Without the enforcer in the lineup it could have been worse. The Jets have their fair share of knuckle draggers so why no combat it. They might have taken runs and the Pens all night long Things seemed to cool down after Terrible Tommy struck
- holeinone

4 goal murray almost showed up.

I honestly don't think Dumo is going to be that expensive. Cap-wise - Letang at 7, Schultz around 4, Maatta a little over 4, and Dumo around 3 is what I think it's going to be.
- j.boyd919

This sounds reasonable to me too.

Bill Masterson died as a result of a clean hit. Blake Geoffrion had to retire because he shattered his skull on a clean hit.

Please show me the players who died and had near-death experiences as a result of a hockey fight.

I agree two goons fighting to show who's a better goon is stupid. But 2 legit players fighting based on emotion is okay with me.
- jmatchett383

Deryck Boogaard was barely 30 and when they dissected his brain it was damage he had developed full pugilists dementia. He would have spent his 40's in a nursing home and died young no matter what.

First of all, I am not against fighting in the NHL, including stars fighting. However, regarding fighting, I support these general principles:

1. If you are going to do something, you should know how to do it and try to do it well.
2. Authenticity is important.

This applies to all areas of hockey.

The fact is that Malkin does not know how to fight and Wheeler knew this when he challenged him. Their fight was not a real fight - it just Malkin grappling and Wheeler seeing how many punches he could land before the refs broke it up. I guess it made Wheeler feel better to get some revenge. From a Pens fan standpoint this was mostly just boring but also concerning as I did not want to see Malkin injure himself. Still, Malkin looked better grappling than Semin did "playing the bongos" on Mark Staal years back.

The fight that followed was a real fight by two guys who both know how to fight. It was much more entertaining from a fan standpoint. The authenticity could have been increased if they were allowed to remove their helmets (to get the visors out of the way).

At the same time, unlike with goal scorers and playmakers, where, when when you look for the "best of the best" you get guys like Crosby and Ovi, when you look for the "best of the best" fighters you get guys like Boogaard and Probert - guys who can blur the distinction between a hockey game and the Roman Coliseum (and who shared the fate of nearly all gladiators of Ancient Rome - they died young). I would like to think that our society has evolved past the point where watching two guys trying to seriously kill each other is viewed as entertainment . Drawing the line between an entertaining and real fight and a serious/dangerous fight is not always easy.

Still, as a Pens fan I can't help enjoying seeing this - Boogaard laying out Trevor Gillies with an uppercut:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twhTyv0TvB0

I remember Asham KOing Beagle. Pretty sad

I honestly don't think Dumo is going to be that expensive. Cap-wise - Letang at 7, Schultz around 4, Maatta a little over 4, and Dumo around 3 is what I think it's going to be.
- j.boyd919

I don't know. With Vegas coming in and needing to fill a roster and having all the cap room in the world I think the market is gonna be overpriced as can be this year. Both Dumo and Shultz are RFAs but Vegas can sign them without giving the pens anything I believe. So for all we know Vegas will offer Schultz and Dumo way more than they are worth (like the caps with Orpik and Niskanen) and the pens lose them for nothing.

Deryck Boogaard was barely 30 and when they dissected his brain it was damage he had developed full pugilists dementia. He would have spent his 40's in a nursing home and died young no matter what.
- Dcoms

I can list many others that have lived normal everyday lives after repeated physical contact.

Besides what else did Boogard do outside of hockey? There are stories out there.

I don't know. With Vegas coming in and needing to fill a roster and having all the cap room in the world I think the market is gonna be overpriced as can be this year. Both Dumo and Shultz are RFAs but Vegas can sign them without giving the pens anything I believe. So for all we know Vegas will offer Schultz and Dumo way more than they are worth (like the caps with Orpik and Niskanen) and the pens lose them for nothing.
- Zac_O

I can't speak for Dumo, but I just don't see Schultz taking the money to go to a team that will undoubtedly struggle for a few years. He saw firsthand what happened trying to play for a bad Edmonton team. I'm not saying he stays with the Pens for sure (I think he will though), but if he leaves I think it will be for a contender or a team close to contending. He'll have no shortage of teams interested in signing him.

I don't know. With Vegas coming in and needing to fill a roster and having all the cap room in the world I think the market is gonna be overpriced as can be this year. Both Dumo and Shultz are RFAs but Vegas can sign them without giving the pens anything I believe. So for all we know Vegas will offer Schultz and Dumo way more than they are worth (like the caps with Orpik and Niskanen) and the pens lose them for nothing.
- Zac_O

I see no reason to include expansion stuff because we really have no clue on how the team or the Nhl is handling that situation. Im just speaking strictly from a numbers perspective

For the record, please don't lump all Flyers fans together.
- jmatchett383

Keep em separated by delicious fried steak chee and wiz!

Deryck Boogaard was barely 30 and when they dissected his brain it was damage he had developed full pugilists dementia. He would have spent his 40's in a nursing home and died young no matter what.
- Dcoms

The list of goons who completed suicide is longer than that and I'm a fan of reducing fighting but suicide is the 10 ranked cause of death in the us and statistically NHL players will complete suicide at a certain percentage.

Deryck Boogaard was barely 30 and when they dissected his brain it was damage he had developed full pugilists dementia. He would have spent his 40's in a nursing home and died young no matter what.
- Dcoms

Okay then. Legal body checks can lead to death more often than fights and fights can lead to a deteriorated life style more often than legal body checks. Still both horrible.

The list of goons who completed suicide is longer than that and I'm a fan of reducing fighting but suicide is the 10 ranked cause of death in the us and statistically NHL players will complete suicide at a certain percentage.
- ChrisMS

Funny, I dated a girl who's 24-year-old brother overdosed on oxycodone, the same cause of death of Derek Boogaard. I didn't know that girl's brother was a former NHl enforcer.

Maybe the doctor who was illegalling prescribing the drugs to him had something to do with it too. That's probably why charges were brought against him.

No one is saying that fighting in the NHL, or anywhere, is good for your health. Players may not have known the extent of damage that was being done, but any sensible person knows that repeatedly being punched is not good for your health. I'm not saying they're to blame for their situations, but at the same time, this was the profession and role they chose. Now that new information is available, the players in today's game should be well aware of what repeated head trauma can lead to and draw their own conclusions about whether or not they want to fight.

Sorry Gunner, but your repeated insistence on this point of enforcers supposedly going to 'deter' anything is the most moronic thing here.

Sportsmen have a respect for each other in a game that has its traditions - without its tradition & history, the game is so much more soul less. It's the rich history & tradition that gives champions like Gordie Howe legend status - are you all for getting rid of the term, "Gordie Howe hatrick"?

Some players play it clean & without heavy contact (some without contact at all - looking at you Jaromir! ), but others hit hard & some even fight - it's all part of the game. (frank), even Sid threw them down against Dubinsky - (frank)ing BAD SID!!!!

But your continued insistence about beating the decaying horse that is the 'deter' factor makes no sense. Everyone knows no player deters anything, if player A wants to take out player B he will, no matter if player C is on the ice. The instigator rule has basically killed off any sort of retribution by fighting.

All that Sestito did was throw a hit that was 'probably' just a show of "hey look at me you (frank)ers I'm here" - & then the refs went over to him & said "now you need to disappear!". It didn't stop (as much as it appears), anything, & I think everyone agrees that it didn't or wouldn't.

We all agree with you that no one deters anything, so please let's put it to bed & stop beating the poop out of it!

The Winipeg guys were probably playing paper scissors rock to see who was going to have the pleasure of fighting Sestito - gave them a free pass to fight, just what they needed!!

I see no reason to include expansion stuff because we really have no clue on how the team or the Nhl is handling that situation. Im just speaking strictly from a numbers perspective
- j.boyd919

No reason to talk about free agency market when talking about free agents?

I can't speak for Dumo, but I just don't see Schultz taking the money to go to a team that will undoubtedly struggle for a few years. He saw firsthand what happened trying to play for a bad Edmonton team. I'm not saying he stays with the Pens for sure (I think he will though), but if he leaves I think it will be for a contender or a team close to contending. He'll have no shortage of teams interested in signing him.
- mw630

Didn't he originally not sign with the ducks to play for the Oilers (for more money)? Or do you think he learned his lesson?

The list of goons who completed suicide is longer than that and I'm a fan of reducing fighting but suicide is the 10 ranked cause of death in the us and statistically NHL players will complete suicide at a certain percentage.
- ChrisMS

The highest rate of suicide in the US is middle aged white men. Aka 99.99% of what retired or failed NHL players are.

No reason to talk about free agency market when talking about free agents?
- Zac_O

It's just too difficult to speculate anything about expansion. Whether they go 8 skaters, or 7f-3d, it's just too difficult. I think discussing numbers for RFAs is much easier than trying to play the guessing game on who they protect, who they dont, who vegas signs, and picks, etc.

It's just too difficult to speculate anything about expansion. Whether they go 8 skaters, or 7f-3d, it's just too difficult. I think discussing numbers for RFAs is much easier than trying to play the guessing game on who they protect, who they dont, who vegas signs, and picks, etc.
- j.boyd919

But Vegas wouldn't need to pick them in the draft. They can just outright sign them and more teams means more bidding wars meaning more overpaying. Vegas just posted on about how they dont need to use every player they draft in the NHL, they can send them to the AHL affiliate they set up. Also that free agents are pretty much guaranteed starting spots.

OMG get a life RW. if it were up to you hockey would be a no contact sport. fights are cool. this game was cool. everything except the sestito hit.

but i wouldnt expect anything else from a liberal.

i will say RW called out bonino the other blog and look who showed up.

weird that we score 7 goals and Sid only gets one point.

and yes malkin is so much fun to watch and so are fights. get over it. just cause you say something 467 times doesnt make it true. other people have opinions that matter too. just cause you say "the code is dead" doesnt make it true. we saw that last night.

i agree that enforcers dont deter anything bc hockey players are not a bunch of pansies. so they are not scared of the gorillas.

quit whining. you just wrote a whole blog the encompassed a bunch of whining and nothing about the exciting game that took place.

Ok enough of this. We are giving the mods to much work. haha


I have an honest question, I really want to keep Dumo and Schultz. How can that be done within the salary cap and still add to other key aspects of the team? What kind of deals will they realistically ask for each? I think Maatta might need to be gone to make it happen.

Another question, Fleury is gone after this year. Best free agent option for a back up to Murray? I'd personally keep Jarry getting lots of starts in the AHL to help him develop.
- Zac_O

We have a silly amount of cap room This offseason. Scuderi off the books. Daley gone. Fleury gone probably save a little there even with Murray salary bump next year. Cap is expected to go up $3 million. Thing is every year Crosby, kessel, malkin, and letang cap hits stay the same while the cap keeps going up. That means each year we have a couple more dollars for the second tier guys. Dumo probably takes Daleys money. The cap increase plus Schultz currently salary will be about 4.5 so he takes cap increase. Scuderi plus fleury savings go to sheary. We might run into problems paying a legit 3c. We also might lose hagelin or horn to expansion.

I wander if Colorado could be interested in horn + maatta for Barrie or one of their forwards. A trade like that could help us for the salary cap and expansion draft.

I also forgot Kunitz is ufa so his money could go to sheary. All honesty if we lose a salary to expansion we may be looking at having a pot of money to spend on a ufa or trade target. Regardless how the playoffs go I expect us to make some moves since we should have cap room and we held onto our 1st.

I can't speak for Dumo, but I just don't see Schultz taking the money to go to a team that will undoubtedly struggle for a few years. He saw firsthand what happened trying to play for a bad Edmonton team. I'm not saying he stays with the Pens for sure (I think he will though), but if he leaves I think it will be for a contender or a team close to contending. He'll have no shortage of teams interested in signing him.
- mw630

Schultz is going to end up getting good money. Cap up $3 million this year supposedly plus vegas I'm guessing spends $60 so I do expect UFA guys to Be pricey. I agree on Schultz I don't see him interested in 6-8 years of misery for $45 million.

But Vegas wouldn't need to pick them in the draft. They can just outright sign them and more teams means more bidding wars meaning more overpaying. Vegas just posted on about how they dont need to use every player they draft in the NHL, they can send them to the AHL affiliate they set up. Also that free agents are pretty much guaranteed starting spots.
- Zac_O

If vegas signs one of the RFA's I believe it counts against their expansion pick.

Let me just say this...Fighting is the only reason I watch this board on Hockeybuzz. If you take the fighting away, I'm switching boards.

Didn't he originally not sign with the ducks to play for the Oilers (for more money)? Or do you think he learned his lesson?
- Zac_O

That's exactly what he did at the beginning and it nearly screwed up his career. It's strictly a guess, but I'm thinking he learned from it. I'm not saying he stays for sure with the Pens, but I think if he were to leave, it would be for a good/up and coming team. Any expansion team that isn't relocating with an NHL roster already (like the Avs did) is going to struggle for a few years.