Benning seems to have come to the conclusion it's time to build thru the draft. Hopefully he sticks with that train of thought.
- LeftCoaster

I think he knew that when be said fill the age gap then draft & develop.
He further stated lately the age gap is done & time to keep picks.
In 2018 the old slate is totally cleaned & its all JB's team.

You have opinions on moves, picks, drafting etc. which means you have an opinion. You full of poop if you're gonna sit there and tell me you don't comment on hockey business.
- LeftCoaster

Its Ok I own depends

16 regulation wins in 60 games so far.
How the ***k can any team still be in playoff hunt with that abysmal stat.
Bettman continues to sucker us in.

Just a point of view on my part as I enjoy bantering back and forth on the team. To put it in the absolute simplistic form, I think Benning (frank)ed up from the get-go.....and I'll never change that opinion.
- LeftCoaster

Never? Oh come on... you are not that arrogant. These things can still play out differently and they are tied into what Benning did in the beginning.

What if JV comes around and with other future parts, gives us 8/10 years of exciting physical hockey and makes a difference?

So he traded away one of those prospects from his first draft...What if Gudbransson lives up to his reputation and meshes in with our young core and is everything people who know him have said he is with leadership, character, and heart and soul but McCann just ends up being a not hard to obtain generic depth offensive player that GM's like Brian Burke just give away(Granlund?)

What if trading Lack and signing Miller turns into a solid D man in Brisbois? It's a long shot but Miller could be moved for a pick.

When I sit here and look at the "should haves".... I see way more Mike Gillis. Time will tell on the JB "should have's". Take care of that crystal ball. Not many people have the privalidge of owning one.

Never? Oh come on... you are not that arrogant. These things can still play out differently and they are tied into what Benning did in the beginning.

What if JV comes around and with other future parts, gives us 8/10 years of exciting physical hockey and makes a difference?

So he traded away one of those prospects from his first draft...What if Gudbransson lives up to his reputation and meshes in with our young core and is everything people who know him have said he is with leadership, character, and heart and soul but McCann just ends up being a not hard to obtain generic depth offensive player that GM's like Brian Burke just give away(Granlund?)

What if trading Lack and signing Miller turns into a solid D man in Brisbois? It's a long shot but Miller could be moved for a pick.

When I sit here and look at the "should haves".... I see way more Mike Gillis. Time will tell on the JB "should have's". Take care of that crystal ball. Not many people have the privalidge of owning one.

- boonerbuck

Please name even 3 forwards who have his AHL stats through 40+ games that have gone on to have that kind of a career?

Gudbranson has played 300+ games, it's safe to assume that he is what he is at this point. He's probably a better player than what he's shown in Vancouver, but he's not some top 4 dman who can anchor a pairing. Yet Florida traded him because he was asking to be paid like one. If we're blindly trusting professional GM's here then doesn't it raise a red flag that Florida's GM traded a young dman like that instead of signing him?


Also, people need to stop forgetting about the pick that Benning traded with McCann for Gudbranson, it wasn't a straight up deal so it's unfair to evaluate it as one.

you and Vantel seem to forget you have strong opinions too, so I guess you should run a team as well? It works both ways. Opinion boards are for just that, share your opinion. If you just want to talk to people with a shared opinion you should get a room.
- LeftCoaster

you have opinions I don't. I offer only facts

I don't think it's unrealistic at all, is it a guarantee, of course not, but it's not like it hasn't been done before.

Teams do a tear-down when it's time, when you have the foresight to know it's time, your record has nothing to do with it, at least it shouldn't.
- LeftCoaster

Sometimes, not often, teams do a teardown when it's time Lefty.

It's unrealistic because GM's don't do it often for reasons you don't acknowledge. You are blindly arguing why it shouldnt be unrealstic. I can easily agree with that idea. If it were as realistic as you think, then all teams would be rolling through the teardown constantly. Hell, they have their teardowns planned out on calenders...

Reading this thread has given me dizzying dose of deja vu.

Never? Oh come on... you are not that arrogant. These things can still play out differently and they are tied into what Benning did in the beginning.

What if JV comes around and with other future parts, gives us 8/10 years of exciting physical hockey and makes a difference?

So he traded away one of those prospects from his first draft...What if Gudbransson lives up to his reputation and meshes in with our young core and is everything people who know him have said he is with leadership, character, and heart and soul but McCann just ends up being a not hard to obtain generic depth offensive player that GM's like Brian Burke just give away(Granlund?)

What if trading Lack and signing Miller turns into a solid D man in Brisbois? It's a long shot but Miller could be moved for a pick.

When I sit here and look at the "should haves".... I see way more Mike Gillis. Time will tell on the JB "should have's". Take care of that crystal ball. Not many people have the privalidge of owning one.

- boonerbuck

Never....it has nothing to do with arrogance, it's just an opinion. I'll always feel like they should've build thru the draft starting in 2014. Bottom out and try to acquire as many picks as possible.

I'm not expecting Jim Benning to produce immediate success, I've said it a million times I think he's done a poor job from a process perspective, I wish he'd have started a rebuild when he got here.

There seems to be this misconception that I want the team to be good, I've never said anything to indicate I want results out there right now, I want a culture shift, I want them to bottom out and build from the ground up. I'm not dumb, I know that takes years, I'm in on that though.

The points thing in today's system is just too much of a wildcard, you could get an extra 6-8 points because you've got a good shootout guy, does that mean you're a better team....not imo.

I do agree you should be able to find 40 point players to replace them, easier said than done though.
- LeftCoaster

What does that practically look like? How do you realistically get that done?

Never....it has nothing to do with arrogance, it's just an opinion. I'll always feel like they should've build thru the draft starting in 2014. Bottom out and try to acquire as many picks as possible.
- LeftCoaster

Thats fine if u can explain how to get out from under all those NMC & NTC's

Sometimes, not often, teams do a teardown when it's time Lefty.

It's unrealistic because GM's don't do it often for reasons you don't acknowledge. You are blindly arguing why it shouldnt be unrealstic. I can easily agree with that idea. If it were as realistic as you think, then all teams would be rolling through the teardown constantly. Hell, they have their teardowns planned out on calenders...

- boonerbuck

I think you're completely out of touch with your thinking, since the inception of the salary cap (2006) several uncompetitive teams have used the draft to bottom out and rebuild. What happened before that is irrelevant, the rules are different now.

LC i'm with u on what would have been nice to do but idk if that was realistic.
In 2018 we r free from binding contracts to the degree we can proceed properly.

What does that practically look like? How do you realistically get that done?
- Nuck4U

I think if you read the thread and use some common sense, you'll find your answer.

Was not a difficult task for the Leafs with no D or goalie.
- Nighthawk

Or not falling two spots in the draft and not being able to take Matthews or Laine...



I wonder how the Sportsnet guys would write their piece on the "You Are Doing It Wrong" when we were playing the Leafs this season if it were us with Matthews and they picked PULJUJARVI instead? With absolutely nothing being done different, it could have played out that way.

Post Sedins... Matthews, Horvat, Sutter, Gaunce or other prospect down the middle after the Sedins. Would that still be "doing it wrong"? Would Toronto after trading a 1st for a vet to win now and falling two spots and not having a 1st line C in the pipeline be still considered "doing it right still"? Perspectives would be different with nothing being done different.

I hate it but everything could be a hell of a lot different with some good luck, and not nearly as bad if we didnt have bad luck.

LC i'm with u on what would have been nice to do but idk if that was realistic.
In 2018 we r free from binding contracts to the degree we can proceed properly.
- Nighthawk

Hopefully we'll see a shift towards that train of thought this spring.

Hopefully we'll see a shift towards that train of thought this spring.
- LeftCoaster

I'd set the odds that will happen

Please name even 3 forwards who have his AHL stats through 40+ games that have gone on to have that kind of a career?

Gudbranson has played 300+ games, it's safe to assume that he is what he is at this point. He's probably a better player than what he's shown in Vancouver, but he's not some top 4 dman who can anchor a pairing. Yet Florida traded him because he was asking to be paid like one. If we're blindly trusting professional GM's here then doesn't it raise a red flag that Florida's GM traded a young dman like that instead of signing him?


Also, people need to stop forgetting about the pick that Benning traded with McCann for Gudbranson, it wasn't a straight up deal so it's unfair to evaluate it as one.
- Nucker101

Don't you cheer for Flyers now?

Or not falling two spots in the draft and not being able to take Matthews or Laine...



I wonder how the Sportsnet guys would write their piece on the "You Are Doing It Wrong" when we were playing the Leafs this season if it were us with Matthews and they picked PULJUJARVI instead? With absolutely nothing being done different, it could have played out that way.

Post Sedins... Matthews, Horvat, Sutter, Gaunce or other prospect down the middle after the Sedins. Would that still be "doing it wrong"? Would Toronto after trading a 1st for a vet to win now and falling two spots and not having a 1st line C in the pipeline be still considered "doing it right still"? Perspectives would be different with nothing being done different.

I hate it but everything could be a hell of a lot different with some good luck, and not nearly as bad if we didnt have bad luck.
- boonerbuck

yup.

Now we have to listen to the TorontoSportsNetwork dedicate 10 mins of Matthews breaking glass in practice. Or Almost half of their 1hr show dedicated to his 1st game. It's intolerable. There are other cities in Canada.

I don't hate Leaf fans. I'm happy for them. they went thru a lot of pain and finally got the right management group in there to do a proper rebuild. Sure there was some luck. But what I can't stand is the media coverage. It's all about T.O. and nobody else.

Don't you cheer for Flyers now?
- VANTEL

Only when I feel like it

I think if you read the thread and use some common sense, you'll find your answer.
- LeftCoaster

I did. Why are you avoiding to answer? You keep talking about the past and what JB should have done. Why I bolded your statement about change.

No specifics about the present and going forward. How is this bottoming out and tear down supposed to work for the Canucks? What does that look like realistically?

No one's arguing that the Oilers/Leafs/Jets have gotten lucky in the lotto while the Canucks got screwed as usual. It's that the Canucks are going out and signing Eriksson to a contract that only a contender would make since clearly you're overpaying for the 3-4 years he'll give you before he becomes a cap anchor.

And the small poop matters. Overpaying Sbisa, overpaying Sutter, always throwing in the extra pick in trades. Trading youth for Gudbranson, who I realize is still young but is demanding a contract that's going to see him overpaid.

Having cap space allows you to bend teams over in trades. You can take on bad contracts with a year or 2 left and force them to give you a good prospect or pick instead of overpaying role players and spending to the cap. I hate the Leafs, but their management has done a textbook job with this. That's why their rebuild has been more successful so far than Edmonton/Columbus/Etc in years past.

More draft picks/prospects simply gives you higher odds of finding future core players, it's that simple. Of course some lottery luck makes a big difference, but so does good asset/cap management.
- Nucker101

Still with the Sbisa over payment. How much should have Benning paid him per season again?

The Leafs are doing a good job for what we've seen so far. Trading away first picks for vets would get you shot here though. Is it text book if the Leafs trade away another 1st rounder in less than a year with a young player/prospect to pick another vet? It sure seems like they've been hunting hard for a high end centre and/or a top 2 D... I've even heard a little chatter from inner circles myself. It's a little early to be making these claims especially when time is not given to our own management by you and Lefty. You two have uncanny hind sight and foresight. Possibly a time machine or some other kind of booth.

Great. Leafs have text books...Figure it out though. JB was not hired to do a teardown. The Sedins were here and dumping them surely wasn't on his job description. Neither was tearing the team down around them even though he did make a pretty good injection of youth into the sytem. Even when people accept this, they still soldier on thinking everything should be handled by Benning as a teardown in their arguements. Eriksson will not get in the way of that after the Sedins. He's 1 contract on a team shedding tens of millions soon. I don't think there is a team in the league who couldnt affort to pay a couple of vets after shedding the Sedins, Burrows, Miller and Edler... 30 millionish

...and no one is arguing the small poop don't matter. Often the small poop is being way over played. Often the small poop doesn't fit the posters idea... which is played off as counter-productive... but in truth, it's not... nor is his idea everything the way he thinks it is.

Fair points to be sure I just think the timeline you seem to expect seems to be well…odd. I thought we should have started moving NTC's out after the Kings pounded us in 2012 but the previous regime in MG had us trending to Flames 2.0 but it wasn't to be. After we made the PO's under Benning and Willie in their first season that also changed philosophy. A hiccup if you will...

I think that much has changed with Benning and realistically he can't accomplish in three years what it takes most teams ten years to do. Yes I agree we need another centre to potentially replace Hank but Horvat is trending there nicely and could be into bergeron-type numbers next year.

I'd play the Devils Advocate on the Sedins and say we might be actually better if they retired this year. They are basically 40-45 pt players at this point and replacing that should not be all that difficult at 2/3rds the price. Those players are readily available.

It may be simplistic like you said but if we hit 85 pts this year that to me is an improvement over the 75 of last season. Now if we hit 85 then drop back to 70-75 that's a problem which will need to be addressed. I'm all for the high pick but you have to know the powers that be want to climb in the standings with every passing season regardless of whether the Sedins are here or not.

If we somehow can hit 85 this year and shoot for 90-95 next year with Boeser here that to me is a good trend…regardless of the picks or the Sedins.
- LordHumungous

Odd, unrealistic, impatient... indeed. It should be an easy decision we are told... even if he was hired to do something else. Even if you can't move the contracts given to you... the text book says do it anyways.

It is a lot easier to trade a 30 goal Iginla making 7 mil over trading two players making a comined 14.2 mil who score 12 goals each.
- VANTEL

Id be shocked if you could move them at this point. Maybe at the deadline next season you could pick up half their salaries to try and give them a run at the cup if they were willing... Wouldnt count on a return would just do it out of respect but would be tough when you factor in all the top teams are tight up against the cap. They would be fine as a 3rd liners how could play 2nd unit PP type idea.

Slim chance that happens though.

I use that term loosely, I'm sure he's a nice guy, I just don't agree with how he conducts his business. If the owner is forcing his hand them he should just step down like Lafontaine did when he had a meddling owner.
- LeftCoaster

... and then what, let FA take over the job? Obviously, the next guy he hires will have his goals laid out for him as well.

If you accept a job with a set of marching orders set by the boss... you set out to do what you were told... so, unless you know that JB was hired and the boss didn't tell him what his goals were... then maybe consider more than one path on all these types of assertions.