If Jack thinks that Lehner is criticizing him, I still maintain that Jack feels guilty about the way he played. There's no reason for him to think that Lehner's comments are about him otherwise.
- HonkFortheGoose

all signs point to jack's play last night...even in defense of himself he said that he is what he is and plays the way he plays

What 365 (and you right now) are saying makes sense. He's not bad in his own end, but he does excel a bit more in other areas. So why not take a guy that's a bit more of a stay at home grind it out type guy and give him those minutes in the D zone and utilize Risto in other situations that he'd be better served in while also being able to reduce his overall ice time. It makes perfect sense.

That's not to say he can't ever play on the PK or whatever, but if you can manage to get his TOI down so that his overall game doesn't plummet in the middle of the season, it's something that should for sure be done.
- HonkFortheGoose

I eagerly await the day we acquire a good to great d-man..

I don't think +/- means much
- sbroads24

*shrugs*

nor do faceoffs...nor do special teams...

the only things that matter are what supports our particular point of view at the time of the discussion

all signs point to jack's play last night...even in defense of himself he said that he is what he is and plays the way he plays
- Michael Pachla

And sometimes, especially with guys like him, you have to take the games where that happens and just let them go.

But Lehner has been hung out to dry far too frequently lately and has bailed the team out quite a few times recently (the TO game Saturday being the most recent example). He's allowed to voice his displeasure, IMO. The media doesn't have any problem calling the goalies out when they play poorly, but tend to walk on egg shells around Eichel. Probably gets a bit old after awhile.

*shrugs*

nor do faceoffs...nor do special teams...

the only things that matter are what supports our particular point of view at the time of the discussion
- Michael Pachla

I think +/- is more of a 5 man unit thing than individual player stat.

*shrugs*

nor do faceoffs...nor do special teams...

the only things that matter are what supports our particular point of view at the time of the discussion
- Michael Pachla

Nah, I have had this point of view for a long time. You won't ever see me reference +/-.

*shrugs*

nor do faceoffs...nor do special teams...

the only things that matter are what supports our particular point of view at the time of the discussion
- Michael Pachla

This comment is pretty funny considering you stuck up for Bogo the game he was a -5.

Or does +/- just support your particular point of view at this point of the discussion?

Not necessarily. They may have just had a slightly higher asking price knowing that the 1st was an option. Since it wasn't, because Murray had already moved it, it's not like they were trying to compensate for Murray not wanting to give it up.
- HonkFortheGoose

In the same regard...
if we had the 1st available, Murray could've said no

If you're going to argue they'd want a higher pick if available,
U also have to accept that one of the other pieces would've been less

Obviously none of us KNOW
but that is what would seem to make sense

Nah, I have had this point of view for a long time. You won't ever see me reference +/-.
- sbroads24

it can be useful if you look at it in comparison to the rest of the guys on a team, but not so much from one team to the next.

Good teams tend to have more players on the + side, whereas bad would be -. Where it can be useful on a player by player basis is when a particular player stands out against the rest of the team. Like a player with a large + number on a really poor team or vice versa. Otherwise, it doesn't paint a fairly accurate picture as a stand alone stat.

I don't think +/- means much
- sbroads24

I am not trying to being a Richard. But I would like someone, such as yourself, whom is a big supporter analytics, explain to me why they don't think plus/minus is a justifiable stat yet Corsi and Fenwick are relevant.

Minnesota has to trade a Dman in the offseaon due to the expansion draft. Would anyone do Nick Baptiste, 2017 Minnesota's 2nd round pick, and 2018 2nd round pick for LHD Jonas Brodin?
- Mentalorgasm5

Yeah, sure
But I'd rather it be Fasching that we give up

I think +/- is more of a 5 man unit thing than individual player stat.
- Sabresfan-365

This same argument could be made for Corsi and Fenwick.

I am not trying to being a Richard. But I would like someone, such as yourself, whom is a big supporter analytics, explain to me why they don't think plus/minus is a justifiable stat yet Corsi and Fenwick are relevant.
- Mentalorgasm5

http://www.arcticicehocke...worst-statistic-in-hockey

This same argument could be made for Corsi and Fenwick.
- Mentalorgasm5

Absoultely, but its still a step up from plus-minus

doesn't get talked about as much but yay or nay on John Carlson?

doesn't get talked about as much but yay or nay on John Carlson?
- Sabresfan-365

I wouldn't be opposed. He's kind of one of those guys that generally flies under the radar most of the time, and when it comes to defensemen, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I'd do it depending on what the price is. I wouldn't give up Reinhart for him.

This comment is pretty funny considering you stuck up for Bogo the game he was a -5.

Or does +/- just support your particular point of view at this point of the discussion?
- sbroads24

bogo was an easy goat in that one...just like lehner and kane have been in the past

Absoultely, but its still a step up from plus-minus
- Sabresfan-365

800 steps up

I wouldn't be opposed. He's kind of one of those guys that generally flies under the radar most of the time, and when it comes to defensemen, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I'd do it depending on what the price is. I wouldn't give up Reinhart for him.
- HonkFortheGoose

yea thats what i figure the price would be but with him i dont know. Im being picky here but Id want the LHD partnered with risto to be a bit more defensive. Make the big puck moving d-man trade for the other pair on the right side and roll 2 pairs at a decent amount of minutes.

http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2014/6/5/5602668/why-plus-minus-is-the-worst-statistic-in-hockey
- Sabresfan-365

http://thehockeywriters.c...i-an-overrated-statistic/

it can be useful if you look at it in comparison to the rest of the guys on a team, but not so much from one team to the next.

Good teams tend to have more players on the + side, whereas bad would be -. Where it can be useful on a player by player basis is when a particular player stands out against the rest of the team. Like a player with a large + number on a really poor team or vice versa. Otherwise, it doesn't paint a fairly accurate picture as a stand alone stat.
- HonkFortheGoose

Good teams have more + players because they win more games then they lose. So they score more goals then they give up....sooo plus minus is obviously better then .500 or losing teams

http://thehockeywriters.com/corsi-an-overrated-statistic/
- ImThatGuy

I agree, they're both flawed when viewed simply on their own.

I don't think +/- means much
- sbroads24

So +\- for goals doesn't mean much...
but when it comes to shots it does?

Huh?

Good teams have more + players because they win more games then they lose. So they score more goals then they give up....sooo plus minus is obviously better then .500 or losing teams
- Bullfrog77

Right...


that's what i said.....

I agree, they're both flawed when viewed simply on their own.
- Sabresfan-365

Absolutely.