All right, where to start. Oh yeah, Sbisa had all the leverage to get paid almost all of what is on his contract. He was set to get a raise under the CBA. He got what, 100 to 200k more than he was guaranteed... that's what you have been beefing over for over two years. You lost your poop over that. Everyone remembers it... but continue on.... by all means.

JB and Linden sold the retool on the fly to FA? Did FA want to teardown and they said to do it on the fly instead? I don't honestly understand... I mean, if you look at the massive investment FA just made to the core of the team,,, doesn't that sound a bit weird? Sounds like trying to stay competitive while those contracts were here would be FA's desire... wouldn't have to sell it to him.

Veteran role players would be much better if healthy. You were using last season as something to judge Sutter in the past. He was out most of the season after being traded. Looks ok this season... Guddy, out long term with injury after being traded... judged already... we are way more physical and abrasive with Dorsett in the line up... out long term... not that he's popular when he's in... but it's obvious when he and Guddy is out just how much we could use their physical play.

Injuries really played a factor in players playing over their heads. I forget who was hurt just before McCann and JV made the team but last season is an odd ball season to say players were playing in over their head like Hutton and McCann. We had an injury holocaust last season. These things all factor into it. It's not all mistake and planned out that way ahead of time. Give a rookie 9 games and he's your hottest player and you've lost a center to injury... it's going to work out like this.

Is this eraser you use one of the nice smelling white ones? I always loved them.
- boonerbuck

- Why not just qualify offer Sbisa then? Why do 2 years and give him a raise after a bad season?

- What I meant was that clearly Benning laid out and presented a plan to Aquilini before being hired, all I'm saying is that he's done a poor job of executing it.

- Dorsett is a fringe NHL player these days, you can find guys like him in FA every year. Ryan White for example this past summer. No one's afraid of him and he's not very good at anything as a hockey player outside of being fast. Benning paid a draft pick for him and then paid him handsomely for what he brings. Another prime example of a little thing that hurts the team's flexibility.

- Sutter is what he is, a 3LC who can score goals and PK, but he doesn't produce enough overall offense so be a legit top 6 player.

- I've already stated that I think Gudbranson is better than what he's shown as a Canuck so far, so I have no clue how you take that as me judging him too soon.

- Do you have anything to back up that the Canucks play better with Dorsett and/or Gudbranson in the lineup? The stats I value all suggest otherwise.

- Yeah, I agree that injuries did force the Canucks to play those 2 more than they should have last year Thats because Benning and co. have done a piss poor job of adding quality vets in the AHL who can be called up as stopgaps. Benning should have learned by know that the Canucks are more susceptible to injuries with their travel schedule, yet the organization was super thin on forwards last year and this year Utica is a mess, making it even more difficult for prospects like Virtanen to develop and gain confidence when playing with guys who aren't even highly skilled by AHL standards.

One intangible never mentioned is team character.
Do we have that &/or r we adding more?
In BO we have that already but who else can we add to him that is young?
Character is often the most overlooked quality by us posters & is & can be all
the difference between success or constant failure.

One intangible never mentioned is team character.
Do we have that &/or r we adding more?
In BO we bave that already but who else can we add to him that is young?
Character is often the most overlooked quality by us posters & is & can be all
the difference between success or constant failure.
- Nighthawk

Character is great and all, but look at all the dbags who have owned the Canucks and other teams in the playoffs. Brad Marchand, Tim Thomas, Patrick Kane, David Bolland, Dustin Brown, etc. Winning cures all.

The current Canuck roster has probably the least amount of dbags and more character than their teams of the past, but they suck compared to the teams of 5-7 years ago.

Edler was out as well too for a lot of that time. However, you are using a certain set of stats to slant reality. You are not factoring in circumstances at the time. Like raw rookie D men. Plus rookie grad Hutton to be led by wrist injured and still adjusting to team/conference Guddy. He's not a top pairing D to take all that on but was forced into that at the time. Anyway, he brings certain aspects to the D that balances his value. It's beyond fancy stats. Time will tell how that works out.
- Nuck4U

Fancy Analytics & stats r fine n dandy if ppl luv raw numbers.
Too many factors & mitigating cicumstances tell the full story.

- So should we not criticize the Canucks brass for not being able to keep JV in shape or criticize them for not doing their homework on the kid's attitude?

- Gudbranson can be the best locker room guy ever, doesn't make him worth paying 4.5M+, and again, show me examples of a dman suddenly taking a clear step up after already playing 300+ NHL games? That's a very rare occurrence, he most likely is what he is at this point. Physically he's mature, mentally he's had tons of games of experience.

- Benning's in his 3rd year, at what point are fans allowed to criticize him? The majority of our players on the roster and in the farm system have all been acquired by him. I never saw these posts from you under Nonis/Gillis. I get that he's a professional, but there have been plenty of bad GM's in professional sports, just because they got hired, doesn't automatically mean that they're good at their jobs.
- Nucker101

So, now the shift from our argument goes to drafting success? I don't know why I'm going to debate this with someone who writes off prospects as quickly as you but I'll give it a little time...Management and JV's own team-mates have been trying to get through to him. Maybe the scouting should have been aware he was going to party too much as a 19/20 year old... Pretty hard to scout underage guys clubbing habits though,,,, don't you think? Not very realistic. If he was actually getting into trouble like Kassian... well, that's a different story altogether. He's not like that as far as we can see...

There's a difference with Guddy. He was 23 when they traded for him. Do you want me to show you any examples of 23 year old defensemen still improving in the NHL? Whats the average age for a Dman to hit 300 games I wonder? So, typically I'd agree with you... if we are looking at someone who hits 300 games at 25/26/27,,, much less so.

Who says no one is allowed to criticize Benning? I wish people would not say that all the time. Maybe express opinions where people can't reply... I don't know. I don't want you leaving again because people disagree with you on here. Just try and live with it. It's not an invasion of your right to opinionate yourself...


Are you trying to prevent me from having a opinion by disagreeing with it? No, I don't feel that way.

Being hired doesnt automaticly make them good at their jobs, I agree. His job would be much easier if he had your hind sight and forsight abilities though. Even after all his years of scouting and being part of NHL management teams... he still can't do it as good as you I guess...

woah



So you're saying puck possession is what really matters?
- Nucker101

It all does. Good teams usually have the puck more to score or keep up the pressure to score. Then in support of dominance you have hitting. Timely hits are huge. Sends a message. Changes energy of the Game. It can create space, keep players away from the net or on the perimiter. That's something Guddy can bring.

Character is great and all, but look at all the dbags who have owned the Canucks and other teams in the playoffs. Brad Marchand, Tim Thomas, Patrick Kane, David Bolland, Dustin Brown, etc. Winning cures all.

The current Canuck roster has probably the least amount of dbags and more character than their teams of the past, but they suck compared to the teams of 5-7 years ago.
- Nucker101

Marchand is payed well for what he does.
Thomas was exiled after 1 great cup run.
Kane was a 1OA something we have never had.
Bolland is well Bolland....overpaid nobody.
Brown is now an anchor.

Of those 5 I'd say only Thomas led his team on his back to a cup.
Kane had lots of help.
Marchand simply is a pesky good player.

How so? The defense doesn't look any worse at all without him. You'd hope his loss would be more felt if you're planning to pay him top 4 dman money. Weird that Garrison/Hamhuis was criticized for being inconsistent and struggling against speed, but yet it's fine when Gudbranson struggled in similar fashion.
- Nucker101

He struggled, yes. Playing hurt at times and a new poopty team... and please tell me how that means there is no culture change by adding him since that is what you just quoted me saying only.

Culture change... a guy who plays the game hard and physical... a guy without question will protect or send a message about team-mate safety. A player who steps up his game when the stakes are high like Guddy did in last years playoffs... someone who has handled big minutes when players go down... a good locker room presence... this is what I'm thinking when I say culture. You in Nucker fashion hit the bookmarks and look for stats to explain culture... always stats and salary.

Probably getting overpaid...yes,,, your biggest case for everything when your unrelated complaints get debunked.

So, now the shift from our argument goes to drafting success? I don't know why I'm going to debate this with someone who writes off prospects as quickly as you but I'll give it a little time...Management and JV's own team-mates have been trying to get through to him. Maybe the scouting should have been aware he was going to party too much as a 19/20 year old... Pretty hard to scout underage guys clubbing habits though,,,, don't you think? Not very realistic. If he was actually getting into trouble like Kassian... well, that's a different story altogether. He's not like that as far as we can see...

There's a difference with Guddy. He was 23 when they traded for him. Do you want me to show you any examples of 23 year old defensemen still improving in the NHL? Whats the average age for a Dman to hit 300 games I wonder? So, typically I'd agree with you... if we are looking at someone who hits 300 games at 25/26/27,,, much less so.

Who says no one is allowed to criticize Benning? I wish people would not say that all the time. Maybe express opinions where people can't reply... I don't know. I don't want you leaving again because people disagree with you on here. Just try and live with it. It's not an invasion of your right to opinionate yourself...


Are you trying to prevent me from having a opinion by disagreeing with it? No, I don't feel that way.

Being hired doesnt automaticly make them good at their jobs, I agree. His job would be much easier if he had your hind sight and forsight abilities though. Even after all his years of scouting and being part of NHL management teams... he still can't do it as good as you I guess...


- boonerbuck

I've missed you

- The argument is about this regime's incompetence at everything, drafting included

- By all accounts JV is in pretty decent shape now, yet he's still struggling in the AHL. Again, there's very few examples in the entire history of the NHL of a prospect going on to have a prominent career after putting up the numbers he has in the AHL so far. His issues aren't just conditioning alone.

- What exactly is Gudbranson going to suddenly improve at? He's physically mature, has played a ton of games so mentally he's pretty much gone through it all in the NHL. I don't see him getting suddenly getting way bigger/faster and he's not suddenly going to develop offensive skill.

- Everytime someone speaks out against this regime, we get hit with the same old "be patient", "he's a professional" or "why don't you be the GM then?" And then even if a poster ends up being right about something we get called a "whiner" or told "hindsight is 20/20"

That poop gets tiresome man. Apparently singing Kumbaya and only female doging about other people female doging is the only thing that flies around here these days.

- I liked the Nonis/Gillis days here, both the supporters/detractors had the types of discussions we're having now, and yes it was repetitive back then too. Tons of the same debates over Raymond, Kesler's linemates and playmking ability. If Bieksa should stay or go, if AV was a good coach or not, etc. But the difference was that we didn't have a bunch of people crying about it.

You can't disagree with that, can you?

Yeah I have seen the McCann love. Well it's more about keeping all picks and developing them for the next several years. That was his beef.

But my focus was not on the past. He said they need to change now. Bottom out and do a tear down now.

So instead of giving a direct answer with specifics on how that realistically works he says it's obvious. I don't get how he sees that happening?
- Nuck4U

Fair to assume that I guess because it is true, but Lefty was saying how much he likes McCann and how much he doesn't like Guddy just recently when we played the Panthers and not the first time he's stated that this season.

It all does. Good teams usually have the puck more to score or keep up the pressure to score. Then in support of dominance you have hitting. Timely hits are huge. Sends a message. Changes energy of the Game. It can create space, keep players away from the net or on the perimiter. That's something Guddy can bring.
- Nuck4U

The Pens r a speed team who hit & support puck retrieval as needed.
An EG clears space in front of the net to give goalies a good look at shots.
Come playoffs net front presence & garbage goals r a staple of many teams.
We can clean up that & work on other details as our talent permits.
Puck moving D & a much much better PP r what we need to improve.
The kids coming up can mesh easier once we get an all around system in place.
Partly why WD likes rolling 4 lines is to keep everyone involved on the same path.
Problem is our depth is not suitable enough for that yet when top 6 production has been a sore spot. This is where drafting & developing will help us eventully.

He'd probably look a lot better if he had Brian Campbell as his partner again. To play in the top 4, he needs someone who can anchor the pairing. Hutton wasn't ready for it and so they struggled. Hutton actually looks a lot better without him though.
- Nucker101

The Hutton/Guddy experiment was a failure. Neither guy is good for the other out there. It didn't help the situation with how much self praising they were doing in training camp. This idea that Hutton would roam while Guddy buttoned up the back end was a joke. No coach is going to play them that loose anyways.

https://www.sportingchart...team-hit-statistics/2016/

Kings are 1st in hits per game, 22nd in the standings

Coyotes are 2nd in hits per game, but 2nd last in the league

Flyers are 5th in hits per game, yet 18th in the standings

Hawks dead last in hits, 6th in the league

Wild 29th in hits per game, yet 2nd in the league
- Nucker101

Is this another argument of yours on how culture change is all about stats?

The league is trending to 3 line scoring even though teams struggle with 2 line scoring. Players like Sutter who can score 20 as a 3C will be valuable once we deepen our top 6 scoring with results. New prospects should be able to cut their teeth on the 3rd line & grow into their offensive potential. This draft & BB & hopefully Gaudette & JV will further us along in the next 1-3yrs.

Well your point is 100% moot?!?!



The larger the team (LA) the harder it is for the home team to hide hits. This is basic stuff.


"Team Hits" mean nothing. http://www.jacketscannon....-statistic-vs-the-reality

"
- Beatle_john

The Hutton experiment was a failure. Neither guy is good for the other out there. It didn't help the situation with how much self praising they were doing in training camp. This idea that Hutton would roam while Guddy buttoned up the back end was a joke. No coach is going to play them that loose anyways.
- boonerbuck

Yeah, but the idea that Gudbranson needs to be paired with a good puck mover makes sense to me.

My other theory on why that pairing was doomed from the beginning was that Hutton apparently added another 5+ pounds of weight over the off-season and obviously was going to have to adjust to it, and Gudbranson was going to have to adjust to a whole new organization.

Is this another argument of yours on how culture change is all about stats?

- boonerbuck

Not really, just that hits as a stat are overvalued by some posters around here.

The Hutton experiment was a failure. Neither guy is good for the other out there. It didn't help the situation with how much self praising they were doing in training camp. This idea that Hutton would roam while Guddy buttoned up the back end was a joke. No coach is going to play them that loose anyways.
- boonerbuck

Its only Huttons soph season & we can expect some more experimenting.
The D pairings have been such a mish mash for 2 seasons its tough to say whats best & what the pairings should be. Tail end of this season be nice if he gets settled in.

Booner u pen some good history & explain it well.
If ppl relaxed a bit & live in the present they will see better times r ahead.
How much & how soon is too early to call but it will happen.
Each year that we draft & develop properly is one more year we r better off.
We have never been in this type of position in our history so lets keep an open mind.
2017 we should be expecting more consistency & real improvement.
2018 is the year of judgement where as all the prospects make their mark.
Beyond that it'll define if JB is on the right path or fired. I say he doing fine.
Only LE will have a large contract as an older vet freeing up cap for RFA's now/later.
Cap management will always be most important with drafting only enhancing us.
As we currently stand our cap is good & prospects r encouraging with more to come.
- Nighthawk

Thanks man. You are one of the more rational ones yourself...

Yeah, but the idea that Gudbranson needs to be paired with a good puck mover makes sense to me.

My other theory on why that pairing was doomed from the beginning was that Hutton apparently added another 5+ pounds of weight over the off-season and obviously was going to have to adjust to it, and Gudbranson was going to have to adjust to a whole new organization.
- Nucker101

Next season & fresh start will give us a better look at where we stand.
This season was not important in the big picture EG PO's.
It was a season to see growth & progress. Sven & Granny & BO emerged.
Next year again the PP & PK must improve a ton.
Depth & scoring upfront r still a work in progress but I'm fairly optimistic.

Thanks man. You are one of the more rational ones yourself...

- boonerbuck

Thx but i do have my moments of slipping 😂😂
Being competitive in sports & coaching a long with being a poolie of some good success i see things in a different light than others maybe. I'm all about character & the teams collective will & commitment as the decisive means to winning. I luv talent as much as the next fan but i'm not blinded by it.

Current Canucks i see as leading in character r;

BO, Sutter, EG, Edler, Burrows, Hansen.
Sedins r too but in their twilight years.
BB by all a counts fits the mold

Current Canucks i see as leading in character r;

BO, Sutter, EG, Edler, Burrows, Hansen.
Sedins r too but in their twilight years.
BB by all a counts fits the mold
- Nighthawk

Explains why the team doesn't quit and the heart Carol brought up in blog.

Explains why the team doesn't quit and the heart Carol brought up in blog.
- Nuck4U

We are finally on the right path..... Philly does not have a window.... they are also-rans from day 1.