But they didn't get 3rd or 4th, they got the first overall so it worked.
- LeftCoaster

I prefer a way that doesn't rely solely on luck.

Does it really matter? The object is to win the Cup, not get 90 points, Toronto isn't even close to that, agree? It's even debateable if they're that much ahead of us seeing as this is a weird year with expansion and the Canadiens, Bruins, Senators all having down years.
- DariusKnight

Of course it matters, in professional sports results matter! We are talking about progress here not winning a cup, winning a cup is down the line once you reach a certain level, you've got to walk before you run.

Tanking is the process with which you start to head down the path to win a Stanley Cup, you've got to start with step 1 step two step three and work your way up.

Of course it matters, in professional sports results matter! We are talking about progress here not winning a cup, winning a cup is down the line once you reach a certain level, you've got to walk before you run.

Tanking is the process with which you start to head down the path to win a Stanley Cup, you've got to start with step 1 step two step three and work your way up.
- LeftCoaster

In our case we look to 2018 for results.
2017 is the end of an era...
2019 progress should be in top gear.
The tanking process has been doing ok to date with 2-3 more top picks in coming drafts.

Of course it matters, in professional sports results matter! We are talking about progress here not winning a cup, winning a cup is down the line once you reach a certain level, you've got to walk before you run.

Tanking is the process with which you start to head down the path to win a Stanley Cup, you've got to start with step 1 step two step three and work your way up.
- LeftCoaster

Tell that to Oilers, Buffalo, Carolina, etc. Oilers are only trending up because of sheer luck in getting McDavid. Otherwise they still suck. Buffalo is trending up at a snails pace, same with Carolina.

Of course it matters, in professional sports results matter! We are talking about progress here not winning a cup, winning a cup is down the line once you reach a certain level, you've got to walk before you run.

Tanking is the process with which you start to head down the path to win a Stanley Cup, you've got to start with step 1 step two step three and work your way up.
- LeftCoaster

My advice is enjoy the process. Today was big , we were finally able to move a long time core player before the TDL. We got a decent return .

We will get a high pick this year which will add to the future. We have some prospects that are turning ripe. We should get two good second round picks and a fairly young team now.

I imagine we will make a big trade this year for a top six forward , so buckle in and have fun.

Of course they are ahead of us. That's subject to so many other reasons. Just like this idea that Benning couldn't recognize this and that in comparison... subject to so many other things. How do you compare the Leafs and the Canucks on the same time frame?.... and what pisses me off is the amount of hypocrisy in your beat down on your own team. It's not jealousy like you are playing it off... sounds like you have the envy if you are going to spin it so hard. "Why can't we be like Toronto" has been dripping from your posts for a year now... fair enough,,, but the Shanaplan is not what you've been claiming it is. That cannot be denied.

We had this discussion before. What makes you think Shanahan wasn't hired to rebuild? He claimed he would only take the job to do it his way. OK, fine. So he doesn't want interference when he does his job. Even I recognized Toronto needed a rebuild going back every season since before Sundin left. It's a jump to think Shanahan showed up on the Leafs door step with this brilliant revelation that the Leafs needed to rebuild and the owner had to be convinced. I've taken those comments as "I'm rebuilding my way".... which is much more rational...
- boonerbuck

Shanhan: I'm going to rebuild my way...

Toronto Media: OMG! Shanahan is going to save the franchise! Multiple Cups in our future! Every player drafted is going to be a superstar! Matthews is better than Crosby or McDavid!

Benning: We are going to try and stay competitive and try to make the playoffs while integrating young talent in a winning environment.

Vancouver Media: OMG! What a moron! How dare he not come out and say we suck and are going to suck! How dare he trade picks for young players already developed when we could wait years for those picks to develop! How dare he try to address the lack of talent in the 22-24 age range! How dare he hang on to vets and not let himself be raped by other GMs because the players he wants to trade have NTCs and don't want to move! How dare he draft Virtanen! Anyone would have been better! So what if we didn't have a potential top 6 power forward in our system! We should have gotten Ehlers, another perimeter player like so many of the rest of the team! How dare he try to address physicality and grit and net presence! How dare he pass over Tkachuk and go for a defenseman with top pairing, maybe even #1D potential! We don't need it! Let's forget the fact that save for Horvat, we have no real playmaking center like Monohan or Bennett or even clean up rebounds for Gaudreau! It doesn't matter! Benning sucks! He and Trevor Linden should be burned in effigy! AHHHHHHHHH!

Of course they are ahead of us. That's subject to so many other reasons. Just like this idea that Benning couldn't recognize this and that in comparison... subject to so many other things. How do you compare the Leafs and the Canucks on the same time frame?.... and what pisses me off is the amount of hypocrisy in your beat down on your own team. It's not jealousy like you are playing it off... sounds like you have the envy if you are going to spin it so hard. "Why can't we be like Toronto" has been dripping from your posts for a year now... fair enough,,, but the Shanaplan is not what you've been claiming it is. That cannot be denied.

We had this discussion before. What makes you think Shanahan wasn't hired to rebuild? He claimed he would only take the job to do it his way. OK, fine. So he doesn't want interference when he does his job. Even I recognized Toronto needed a rebuild going back every season since before Sundin left. It's a jump to think Shanahan showed up on the Leafs door step with this brilliant revelation that the Leafs needed to rebuild and the owner had to be convinced. I've taken those comments as "I'm rebuilding my way".... which is much more rational...
- boonerbuck

But people are saying they're not ahead of us, which I totally disagree with, they are ahead of us. People here are saying we're rebuilding on the fly and we have as many good pieces as they do which is totally incorrect. At this point.

At the root of it, it's two different thought processes, one that you can rebuild and accumulate Talent on the Fly and another that you can bottom out and accumulate Talent. Preferentially I prefer the latter.

Pressure yes, but MUCH friendlier and willing to spread their message to the masses. Has it worked? That's too soon to say, the signs seem encouraging, but the proof is playoff success and they're going against the Shanaplan to try and make it. Benning says we're going to try and be competitive and make the playoffs while adding in young talent in a winning environment and you malign him for it. Trying to be competitive sure hasn't hurt our draft position much in the past couple of years now has it? We should have had the 3OA last year, we got unlucky, we'll get a top 5 pick this year as well, I don't see how the 'Shanaplan' as you call it is that much different from Benning's plan save that his message is different when the results are the same.
- DariusKnight

If we traded a 1st and a second for vets... what would Lefty say? A hell of a lot more than he said a thousand times about how bad it is trading 2nds for young players.


Toronto trades a 1st and a 2nd for vets and "they are still in a position to make the play offs, it's working".


This reminds me of the big stink he made with Vantel recently about the vets on our team and him knowing and stating in 2014 that the rebuild should start then. Claiming he was on it before most... The crazy part was in 2013, he's arguing why the Sedins and Edler needed to be resigned and we can't trade or let them walk. How do you argue resigning/keeping those guys and then claim you were one of the pioneers of the rebuild idea the following year?

He really has been selling a load of poop on rebuilds and patience. Keep calling him on it. At first, it was a difference in opinions but it's exactly like Nucker now. Spin the (frank) out of it to vent hate for the GM. I called this a couple of years ago when Lefty was starting to complain about meaningless annoyances in Benning before he was down on him. I said to him, it's the beginning. Then you will start being overly critical and then hate him regardless of what he does... it was a light-hearted comment but he still denied he was that guy.

My advice is enjoy the process. Today was big , we were finally able to move a long time core player before the TDL. We got a decent return .

We will get a high pick this year which will add to the future. We have some prospects that are turning ripe. We should get two good second round picks and a fairly young team now.

I imagine we will make a big trade this year for a top six forward , so buckle in and have fun.
- VANTEL

Tanev for top 6?

Tell that to Oilers, Buffalo, Carolina, etc. Oilers are only trending up because of sheer luck in getting McDavid. Otherwise they still suck. Buffalo is trending up at a snails pace, same with Carolina.
- Retinalz

This is one of the most unintelligent arguments, I'm sorry, it just it. Now name the teams that have won a Cup building through the draft that included top three picks .

Tanev for top 6?
- Nighthawk

It should be

If we traded a 1st and a second for vets... what would Lefty say? A hell of a lot more than he said a thousand times about how bad it is trading 2nds for young players.


Toronto trades a 1st and a 2nd for vets and "they are still in a position to make the play offs, it's working".


This reminds me of the big stink he made with Vantel recently about the vets on our team and him knowing and stating in 2014 that the rebuild should start then. Claiming he was on it before most... The crazy part was in 2013, he's arguing why the Sedins and Edler needed to be resigned and we can't trade or let them walk. How do you argue resigning/keeping those guys and then claim you were one of the pioneers of the rebuild idea the following year?

He really has been selling a load of poop on rebuilds and patience. Keep calling him on it. At first, it was a difference in opinions but it's exactly like Nucker now. Spin the (frank) out of it to vent hate for the GM. I called this a couple of years ago when Lefty was starting to complain about meaningless annoyances in Benning before he was down on him. I said to him, it's the beginning. Then you will start being overly critical and then hate him regardless of what he does... it was a light-hearted comment but he still denied he was that guy.
- boonerbuck

You're such a dippoop, they traded the 30th pick for the all import position of goaltending when they had the 1st, 30th and 31st pick.

As for the Sedins, I said you can't trade them because of what they've meant to the franchise, not because I wanted the team to be competitive

It should be
- VANTEL

We hunt for Kane or Landeskog territory then IMO LW scoring
Any others u got an 👀 on?

This is one of the most unintelligent arguments, I'm sorry, it just it. Now name the teams that have won a Cup building through the draft that included top three picks .
- LeftCoaster

Really now, name a team that's not LA/Pittsburg/Chicago that's won the Cup with a top 3 pick in the lineup. Answer? None, no team other than those 3 in the last 10 years has won a Cup with a top 3 (or multiple top 3 picks) in their lineup. Note that the teams that have had top 3 picks in the last 10 years all are still at or near the bottom of the league at this point with no hope in sight. It's not that easy to climb out of the bottom of the standings when you're so used to losing.

We hunt for Kane or Landeskog territory then IMO
Any others u got an eye on?
- Nighthawk

Kane has one year left so no wait

No to Landy


I do like Puljujarvi Neimeleinen and 2018 First for Tanev Hansen and Markstrom

This is one of the most unintelligent arguments, I'm sorry, it just it. Now name the teams that have won a Cup building through the draft that included top three picks .
- LeftCoaster

Sure, and there are teams that did not tank and won the cup (like Boston). There is no 1 way to do it, and Tanking can keep you toiling in misery. Toronto realistically is only so far ahead of us BECAUSE they had young players that could let youth develop, like Kadri, etc. We did not have that, we had aging vets that were winding down quickly. Benning filled a gap so that we can let youth develop properly and ruin them, like Oilers, etc have done to youth.

it's not the Toronto plan, like no one else has done it lol. My position has always been sell off the vets, take some down years and draft well.

I'm sorry you can't see it my way, but we'll agree to disagree. Tanking isn't set in stone, when luck is with you it can accelerate things, professional sports is a fluid business.
- LeftCoaster

Don't split hairs. You keep going on about Shanahan's plan... you know what I mean.

OK, so I don't want down years and to draft well? You are a real piece of work Lefty. You contradict the poop out of yourself and then spin it off as other people don't agree with down years and drafting. They just can't see it right?


Your model team is trading away picks. Instead of admitting you jumped the gun on what the Leaf's plan is,,,, you just stubbornly continue to spin. Did you give your password to Nucker or are you really this stubborn?

Really now, name a team that's not LA/Pittsburg/Chicago that's won the Cup with a top 3 pick in the lineup. Answer? None, no team other than those 3 in the last 10 years has won a Cup with a top 3 (or multiple top 3 picks) in their lineup. Note that the teams that have had top 3 picks in the last 10 years all are still at or near the bottom of the league at this point with no hope in sight. It's not that easy to climb out of the bottom of the standings when you're so used to losing.
- DariusKnight

They won seven of the last ten cups

Opinions seem to be really flying here again on how a wining team is built. Hard to say what really works. This way? That way? Some of it? All of it? A little of all of it?

IF there was a rule book on it every GM would follow it. Here's the thing. It seems like it all helps. It's hard to know which part to push and when. Teams don't operate in a vaccum. The competition in all areas from the play on the ice to drafting determines results from year to year. Luck helps too. Development hinges on so many of these factors.

So here's hoping JB gets all the tools at his disposal to come up big from draft picks, trades to free agents and everything in between. Maybe the team masses enough of a nexus on all these areas to turn the corner to being a winner again. That's when Cup contending moves can be made from coaching to tweeking personnel.

Whatever works. Passions run high. It's all good. This fan base deserves to get rewarded with the CUP one day soon.

Don't split hairs. You keep going on about Shanahan's plan... you know what I mean.

OK, so I don't want down years and to draft well? You are a real piece of work Lefty. You contradict the poop out of yourself and then spin it off as other people don't agree with down years and drafting. They just can't see it right?


Your model team is trading away picks. Instead of admitting you jumped the gun on what the Leaf's plan is,,,, you just stubbornly continue to spin. Did you give your password to Nucker or are you really this stubborn?
- boonerbuck

you're so clueless it's painful to reason with you!! When you have three of the first 31 picks and you get your guy at number one you may want to help yourself out by getting a goaltender!

Shanhan: I'm going to rebuild my way...

Toronto Media: OMG! Shanahan is going to save the franchise! Multiple Cups in our future! Every player drafted is going to be a superstar! Matthews is better than Crosby or McDavid!

Benning: We are going to try and stay competitive and try to make the playoffs while integrating young talent in a winning environment.

Vancouver Media: OMG! What a moron! How dare he not come out and say we suck and are going to suck! How dare he trade picks for young players already developed when we could wait years for those picks to develop! How dare he try to address the lack of talent in the 22-24 age range! How dare he hang on to vets and not let himself be raped by other GMs because the players he wants to trade have NTCs and don't want to move! How dare he draft Virtanen! Anyone would have been better! So what if we didn't have a potential top 6 power forward in our system! We should have gotten Ehlers, another perimeter player like so many of the rest of the team! How dare he try to address physicality and grit and net presence! How dare he pass over Tkachuk and go for a defenseman with top pairing, maybe even #1D potential! We don't need it! Let's forget the fact that save for Horvat, we have no real playmaking center like Monohan or Bennett or even clean up rebounds for Gaudreau! It doesn't matter! Benning sucks! He and Trevor Linden should be burned in effigy! AHHHHHHHHH!
- DariusKnight

I would jump in here but it's pretty clear you don't actually want to have a discussion.

My advice is enjoy the process. Today was big , we were finally able to move a long time core player before the TDL. We got a decent return .

We will get a high pick this year which will add to the future. We have some prospects that are turning ripe. We should get two good second round picks and a fairly young team now.

I imagine we will make a big trade this year for a top six forward , so buckle in and have fun.
- VANTEL

That's a positive way to look at it

Marwood?
- LeftCoaster

Figure it out for yourself I'm not spoon feeding you!
- LeftCoaster

You don't know what the plan is but are too stubborn to admit you got it wrong in a couple of different ways. You claimed "Toronto doesn't trade away their picks like Benning" only a couple of months after they traded a 1st for a vet. I called you on it, instead of admitting you were wrong, you spun it off as being a 2nd because it's late... well, that not true and you just finished female doging about trading 2nds a couple of posts before that ironically. Your spin landed in another contradiction.

You will go down swinging alternate facts... I'd like to say that is a good thing... but it's disappointing.

They won seven of the last ten cups
- LeftCoaster

Again, there were a lot more teams that had top 3 picks that haven't won a Cup in that time frame. Your argument is useless because only 1 team can win the Cup out of 30 (soon to be 31) teams. I agree with booner, you have such a hardon for Benning that it's like you're almost Nucker's alt. Is Benning doing a perfect job? No, of course not, but he hasn't hampered our rebuild, all he's done is try to ensure that the team has enough character guys on it to teach the young talent coming in what it means to win and what it takes to do so. We're still going to be likely picking top 5 this year, again and maybe even top 3, saying that our goal is to make the playoffs sure hasn't changed that much now has it?