My point is that 90,9, and 40 weren't once in a lifetime gets. But Murray treated them as such.

We were better off taking a slow approach to the rebuild.

Who do you think is worth more right now to acquire a D man, Colin White or Lehner?

He sort of bungled the first 2 years here, and is paying for it now
- sbroads24

Why is this even a question?

There are so many options that we can explore, it seems odd you would focus on this one.

I think it will take more.

Hopefully the first and something like Girgs or Larsson or even Foligno.

But maybe 23.
- Der Kaiser

saying 23 is sacrilege to a lot of people. there is no difference maker without him.

From the Pens blogger -

"The Buffalo Sabres have some nice pieces up front. They have two very good centers in Jack Eichel and Ryan O’Reilly. They both scored goals in the first period. However, they can’t do it all. The Sabres lack functional depth and their defense corp. is not good enough for them to find regular success. Too many of their players are asked to be in a role above what they can handle. None more glaring than Rasmus Ristolainen. He isn’t a top pairing defender at the present moment (or maybe ever), but that is how the Sabres deploy him. He routinely plays out of his own end and last night was no exception. He needs a sheltered role on a team that cannot afford to give him one. Penguins fans should be able to understand this situation. They have seen firsthand how deployment can impact a player with Justin Schultz. The former Oiler went through similar growing pains until he was able to be thrust into a more appropriate role with the Penguins."
- sbroads24

Thanks for sharing. This is spot on. That's why we've seen Risto start out like a beast who looked like he would thrive as an offensive defensemen and regress into what he is now.

As I said, I get the point you are making and can agree on being able to keep all the top end 2015 draft picks.

Not sure which once in a lifetime get was out there. Subban? Shea Weber?
- kingcong39

No once in a lifetime player gets traded. That's my point. There will be more ROR or Kane's, and 10 Lehner's.

We'd been better off bottoming out 1 more year, using most of our picks in a stacked 15 draft, then trading down the line.

No thanks to GMTM throwing around 1st rounders that we had accumulated.
- mattsox

Question for the group: if this team had a true 2nd pair defense that was at least decent, would they be in the playoff picture right now?

A large part of me thinks they would be.

Call up Nylander for a few games to be sure, but I would be offering the 2017 1st & Nylander as a starting point.

I know, I know regarding that, but the need for defense is so profoundly obvious and if it comes down to either Reinhart or Nylander going, well, that decision is EASY.
- kingcong39

He is and absolutely should be viewed as a very impactful player. Not saying he can't be used in a package. But fans should not under value him because of his 18 year old 1st pro season. He's going to be very, very good.

Is it just me or is the defense worse when everyone is healthy?
- Buffalo--Sabres

much worse

I would take falk and fedun any day over bog, kulikov and gorges

Goalie numbers along the Eichel split (numbers done by hand, so forgive any mistakes, they should all be pretty accurate though)



Lehner Pre-Eichel: 460 Shots Against, 424 Saves, .922 Save %, roughly 2.40 GAA (15 full games, 2 were Shootouts, 1 OT)

Lehner Post-Eichel: 1045 Shots Against, 964 Saves, .922 Save %, roughly 2.58 GAA (29.5 games)


Nilsson Pre-Eichel: 217 Shots Against, 205 Saves, .945 Save %, roughly 1.96 GAA (6 games, 2 went into OT)

Nilsson Post-Eichel: 520 Shots Against, 473 Saves, .910 Save %, roughly 3.13 GAA (14 2/3 games)

Question for the group: if this team had a true 2nd pair defense that was at least decent, would they be in the playoff picture right now?

A large part of me thinks they would be.
- kingcong39

I was just going to bring this up. If we had a rock solid Tallinder/Lydman combo to lock down the second pair all of our other decisions would be SO much easier to focus on. And to answer your question, I can't say definitely yes, but I would have a lot more confidence that we would be in a batter position.

saying 23 is sacrilege to a lot of people. there is no difference maker without him.
- rover16

I don't agree at all.

Start with the 2017 1st & Nylander and build from there.

Yes, you won't get an OEL or a Lindholm with that, but you might get a Brodin, Ellis, Montour, or Theodore with that.

Question for the group: if this team had a true 2nd pair defense that was at least decent, would they be in the playoff picture right now?

A large part of me thinks they would be.
- kingcong39

What this team needs is for every defender to be 1-2 spots better than they are now.

Thanks for sharing. This is spot on. That's why we've seen Risto start out like a beast who looked like he would thrive as an offensive defensemen and regress into what he is now.
- Buffalo--Sabres

It is no coincidence that he has begun the last two seasons on fire but then his play has diminished as the season has gone along and the effect of all those minutes piled up.

Thanks for sharing. This is spot on. That's why we've seen Risto start out like a beast who looked like he would thrive as an offensive defensemen and regress into what he is now.
- Buffalo--Sabres

He was tired yesterday. That wasn't to bash him as much as it is to point out he's way over used, and in a bad role

He is and absolutely should be viewed as a very impactful player. Not saying he can't be used in a package. But fans should not under value him because of his 18 year old 1st pro season. He's going to be very, very good.
- TheSabresTaco

I agree on what you think he will become, but the team needs defense so badly that unless a team is completely being crushed by the expansion draft, they are going to need to trade the 1st this year and somebody like him to get what they need back.

The only reason Bogosian is number 1 on my list of those to offload is due to the cost and length of his deal.
- kingcong39

To me, the only time a contract cost or term hurts you is when it prohibits you from getting someone else. So the cost of Bogo doesn't bother as it does others. Not my money.

It is no coincidence that he has begun the last two seasons on fire but then his play has diminished as the season has gone along and the effect of all those minutes piled up.
- kingcong39

Yep. It's like any player that's leaned on too heavily in a poopty situation.

A 4th was offered I heard and it was turned down.
- SABRES 89

CC bandit and Stash

He was tired yesterday. That wasn't to bash him as much as it is to point out he's way over used, and in a bad role
- sbroads24

still played relatively well imo

To me, the only time a contract cost or term hurts you is when it prohibits you from getting someone else. So the cost of Bogo doesn't bother as it does others. Not my money.
- jzabawa

Great point

He was tired yesterday. That wasn't to bash him as much as it is to point out he's way over used, and in a bad role
- sbroads24

It is amazing to me how he has held up the past two seasons playing as many minutes as he has at his age.

I don't agree at all.

Start with the 2017 1st & Nylander and build from there.

Yes, you won't get an OEL or a Lindholm with that, but you might get a Brodin, Ellis, Montour, or Theodore with that.
- kingcong39

2017 1st and nylander probably gets you something inbetween lindholm and that second group of Brodin and co.

2017 1st and nylander probably gets you something inbetween lindholm and that second group of Brodin and co.
- Sabresfan-365

2017 1st for Manson?

I doubt you'd need to add more than that.

EDIT:

he is a RHD though.

still played relatively well imo
- Sabresfan-365

I have to admit it was A LOT more fun watching games when many of first joined this site nearly 10 years ago, when there were little to no advanced stats and we didn't have to worry who was playing better despite being up 2 or 3 goals on the scoreboard.

Analytics, at least for me, have taken a good bit of fun out of the game.

2017 1st and nylander probably gets you something inbetween lindholm and that second group of Brodin and co.
- Sabresfan-365

While I don't like giving up Nylander, the need is so clear that if it takes the above, I'd do it.

2017 1st for Manson?

I doubt you'd need to add more than that.
- thatsapickle

I think we should stop trading 1st. We need steady pipeline of talent every year. Hopefully next year its Guhle in a 3rd pairing role and possibly Nylander (i don't think he will be ready)