for the money? Absolutely.

There was a list on twitter of the top 20 rookies in terms of PPG.

6 Maple Leafs, 2 Flyers, Colorado players, 2 Coyotes, even good teams like Columbus, San Jose, Rangers had 3!!!

The effing Rangers who rarely have draft picks have 3.

How in the hell, as a young, rebuilding team on the "rise" do we have not a single player on that list, or anywhere close?

Jesus Christ.
- sbroads24

Ask and you shall receive.

See below for what I am almost certain was used as the basis of top 20 rookies PPG so far.

It seems clear they limited it to 10 games or more to include Buchnevich from the Rangers as he has only played 10 games. I would not include him as that is only 25% of the Rangers season so far.

The problem is Buffalo has too many veterans playing in place of positions that rookies like Bailey and Baptiste should be playing in.

Note: Eichel would be third in PPG on this list in his second season and Reinhart would be 8th in what is his second full season.

Rank Player Season Team Position GP Goals Assists Points PPG Plus Minus PIM
1 Auston Matthews 2016-17 TOR C 37 20 14 34 0.92 4 8
2 Patrik Laine 2016-17 WPG R 41 21 15 36 0.88 8 14
3 Pavel Buchnevich 2016-17 NYR R 10 4 4 8 0.80 4 4
4 Mitch Marner 2016-17 TOR C 37 10 19 29 0.78 -4 18
5 William Nylander 2016-17 TOR C 36 8 18 26 0.72 -3 18
6 Anthony Mantha 2016-17 DET R 23 9 7 16 0.70 9 12
7 Zach Werenski 2016-17 CBJ D 36 6 19 25 0.69 7 10
8 Matthew Tkachuk 2016-17 CGY L 36 7 16 23 0.64 8 70
9 Sebastian Aho 2016-17 CAR R 37 8 13 21 0.57 1 4
10 Mikko Rantanen 2016-17 COL R 33 6 11 17 0.52 -17 8
11 Travis Konecny 2016-17 PHI C 39 5 14 19 0.49 -2 35
12 Jimmy Vesey 2016-17 NYR L 40 11 8 19 0.48 -1 13
13 Connor Brown 2016-17 TOR R 37 8 9 17 0.46 6 6
14 Zach Hyman 2016-17 TOR C 37 5 12 17 0.46 3 18
15 Anthony DeAngelo 2016-17 ARI D 20 3 6 9 0.45 -4 14
16 Kevin Labanc 2016-17 SJS R 25 7 4 11 0.44 5 12
17 Brady Skjei 2016-17 NYR D 40 1 16 17 0.43 4 22
18 Brayden Point 2016-17 TBL C 36 3 12 15 0.42 -5 10
19 Nikita Zaitsev 2016-17 TOR D 37 1 14 15 0.41 -5 14
20 Ivan Provorov 2016-17 PHI D 40 3 13 16 0.40 -4 14
Jack Eichel 2016-17 BUF C 16 7 6 13 0.81 0 4
Sam Reinhart 2016-17 BUF C 37 8 15 23 0.62 1 8

Not probably by year, definitely by year 5, at least according to the historical analysis I did with top 5 picks from 1995-2011.

My main point with this is it often depends on the quality of the draft, and what scouting thought about each player leading into the draft.

Yes, I understand that is difficult to define from many years ago.

Again, if he is a consistent 65 point producing all around player, is that not top quality? Tough to tell with how scoring is now.

Ultimately, like another poster said, I am not trading him for a top 4 D, especially with his ability to play C and W.

I would only trade him in a package for a true top 2 D man, and yes I know it would very likely take more than Reinhart to get that, unless they got lucky with a very young D man they thought highly of who turned out to be a top 2.
- kingcong39

65 points would put him top 25 in scoring last year.

If he ends up top 25-30 in scoring, I'd have 0 issues.

Ask and you shall receive.

See below for what I am almost certain was used as the basis of top 20 rookies PPG so far.

It seems clear they limited it to 10 games or more to include Buchnevich from the Rangers as he has only played 10 games. I would not include him as that is only 25% of the Rangers season so far.

The problem is Buffalo has too many veterans playing in place of positions that rookies like Bailey and Baptiste should be playing in.

Note: Eichel would be third in PPG on this list in his second season and Reinhart would be 8th in what is his second full season.

Rank Player Season Team Position GP Goals Assists Points PPG Plus Minus PIM
1 Auston Matthews 2016-17 TOR C 37 20 14 34 0.92 4 8
2 Patrik Laine 2016-17 WPG R 41 21 15 36 0.88 8 14
3 Pavel Buchnevich 2016-17 NYR R 10 4 4 8 0.80 4 4
4 Mitch Marner 2016-17 TOR C 37 10 19 29 0.78 -4 18
5 William Nylander 2016-17 TOR C 36 8 18 26 0.72 -3 18
6 Anthony Mantha 2016-17 DET R 23 9 7 16 0.70 9 12
7 Zach Werenski 2016-17 CBJ D 36 6 19 25 0.69 7 10
8 Matthew Tkachuk 2016-17 CGY L 36 7 16 23 0.64 8 70
9 Sebastian Aho 2016-17 CAR R 37 8 13 21 0.57 1 4
10 Mikko Rantanen 2016-17 COL R 33 6 11 17 0.52 -17 8
11 Travis Konecny 2016-17 PHI C 39 5 14 19 0.49 -2 35
12 Jimmy Vesey 2016-17 NYR L 40 11 8 19 0.48 -1 13
13 Connor Brown 2016-17 TOR R 37 8 9 17 0.46 6 6
14 Zach Hyman 2016-17 TOR C 37 5 12 17 0.46 3 18
15 Anthony DeAngelo 2016-17 ARI D 20 3 6 9 0.45 -4 14
16 Kevin Labanc 2016-17 SJS R 25 7 4 11 0.44 5 12
17 Brady Skjei 2016-17 NYR D 40 1 16 17 0.43 4 22
18 Brayden Point 2016-17 TBL C 36 3 12 15 0.42 -5 10
19 Nikita Zaitsev 2016-17 TOR D 37 1 14 15 0.41 -5 14
20 Ivan Provorov 2016-17 PHI D 40 3 13 16 0.40 -4 14
Jack Eichel 2016-17 BUF C 16 7 6 13 0.81 0 4
Sam Reinhart 2016-17 BUF C 37 8 15 23 0.62 1 8
- kingcong39

The bolded is what I was getting at, and Guhle included

No.

A J Applegate.
- cabin

i had to search.. i am not up on my actresses i guess..

pending ufa and right handed.

im thinking more hanifin or hampus lindholm.
- rover16

I know points aren't everything, but i would not trade Reinhart for Lindholm, who has 6 pts in 27 gp.

Likewise, Hanifin is a -10 this year. Both have too many warts IMO. I'd rather keep 23 and keep drafting. We have a ten year window with Eichel and Reinhart, so there's no need to trade this and that to accelerate. Just draft and build

I know points aren't everything, but i would not trade Reinhart for Lindholm, who has 6 pts in 27 gp.

Likewise, Hanifin is a -10 this year. Both have too many warts IMO. I'd rather keep 23 and keep drafting. We have a ten year window with Eichel and Reinhart, so there's no need to trade this and that to accelerate. Just draft and build
- jcragcrumple

We need to keep Sam

Day 3 or 4 of the sickness... I'm not sure what day I'm on or what day it is.
I've been praying for death but death has not answered my prayers.
F*ck you death! Right in the colon...










JK death... I'm not ready yet.

I know points aren't everything, but i would not trade Reinhart for Lindholm, who has 6 pts in 27 gp.

Likewise, Hanifin is a -10 this year. Both have too many warts IMO. I'd rather keep 23 and keep drafting. We have a ten year window with Eichel and Reinhart, so there's no need to trade this and that to accelerate. Just draft and build
- jcragcrumple

i saw lindholms stats a few days ago, was pretty surprised considering the year fowler is having. i think lindholm is still considered the superior player though, and lindholm is locked up at ristolainen money for several years, fowler has one more year then ufa.

Tyrod Taylor is undergoing groin surgery on Thursday.
Taylor reported the news himself on Snapchat, but NFL Network's Ian Rapoport adds the quarterback is facing a six-week recovery. That is good news for the Bills, who need Taylor to be able to pass a physical before March 9 in order to release him. Even if the Bills move on as expected, Taylor should have little trouble finding another opportunity in free agency.

Reading this board on a daily basis is like the movie Groundhog Day. Wish it was more like A Thousand Words or maybe The Purge.

Reading this board on a daily basis is like the movie Groundhog Day. Wish it was more like A Thousand Words or maybe The Purge.
- adambuffalo

Bold predictions:

1) Sabres win 3 - 2 in Chicago. Jack, Risto and Oko with the goals. Rhino gets another assist.
2) The two Kane's go out partying together in Chicago after the game - both land in jail and hire the same attorney.
3) Canada thrashes Team USA in the WJC 5 - 1.

Go Sabres Go!

Bold predictions:

1) Sabres win 3 - 2 in Chicago. Jack, Risto and Oko with the goals. Rhino gets another assist.
2) The two Kane's go out partying together in Chicago after the game - both land in jail and hire the same attorney.
3) Canada thrashes Team USA in the WJC 5 - 1.

Go Sabres Go!
- SabreWest

1 and 2 are good bets.

3 is a reach.

At #2 overall, I think you need to get better value than that. I look at it this way. A Toyota Camry is a very good, reliable car in most circles. However, if I pay $40,000 for it, it's not the best use of the currency (draft pick) I have, even if it's "house money" (say I inherited it, or won in in the lottery, etc.). Drafting the aforementioned (Staal, Dumont, Heatley) at #2, to me, is the equivalent of paying $40,000 for a Camry. Is it good car? Sure. Could I have done better for the money? Absolutely.
- buffalofan19

I agree on being able to do better during the Jordan Staal when you see players like Toews, Backstrom, and Kessel taken after him, but could you have done better than Dumont in the top 5 when Volchkov is the only other player taken in the top 5 at forward? The answer is no.

The other forwards taken in the top 5 in Heatley's year were Torres (no way) and Gaborik, who could be considered a lateral move at best, and likely not as good as Heatley, both before the draft and after when comparing their production.

The reason I am comparing top 5 picks only is based on what I found and how it seems there is a consistent dropoff in many draft regarding top 2, then top 5, then top 8 to top 10.

65 points would put him top 25 in scoring last year.

If he ends up top 25-30 in scoring, I'd have 0 issues.
- sbroads24

Sad that 65 points is top 25 in scoring, isn't it?

Man do I miss the days of consistent, exciting, entertaining hockey league wide.

The bolded is what I was getting at, and Guhle included
- sbroads24

I forgot about Guhle, I think because I was mainly looking at point producers.

I also did the 2015-2016 season top 20 rookie scorers, which you can find below.

Jack was 4th and Sam was 8th regarding PPG.

Rank Player Season Team Position GP Goals Assists Points PPG Plus Minus PIM
1 Connor McDavid 2015-16 EDM C 45 16 32 48 1.07 -1 18
2 Artemi Panarin 2015-16 CHI L 80 30 47 77 0.96 8 32
3 Shayne Gostisbehere 2015-16 PHI D 64 17 29 46 0.72 8 24
4 Jack Eichel 2015-16 BUF C 81 24 32 56 0.69 -16 22
5 Max Domi 2015-16 ARI L 81 18 34 52 0.64 3 72
6 Dylan Larkin 2015-16 DET C 80 23 22 45 0.56 11 34
7 Anthony Duclair 2015-16 ARI L 81 20 24 44 0.54 12 49
8 Sam Reinhart 2015-16 BUF C 79 23 19 42 0.53 -8 8
9 Nikolaj Ehlers 2015-16 WPG R 72 15 23 38 0.53 3 21
10 Robby Fabbri 2015-16 STL C 72 18 19 37 0.51 -2 25
11 Joonas Donskoi 2015-16 SJS R 76 11 25 36 0.47 4 20
12 Sam Bennett 2015-16 CGY C 77 18 18 36 0.47 -11 37
13 Colton Parayko 2015-16 STL D 79 9 24 33 0.42 28 29
14 Joseph Blandisi 2015-16 NJD L 41 5 12 17 0.41 -14 34
15 Phillip Di Giuseppe 2015-16 CAR L 41 7 10 17 0.41 0 18
16 Oscar Lindberg 2015-16 NYR C 68 13 15 28 0.41 12 43
17 Jonathan Marchessault 2015-16 TBL C 45 7 11 18 0.40 -10 17
18 Mattias Janmark 2015-16 DAL C 73 15 14 29 0.40 12 16
19 Sven Andrighetto 2015-16 MTL R 44 7 10 17 0.39 1 6
20 Colin Miller 2015-16 BOS D 42 3 13 16 0.38 0 39

Sad that 65 points is top 25 in scoring, isn't it?

Man do I miss the days of consistent, exciting, entertaining hockey league wide.
- kingcong39

It's getting slightly better, looks like 65 points won't be top 30 this year.

15 minutes til "Murray Can't Do Anything Right" 2.0 commences!