Even if the GM does everything right over tje course of a 5 year rebuild, he's gonna need some luck. Think about this: 3 Centers, 4 top 9 wingers, 4 defenders and a goalie ( the rest of the players can be found easy enough)...that's 12 core players minimum. Even if after the tear down you have 5 of them in tne system, thats 7. The average quality draft program nets 1.5 players per year...so your looking at 4 draft years...plus throw in another year or two for development time...it takes 5 years with everything going right, and hope that good luck balances out the bad luck, and if everything doesnt go as planned ( injuries, busts, bad trades)...then you'll need some seriously great luck to stay on pace.
- Larsson_fan

That's kind of what I was getting at in my exchange with Sbroads. Lockdown Eichel and Sam young. Be glad you accomplished that(although Mcdavid, Matthews, Laine and maybe Marner would have all been better per se) and proceed slowly. They just didn't what this team is, is my expected result.

I was trying to find my facebook argument I got in with all my friends at the start of the season. I basically said "This team sucks. They suck until they prove they don't suck anymore". And then everyone fired back with narratives and names on paper. But ROR, but Kane, but Okposo. But Lehners healthier and so on. But those are just names and narratives. Any group of guys slapped together still has to pull up the boot straps and go prove in the real world they can match what they are on paper. This team just isn't willing to do that. No one under Terry Pegula has been willing to do that. There has never been a sense of responsibility on any team he's fielded. There's always this lingering sense that the next big offseason winning splash, stop the presses big acquisition guy will be the catalyst.

Ryan O Rielly has a bit of that in him but I agree about the other players. Crazy poop happens tho, and you have to hope to bemefit from it. Maybe someone in the west will demand a trade preferably to the East ? Maybe Kovalchuck wants to be a Sabre when he comes back?
- Larsson_fan

No. Elite players hate Buffalo. From things I've heard over the years it seems all those top tier guys don't think much of our organization. We've really poop on a lot of guys, frequently our best guys over the years and despite ownership changes we still manage to (frank) up the same.


I mean Hasek, Peca in his prime, Briere, Drury, Campbell. Pat Lafontaine may never speak to us again. We just (frank) up time after time and that poop lingers. That's why we're the masters the 'B' player signings. Okposo, Moulson, Georges, Franson. Under Pegula in particular we've loved the slam dunk on the lowered rim. We tell ourselves it was great.

Look at the great teams in the league. They don't just have an Eichel and some solid players around them. They have multiple stars.

Reinhart, Kane, ROR, Okposo are all good players. None of them are stars who can take control of games themselves
- sbroads24

Last time I checked Myers, Compher, Lemieux, Armia, Zadorov and McNabb weren't stars.

No. Elite players hate Buffalo. From things I've heard over the years it seems all those top tier guys don't think much of our organization. We've really poop on a lot of guys, frequently our best guys over the years and despite ownership changes we still manage to (frank) up the same.


I mean Hasek, Peca in his prime, Briere, Drury, Campbell. Pat Lafontaine may never speak to us again. We just (frank) up time after time and that poop lingers. That's why we're the masters the 'B' player signings. Okposo, Moulson, Georges, Franson. Under Pegula in particular we've loved the slam dunk on the lowered rim. We tell ourselves it was great.
- Buffalo--Sabres

REM - "It's the end of the world as we know it". Above.

We are going to be good, really good - next year.

Last time I checked Myers, Compher, Lemieux, Armia, Zadorov and McNabb weren't stars.
- Powerslave

And.....?

REM - "It's the end of the world as we know it". Above.

We are going to be good, really good - next year.
- SabreWest

I (frank)ing hope so. I want to see them kick some ass. And then kick some ass some more. I want them to run train on this league. I want them to earn respect of their peers and endear themselves to the fans.

And.....?
- sbroads24

And, you constantly bring up "everything" Murray gave up. These players he gave up weren't going to get us to the promised land, based on your opinion that teams have to have multiple stars.

And, you constantly bring up "everything" Murray gave up. These players he gave up weren't going to get us to the promised land, based on your opinion that teams have to have multiple stars.
- Powerslave

But we doubled down on their replacements and we are literally no better than the worst teams this league has to offer even with them.

And, you constantly bring up "everything" Murray gave up. These players he gave up weren't going to get us to the promised land, based on your opinion that teams have to have multiple stars.
- Powerslave

Has nothing to do with what players he moved, he rushed to be mediocre. We would have been a bottom 2-3 team last year picking Laine, Matthews or JP last year without ROR, Kane, etc.

Now we are up against the cap with a few pretty good players wondering if Brendan Guhle will bring us to the promise land. It's amazing really.

Has nothing to do with what players he moved, he rushed to be mediocre. We would have been a bottom 2-3 team last year picking Laine, Matthews or JP last year without ROR, Kane, etc.

Now we are up against the cap with a few pretty good players wondering if Brendan Guhle will bring us to the promise land. It's amazing really.
- sbroads24

It really is. It happened so fast.

Has nothing to do with what players he moved, he rushed to be mediocre. We would have been a bottom 2-3 team last year picking Laine, Matthews or JP last year without ROR, Kane, etc.

Now we are up against the cap with a few pretty good players wondering if Brendan Guhle will bring us to the promise land. It's amazing really.
- sbroads24

He rushed to be mediocre instead of allowing those players to simmer us to mediocrity, you mean?

And what if he does nothing except stockpile draft picks? Then everyone on here is whining up a storm that he isn't doing anything to make this team better.

Nothing that man does from here on out will make you happy.

Lehner is at or near top 5 among STARTING goalies in save percentage and all anyone wants to do is b!tch about the pick Murray gave up. This team gives up the most shots in the league, and the kid keeps us in most games, but it's the first round pick, the first round pick, the first round pick.

At least he's trying to make us better. You can't hang on to every player you draft.

He rushed to be mediocre instead of allowing those players to simmer us to mediocrity, you mean?

And what if he does nothing except stockpile draft picks? Then everyone on here is whining up a storm that he isn't doing anything to make this team better.

Nothing that man does from here on out will make you happy.

Lehner is at or near top 5 among STARTING goalies in save percentage and all anyone wants to do is b!tch about the pick Murray gave up. This team gives up the most shots in the league, and the kid keeps us in most games, but it's the first round pick, the first round pick, the first round pick.

At least he's trying to make us better. You can't hang on to every player you draft.
- Powerslave

Goals against rank : 22
Save % rank: 9
Shutouts Rank: 26
Shootout save %: .000

Has nothing to do with what players he moved, he rushed to be mediocre. We would have been a bottom 2-3 team last year picking Laine, Matthews or JP last year without ROR, Kane, etc.

Now we are up against the cap with a few pretty good players wondering if Brendan Guhle will bring us to the promise land. It's amazing really.
- sbroads24

I have zero faith in Tim Murray as a gm but most of the pieces we gave up are meh. Other than White, Compfer and maybe Roslovic

Goals against rank : 22
Save % rank: 9
Shutouts Rank: 26
Shootout save %: .000
- Buffalo--Sabres

Now take out the 3 or 4 backup or non starting goalies and he's right where I said he was

I have zero faith in Tim Murray as a gm but most of the pieces we gave up are meh. Other than White, Compfer and maybe Roslovic
- chilliard77

Exactly. Have them here last year instead of ROR and Kane and we have Laine or Matthews right now. With guys like White or Roslovic or Samsanov in the system

Now take out the 3 or 4 backup or non starting goalies and he's right where I said he was
- Powerslave

The only backup there is Darling, and he's played almost 30 games.

He rushed to be mediocre instead of allowing those players to simmer us to mediocrity, you mean?

And what if he does nothing except stockpile draft picks? Then everyone on here is whining up a storm that he isn't doing anything to make this team better.

Nothing that man does from here on out will make you happy.

Lehner is at or near top 5 among STARTING goalies in save percentage and all anyone wants to do is b!tch about the pick Murray gave up. This team gives up the most shots in the league, and the kid keeps us in most games, but it's the first round pick, the first round pick, the first round pick.

At least he's trying to make us better. You can't hang on to every player you draft.
- Powerslave

Really showed that at the deadline.

Exactly. Have them here last year instead of ROR and Kane and we have Laine or Matthews right now. With guys like White or Roslovic or Samsanov in the system
- sbroads24

Kane finally starts to put it together, has a half season with the best goals per game average for a Sabre since Alex Mogilny, and all you want to do is hang onto draft picks and "hope" you finish last again so we have a chance at losing another lottery?

Good plan.

And I'll take O'Reilly over Compher, Zadorov and that other pos, Grigorenko, any day.

Now take out the 3 or 4 backup or non starting goalies and he's right where I said he was
- Powerslave

It's NHL.com, you can look at the lists yourself. There's no players with grossly less games played. They automatically eliminate the guys with 1, 2, 4 games played. There is no reason to believe the results will be that different.

Lehner was acquired with a first round pick trade. He will always have bias against him because of that. He didn't come up through this organization by earning his way and proving his worth. He didn't cut his teeth in Rochester. He was hand picked by GMTM and had that value placed on him. You know Tim Murray comes from that wildly successful franchise tree called the Ottawa Senators. Everyone in hockey wants to become the Ottawa Senators. And now we have a goalie who doesn't have the skill set to stop a breakway or shootout attempt, and has a five hole the size of the tear in the Oroville dam to show for it.

Really showed that at the deadline.
- sbroads24

That's all you have? No one wanted Kulikov. Afraid of his injury. Murray said this. Or are you being selective with Murray's quotes to prove YOUR point?

Kane finally starts to put it together, has a half season with the best goals per game average for a Sabre since Alex Mogilny, and all you want to do is hang onto draft picks and "hope" you finish last again so we have a chance at losing another lottery?

Good plan.

And I'll take O'Reilly over Compher, Zadorov and that other pos, Grigorenko, any day.
- Powerslave

And look how fantastic we are in our 2 seasons with Kane and O'Reilly. Maybe by the time Kane's contract expires we won't be a bottom 10 team.

It's NHL.com, you can look at the lists yourself. There's no players with grossly less games played. They automatically eliminate the guys with 1, 2, 4 games played. There is no reason to believe the results will be that different.

Lehner was acquired with a first round pick trade. He will always have bias against him because of that. He didn't come up through this organization by earning his way and proving his worth. He didn't cut his teeth in Rochester. He was hand picked by GMTM and had that value placed on him. You know Tim Murray comes from that wildly successful franchise tree called the Ottawa Senators. Everyone in hockey wants to become the Ottawa Senators. And now we have a goalie who doesn't have the skill set to stop a breakway or shootout attempt, and has a five hole the size of the tear in the Oroville dam to show for it.
- Buffalo--Sabres

Alternative goalie facts

Kane finally starts to put it together, has a half season with the best goals per game average for a Sabre since Alex Mogilny, and all you want to do is hang onto draft picks and "hope" you finish last again so we have a chance at losing another lottery?

Good plan.

And I'll take O'Reilly over Compher, Zadorov and that other pos, Grigorenko, any day.
- Powerslave

Ryan O'Reilly makes more than all of these guys combined. You forget there is a value placed on them, that is leveraged against you in the form of a salary cap.

I have a friend who just bought some special edition Jeep Grand Cherokee Hemi. Sweet ass truck. But all he does is brag about it and post pics online. "Oh it's so fast. It just rips through the snow. Blah blah blah". But his payment is $600 a month(and it's used, ugh)! He got an awful deal for himself. Yes if you separate the cost vs the results the vehicle can churn out today, ok cool. But only if you can ignore the bigger picture. Yeah my truck isn't as sweet or as fast, but if my sump pump and dishwasher crap out the same week and can just pay cash to replace them. He can't pretend that $600 a month payment doesn't hurt him somewhere else.

Point being: Eichel is ours hopefully forever. We could be sitting in the basement of the league while Eichel learns the NHL game just the same with ROR as we could without.

It's NHL.com, you can look at the lists yourself. There's no players with grossly less games played. They automatically eliminate the guys with 1, 2, 4 games played. There is no reason to believe the results will be that different.

Lehner was acquired with a first round pick trade. He will always have bias against him because of that. He didn't come up through this organization by earning his way and proving his worth. He didn't cut his teeth in Rochester. He was hand picked by GMTM and had that value placed on him. You know Tim Murray comes from that wildly successful franchise tree called the Ottawa Senators. Everyone in hockey wants to become the Ottawa Senators. And now we have a goalie who doesn't have the skill set to stop a breakway or shootout attempt, and has a five hole the size of the tear in the Oroville dam to show for it.
- Buffalo--Sabres

Here's a stat for you. Eliminate 8-10 shots a game that he has to face, and I bet that equals half a goal against. It's not the goalie. It's the sh!t defense, which IS on Murray.

And you hit it on the head. It's the bias. Unfair bias. No one can look past it. All anyone wants to talk about is a late first round pick that will more than likely turn out to be, at best, a 2nd line player. I'd rather take my chances with a starting goalie than a 2nd liner.

And the shootout needs to go. Not because our goalie is terrible. Because it's a gimmick for 12 year olds.

Ryan O Rielly has a bit of that in him but I agree about the other players. Crazy poop happens tho, and you have to hope to bemefit from it. Maybe someone in the west will demand a trade preferably to the East ? Maybe Kovalchuck wants to be a Sabre when he comes back?
- Larsson_fan

Too Russian.