If Guhle is on our 2nd pair next year...
we will MISS the playoffs again

You're expecting WAY too much, way too soon
- jdfitz77

When the second pair this year has been Kulikov (playing poorly) and Bogo (hurt again)

With Guhle's limited time here he looked the part and should have made the team out of camp

When the second pair this year has been Kulikov (playing poorly) and Bogo (hurt again)

With Guhle's limited time here he looked the part and should have made the team out of camp
- Stripes77

He really did look good when he was here. But could he have kept that up for an entire season?

Your stats say shots against hurts
Even if that shot against has ZERO to do with whether or not Risto had done his job or not on the play

Using those stats is "generalizing"

I'm looking specifically at how each players actions affect what leads to that shot
It's not always the fault of everyone on the ice
- jdfitz77

No kidding, just like every goal scored isn't all 5 players fault.

Which sample size is bigger, the 100+ shot attempts, or the 4-5 goals scored per game?

Bigger samples are better to analyze.


***NO ONE IS SAYING JUDGE A PLAYER SOLELY BASED ON CORSI*****

I'm ok with that
I'd like it even better if we were strong enough that Guhle could at least start the year in Rochester

I like Bogosian when healthy...
but at this point I'm coming around to SBroads point of view
The guy is hurt so much that it just doesn't matter
- jdfitz77

Right now I am daydreaming for a Shattenkirk signing (7 years 7 million), Brodin trade (Baptiste, Minny's 2nd this year, and our 2nd next year) and a Gorges trade (a 4th from like NJ)

Brodin Risto
McCabe Shattenkirk
Guhle Bogosian
Falk

Some will say we can't afford Shattenkirk at that price. But realistically with the expiring contracts, a Gorges trade, and Ennis getting selected by Vegas (hopefully), they would still have plenty of room for Reinhart and Eichel when they are due.

He really did look good when he was here. But could he have kept that up for an entire season?
- CoHo_to_B-Lo

I'd like to find out

There will be some growing pains for sure but if he is playing a 4/5 role I don't see how that's a bad thing.

There will be games where he will look great and you could play him 25 minutes a night and there will be games where he shouldn't play more than 15.

Right now I am daydreaming for a Shattenkirk signing (7 years 7 million), Brodin trade (Baptiste, Minny's 2nd this year, and our 2nd next year) and a Gorges trade (a 4th from like NJ)

Brodin Risto
McCabe Shattenkirk
Guhle Bogosian
Falk

Some will say we can't afford Shattenkirk at that price. But realistically with the expiring contracts, a Gorges trade, and Ennis getting selected by Vegas (hopefully), they would still have plenty of room for Reinhart and Eichel when they are due.
- Mentalorgasm5

Reinhart isn't going to get the next same contract as Eichel. There I said it, not sure what he'll get, bridge deal? A million or so less a year but they aren't the same and don't have the same worth.

***NO ONE IS SAYING JUDGE A PLAYER SOLELY BASED ON CORSI*****
- sbroads24

You're right no one is saying that. For the most part, it would seem jdfitz77 and myself are all arguing that Corsi is no more relevant on individual performance than plus/minus.

You're right no one is saying that. For the most part, it would seem jdfitz77 and myself are all arguing that Corsi is no more relevant on individual performance than plus/minus.
- Mentalorgasm5

I understand that. But again, plus/minus is one general category. Goals can be lucky. In fact, a lot of goals can be lucky.

Shots are shots. Even if a few dump in's hit the goalie, those are a few of 100+ per game. A lucky goal can be 25% of the amount of goals scored that game.

When the second pair this year has been Kulikov (playing poorly) and Bogo (hurt again)

With Guhle's limited time here he looked the part and should have made the team out of camp
- Stripes77

For what... 2 games?!
The kid isn't ready for top4 minutes on a playoff team
NO WAY

Rushing it is stupid

And if I'm wrong & he is THAT good...
having him on the 3rd pair would make us that much stronger

No kidding, just like every goal scored isn't all 5 players fault.

Which sample size is bigger, the 100+ shot attempts, or the 4-5 goals scored per game?

Bigger samples are better to analyze.


***NO ONE IS SAYING JUDGE A PLAYER SOLELY BASED ON CORSI*****
- sbroads24

It should be be given any more weight than +\-
It's a team stat, not individual

U continue to not explain how it's Risto's fault a shot goes on net even when it's not his guy & he does his job right

Right now I am daydreaming for a Shattenkirk signing (7 years 7 million), Brodin trade (Baptiste, Minny's 2nd this year, and our 2nd next year) and a Gorges trade (a 4th from like NJ)

Brodin Risto
McCabe Shattenkirk
Guhle Bogosian
Falk

Some will say we can't afford Shattenkirk at that price. But realistically with the expiring contracts, a Gorges trade, and Ennis getting selected by Vegas (hopefully), they would still have plenty of room for Reinhart and Eichel when they are due.
- Mentalorgasm5

Where it becomes tough is when Brodin & McCabe need raises
I'll pass on Shattenkirk
He doesn't seem like the best "fit" for us right now
Although he is a good player

I understand that. But again, plus/minus is one general category. Goals can be lucky. In fact, a lot of goals can be lucky.

Shots are shots. Even if a few dump in's hit the goalie, those are a few of 100+ per game. A lucky goal can be 25% of the amount of goals scored that game.
- sbroads24

That would be a nice point if it wasn't for the fact that Corsi factors shots that miss the net and shots that are blocked. Fenwick takes into account shots that miss the net. The combination of bad shot attempts (aka Corsi and Fenwick) account for much more than 25% of their numbers.

I understand that. But again, plus/minus is one general category. Goals can be lucky. In fact, a lot of goals can be lucky.

Shots are shots. Even if a few dump in's hit the goalie, those are a few of 100+ per game. A lucky goal can be 25% of the amount of goals scored that game.
- sbroads24

And shots against are more a product of the system u run than whether or not "player x" did a good or poor job

Shots also come from the points or wings or high slot ALL the time
Rare that a defenseman are directly responsible for those shots

Seriously...
watch a game & pick out every shot that's Risto's fault

List them
I bet it's a small handful...
if even that

It should be be given any more weight than +\-
It's a team stat, not individual

U continue to not explain how it's Risto's fault a shot goes on net even when it's not his guy & he does his job right
- jdfitz77

So let's say the Sabres have the Canucks hemmed in their zone. We take 10 shots, Markstrom makes a couple great saved, Canucks come down the ice, take 1 shot, and it's deflected off our defender and goes in.

That deflected shot that gives our players a minus is just as valuable to measure how the team or individual is playing than the two minutes and multiple shot attempts taken at the other end? Get out of here

And shots against are more a product of the system u run than whether or not "player x" did a good or poor job

Shots also come from the points or wings or high slot ALL the time
Rare that a defenseman are directly responsible for those shots

Seriously...
watch a game & pick out every shot that's Risto's fault

List them
I bet it's a small handful...
if even that
- jdfitz77

I would argue that teams with a higher ratio between SOGs and Corsi/Fenwick are playing better defensively since they are letting a lower percent of shots to reach the net. Teams that have a ratio closer to 1 would be allowing a higher percentage of shots to actually reach the net. But that would still be a team based number, and not a strong indicator of an individual's performance.

For what... 2 games?!
The kid isn't ready for top4 minutes on a playoff team
NO WAY

Rushing it is stupid

And if I'm wrong & he is THAT good...
having him on the 3rd pair would make us that much stronger
- jdfitz77

He almost made the team LAST season out of camp, he should have made the team THIS season but Murray brought in Kulikov and some cheap vets.

Yes small sample size plus his preseason games where he showed he belonged.

If he is on the 3rd pair who is on the 2nd pair is what I am getting at.

Why can't he come in and play with McCabe on the 2nd? That leaves Bogo to play a more offensive type role on the 3rd pairing (against lesser competition mind you) and be pretty useful at it.

You're making it seem like I am playing Guhle with Risto for 30 minutes a game.

I've been saying it all year and for parts of last year as well...with each passing day my cry becomes louder and more accepted by the sheepish masses....FIRE DAN BYLSMA!

He almost made the team LAST season out of camp, he should have made the team THIS season but Murray brought in Kulikov and some cheap vets.

Yes small sample size plus his preseason games where he showed he belonged.

If he is on the 3rd pair who is on the 2nd pair is what I am getting at.

Why can't he come in and play with McCabe on the 2nd? That leaves Bogo to play a more offensive type role on the 3rd pairing (against lesser competition mind you) and be pretty useful at it.

You're making it seem like I am playing Guhle with Risto for 30 minutes a game.
- Stripes77

He was going to get at least a 9 game stint if it wasnt for a concussion.

Everyone thought that the the two tanks would solve all our ills. I thought Buffalo hockey fans were supposed to be smarter than that, well the older generation was but the now generation has no patience, they want results immediately, if not sooner.

The failings of this team is not what firing Bylsma can cure. He is in the 2nd half of his 2nd year with a ton of dead weight, a porous D, weak on the wings, and even though a few believe experience doesn't matter, two of their best players are in their 2nd years and I hate to break the news but experience does matter, just listen to the rantngs of Lehner last night. Experienced teams fall back to their structure when the heat is on or they are tired, inexperienced teams try to deke their way to a loss.

I wish Sabres fans were as smart as we used to be touted as and not as reactionary.

Everyone thought that the the two tanks would solve all our ills. I thought Buffalo hockey fans were supposed to be smarter than that, well the older generation was but the now generation has no patience, they want results immediately, if not sooner.

The failings of this team is not what firing Bylsma can cure. He is in the 2nd half of his 2nd year with a ton of dead weight, a porous D, weak on the wings, and even though a few believe experience doesn't matter, two of their best players are in their 2nd years and I hate to break the news but experience does matter, just listen to the rantngs of Lehner last night. Experienced teams fall back to their structure when the heat is on or they are tired, inexperienced teams try to deke their way to a loss.

I wish Sabres fans were as smart as we used to be touted as and not as reactionary.
- GilPerreault11

I find that sentence kind of funny. My experience with the team has shown me older folks are tired of waiting for them to become good again, and want to do a knee jerk reaction to improve them.

Breaking news from Nashville!
I have a significant other and yes she is a woman.
No more hookers and blow.
Well, no more hookers anyway.
Carry on with your day.
- jochfr

Checkin FB to confirm... Will report shortly.

Checkin FB to confirm... Will report shortly.
- cabin

No need, it is an alternative fact.

I find that sentence kind of funny. My experience with the team has shown me older folks are tired of waiting for them to become good again, and want to do a knee jerk reaction to improve them.
- Mentalorgasm5

My experience is Millenials think real life is like XBox and trades and firings can be made very easily and boom, we have a new team.

No need, it is an alternative fact.
- Mentalorgasm5

Good observation . I shouldn't have missed it .

My experience is Millenials think real life is like XBox and trades and firings can be made very easily and boom, we have a new team.
- GilPerreault11

I dont think any of us outside gerbe really believe that. I dont even think he does i just think he's pissed